Female Friendzone?

[TakeyB0y2]

Well I do have this one awkward friend who finds herself having crushes on guys, but often times she's too shy to make the first move, and when she does they reject her saying they think she's just a good friend and they don't want to take it further.

Soooo, yeah, I'd say it can happen to women too.

 

[tahrey]

Well, I've managed to FZ at least two girls ... one on purpose as she was massively freaking me out ... the other entirely on purpose, if you can believe that O_O

Yeah, 10+ years later I still kick myself over it, as - if nothing else - we could have had some fun for a while. As it is, we're still good pals, but any chance of romance went down like the titanic thanks to a couple of hesitant missteps on my part when she was otherwise all for it, and there's no likelihood it'd ever resurface. At this point it'd just be weird.

(The other young lady, well, we lost touch not that long after, so I think we can determine at least part of her motivation...)

 

[Rascarin]

I've been friendzoned by a guy before. But then he turned out to be gay, so that may have been a factor.

Then I turned out to be gay too, so I expect the whole thing was doomed from the start.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

Hey, I just realized, I friendzoned(not really a better word for it) a girl once, for three very good reasons. One, she had idealized me when I helped her with a very personal emotional problem caused by some trauma I will not discuss here. I was smart, I was helpful, but I was also a cynical train wreck of a teenager with very little in the way of social skills. Two, I was not attracted to her in a physical way(I was a shallow teenager, just like everyone else). I also considered our emotional relationship as less of a romantic one and more of a, not friendship, more than that I'd say, almost like a surrogate brother/sister thing. Finally, I was kind of oblivious.

 

[ellieallegro]

- Saying that a person puts themselves in the friendzone is false, because the friendzone is simply unrequited feelings (not love). You CANNOT help who you fall in love with and you CANNOT just shut that love off the second the other party says 'no' to get yourself "out of the friendzone". Emotions don't work that way.

Couldn't disagree more. People put themselves in this made up bullshit state of the "friendzone" Saying you can't control who you fall in love with is a culturally romantic trope that people really need to get over along with the blind adherence to the social construction of gender and sexuality (I'm fine with social construction of roles as long as people recognize they are arbitrary and don't act like they are one size fits all). Unrequited love does not exist: It is great in the context of a fantasy like a dramatic movie, play or similar media to heighten the drama and function as cultural shorthand in the narrative. Real love does not work this way. Love is a reciprocation of intellectual, emotional and physical by all parties involved.

When people say they have been friendzoned, what they really mean to say is party A has initial feelings of lust, attraction or pheromones (whatever you want to call it), "chemistry" if you will and party B doesn't have or return those feelings. It's nothing personal. Either you are initially attracted to a person (and their chemistry) or you are not. Love has nothing to do with it. Anything else is just a sad justification for not being honest with yourself and putting your own bullshit on to someone else. Nosce te ipsum.

Yes I have been put in this mythical 'friend zone' by definition.

Totally my own fault, and the 'friendzone' is a bunch of bullshit. If friendship is not enough for you. Act. Otherwise appreciate what you have.

If you try to justify your own inability to face your feelings you are a coward. Nothing else. A C-o-w-a-r-d. And no, giving her/him gifts and favors does not equate to 'you now owe me your undying love and attentions. Until you make it clear otherwise, you are friends. Proper friends do not work on a 'I did this for you now you owe me this' system.

This, precisely. Having friends is a good thing. If you see the world as broken down into people who owe you for being their friend and people you want (and should want you) to bone then I pity you.

 

[Vegosiux]

Couldn't disagree more. People put themselves in this made up bullshit state of the "friendzone" Saying you can't control who you fall in love with is a culturally romantic trope that people really need to get over along with the blind adherence to the social construction of gender and sexuality (I'm fine with social construction of roles as long as people recognize they are arbitrary and don't act like they are one size fits all). Unrequited love does not exist: It is great in the context of a fantasy like a dramatic movie, play or similar media to heighten the drama and function as cultural shorthand in the narrative. Real love does not work this way. Love is a reciprocation of intellectual, emotional and physical by all parties involved.

Excuse me, what? The post you quoted speaks about "feelings/emotions", not "love". Okay, it uses the word once, but by just (re)defining "love" to not include whatever a "friendzoned" person feels doesn't exactly change anything in reality...

I mean, really, when you're shot at after you've willingly exposed yourself and took a risk, that sucks. No amount of "Walk it off, you pussy" is going to change the fact that it sucks and no amount of "Walk it off, you pussy" is going to be reasonable advice. People need to cope in their own way, not the way you think they should, and some people need more time to come to terms with it. Hell, they might even need to confide in someone they can trust won't tell them "Walk it off, you pussy."

When people say they have been friendzoned, what they really mean to say is party A has initial feelings of lust, attraction or pheromones (whatever you want to call it), "chemistry" if you will and party B doesn't have or return those feelings. It's nothing personal. Either you are initially attracted to a person (and their chemistry) or you are not. Love has nothing to do with it. Anything else is just a sad justification for not being honest with yourself and putting your own bullshit on to someone else.

I am increasingly convinced this kind of reasoning exist more as one's attempt at reinforcing their own self-image than actual application to reality, or advice/sharing a point of view, if you will. Basically, folks call people "sad" because that makes them feel better about themselves.

Nosce te ipsum.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

This, precisely. Having friends is a good thing. If you see the world as broken down into people who owe you for being their friend and people you want (and should want you) to bone then I pity you.

Mhm...well, hypothetically, that's of course correct. I just wonder what concrete, real situation you mean; or is this another one of those "reinforcing my own self-image" lines, when you say out loud how you pity a vague, undefined other, which you are better than.

 

[the December King]

It really boils down to, it's hard to deal with rejection. To feeling rejection from someone you have feelings for, and to having to reject someone, especially knowing that you could lose them as a friend. Somehow it can seem better to not ask, to stay in the dark.

The friendzone seems to have been created to shield the hurt/unrequited feelings of the not-quite-dumped. Gender has nothing to do with it, in my opinion, although the means to end up in this position (almost rejected, or in avoidance of being outright rejected) vary.

I don't think people who actually have stepped forward and made a move on the one they fancied, were rejected, and then chose to stay that person's friend are in the friendzone, unless they secretly believe that something could still come of it all. They are now friends.

 

[Weaver]

"this person isnt rejecting me because something is wrong with me, they are rejecting me because im too right for them and they only want someone who is bad for them."

Who the hell thinks like this?
When a girl rejects me all I dwell on is how hideous I must be, how I must be a social misfit, how hard it is for me to talk to people. Maybe I should work out more? Are my clothes ragged? Maybe I should buy some new clothes, that might help a bit. Yeah, I'll go shopping tomorrow.

What if my breath is bad? Maybe I shouldn't drink so much coffee. Should carry mints from now on? Maybe my teeth are crooked! Was it my hair? God I hate my hair. etc.

This is a small snippet of things that run through my head.

 

[quysspe]

So, I was thinking... The internet seems to be completely full to the brim with guys who have been put in the "friendzone", this relationship Limbo where a girl you like only thinks of you as a friend.

I just realized that I've hardly ever seen any girls talk/complain about being in the friendzone when it comes to their guy friends, so I was just wondering whether this is less common.

I mean if a guy has a lot of chick buddies, surely that chick has at least One guy buddy, and since supposedly "girls and guys can't be friends", the "Fall-In-Love-With-Friend"-Meter must come up on the female side once in a while...

So Ladies of the escapist, have you ever been put in the "friendzone"?
And to everyone else, (females included of course) How do you think the division of One party of a male/female friendship ending up in love with the other is looking?
Do Guys just have an easier time falling for their Chick buddies?
Or do they just complain about it on the internet more?

Nope. Only people the internet hates (ie, attractive women) are capable of friend-zoning people.

 

[ellieallegro]

Excuse me, what? The post you quoted speaks about "feelings/emotions", not "love". Okay, it uses the word once, but by just (re)defining "love" to not include whatever a "friendzoned" person feels doesn't exactly change anything in reality...

Actually the poster uses the term unrequited love more than once and that is what I was referring to and disagreeing with. You will notice I didn't disparage the poster. I'm simply disagreeing that unrequited love is a concept that exists outside of cultural tropes.

I mean, really, when you're shot at after you've willingly exposed yourself and took a risk, that sucks. No amount of "Walk it off, you pussy" is going to change the fact that it sucks and no amount of "Walk it off, you pussy" is going to be reasonable advice. People need to cope in their own way, not the way you think they should, and some people need more time to come to terms with it. Hell, they might even need to confide in someone they can trust won't tell them "Walk it off, you pussy."

Way to distill what you think is my argument into crass gendered language. I not saying rejection doesn't suck, I'm only suggesting people make way more of it than it actually is. If you actually stop and reflect about it, being rejected is a good thing because it frees you up to pursue other people and not pine away like a hormonal teenager.

I am increasingly convinced this kind of reasoning exist more as one's attempt at reinforcing their own self-image than actual application to reality, or advice/sharing a point of view, if you will. Basically, folks call people "sad" because that makes them feel better about themselves.

In fact, it does make me feel better that I can carry myself with a little dignity and self-respect. Why wouldn't it?

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

Te audire non possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.

Mhm...well, hypothetically, that's of course correct. I just wonder what concrete, real situation you mean; or is this another one of those "reinforcing my own self-image" lines, when you say out loud how you pity a vague, undefined other, which you are better than.

I mean what I say. I know and have known people in my life who subscribe to this "Peter Pan/Cinderella" everyone should want to bone me cause I'm awesome complex and I have what I think are friends but they are really just people who I use and get used in return by. To answer your question, yes I feel sorry for those people because I AM better than them in that respect. Then again, I live in Los Angeles so YMMV.

 

[barbzilla]

I've fancied friends before but I've never considered myself as being in "the friendzone".
Either I asked them out and they said yes/no or I said nothing and was content with being friends.

The friendzone is something you do to yourself. Usually when you pretend to care about someone as a friend so you can get in their pants.

I don't think I've ever met a girl who had friend zoned themselves, I'm sure it happens though.

I have to disagree on the Friendzone being something you do to yourself. Then again I have a different definition of "Friendzone" than most people do. I think being friendzoned means you have opened yourself up to one of your friends about your feelings (or have been upfront since the beginning)and they decided to string you along. They usually use the, lets just be "Friends" for now line and take advantage of your feelings to get someone to take them out, or do other things for them.

I do understand where you are coming from though. There is still an element of self involved in the situation. Even in my definition you can opt to stop being friends with someone who would take advantage of you, but I don't think it is something you do to yourself. If you just haven't had the balls (ovaries) to ask, then you are torturing yourself, but you haven't been placed in the "Friendzone" until you get the phrase "Lets just be friends".

 

[barbzilla]

Way to distill what you think is my argument into crass gendered language. I not saying rejection doesn't suck, I'm only suggesting people make way more of it than it actually is. If you actually stop and reflect about it, being rejected is a good thing because it frees you up to pursue other people and not pine away like a hormonal teenager.

This depends on the situation. If you are talking about a lust based attraction, or even a minor romantic attraction, then you are correct. Getting an upfront answer and moving on is the easiest and (often) best solution. That being said, when you have strong emotional ties to this person, for whatever reason, it isn't a case of ask and move forward. This could literally be a situation where the asking can affect the path your life takes past that point. I won't say that this is the more common scenario, as I am sure that we are mostly talking about awkward young men/women who don't have a great deal of experience with the opposite sex in general, but there are occasions where people either meet under extreme circumstances (usually leading to very strong adrenaline based chemical connections with said person) or may have realized that the person they have been friends with their whole life also happens to be the person they love (long term emotional connection leading to strong chemical dependance in the brain connected with said person). In those situations, there is no getting it over with quickly.

Where I do agree with you, is that no matter the situation it is better to just confront the situation than it is to wonder what could have been. I have lost a friend from asking, and I have gained a wonderful fiance from asking, but the point being I won't ever sit around and wonder what would have happened. I know, and that resolution helps me to lead a healthier lifestyle.

Te audire non possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.

You have a what in your ear? I don't recognize the word.

 

[Vegosiux]

Actually the poster uses the term unrequited love more than once and that is what I was referring to and disagreeing with. You will notice I didn't disparage the poster. I'm simply disagreeing that unrequited love is a concept that exists outside of cultural tropes.

Still a semantic argument. Simply calling something a different name doesn't change its substance.

Way to distill what you think is my argument into crass gendered language. I not saying rejection doesn't suck, I'm only suggesting people make way more of it than it actually is. If you actually stop and reflect about it, being rejected is a good thing because it frees you up to pursue other people and not pine away like a hormonal teenager.

Rejection? I wasn't talking about that. I was taking about "getting shot when you've willingly exposed yourself, took a risk". That's more than just mere "rejection". Rejection is easy to deal with, we all deal with it on a daily basis, every time we hear "No" about anything. The plumber telling you "I can't come tomorrow to fix your leak" is rejection, for instance.

Getting your, for lack of a better neutral expression, intimate interest, shot down is an entirely different thing, because rejection isn't all there is to it. Especially if the shooting down was done in vague, loose terms, it's the confusion that causes problems, not necessarily rejection. That's why I'm personally in favor about being clear about one's intentions, by the way, and in favor of asking, in case you get told the "friends" line, "Alright, what would that involve then?" Then if they can't provide an answer that isn't full of more evasive vagueness, walking away for a while. "Friends" is not something you use as a placeholder for "I don't really know and/or care what kind of a relationship I want with you, I just know I don't want the exact same kind you expressed interest in."

In fact, it does make me feel better that I can carry myself with a little dignity and self-respect. Why wouldn't it?

Self-respect and dignity are something that are not dependent on other people. You have self-respect regardless of whether or not Johnny next door has any. I'm uncertain what the purpose of convincing others that you have self-respect is, because if you have any, that's readily apparent from your behavior (not at first glance, but after a while it's easy to tell who's faking it) and does not need to be explicitly stated.

Te audire non possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.

Yes, I figured. Might want to get rid of that obstruction.

I mean what I say. I know and have known people in my life who subscribe to this "Peter Pan/Cinderella" everyone should want to bone me cause I'm awesome complex and I have what I think are friends but they are really just people who I use and get used in return by. To answer your question, yes I feel sorry for those people because I AM better than them in that respect. Then again, I live in Los Angeles so YMMV.

And I think it's sad when people can't feel good about themselves on their own merits. I mean, if the source of one's self-validation is external, then things aren't exactly optimal.

 

[Wraith]

snippity-do-dah

Clearly we have two differentiating views on love. However, I am going to stick with mine. I view love as any form of strong interpersonal attraction whether both parties feel it or not. As long as Person A feels a strong romantic attraction towards the other I WILL call it love. And if Person A's romantic feelings are not returned by Person B than it is unrequited. So yes, in my opinion, it does exist and it often leads to the friendzone scenario. Whether or not you believe it is an actual thing doesn't matter when it still happens regardless. People will love others that do not love them back the same way. It is here. It happens. Therefore it exists. [Something in Latin here]

 

[ellieallegro]

Still a semantic argument. Simply calling something a different name doesn't change its substance.

Actually, it does change its substance since all language is arbitrary and is made-up of signifiers that imbue meaning through our common and personal definitions. I define love one way and you and the poster below perhaps define it another way. Viewed through my lens the phrase 'unrequited love' has no significance or signifiers besides that of negation thus it naturally is anathema to my worldview.

Rejection? I wasn't talking about that. I was taking about "getting shot when you've willingly exposed yourself, took a risk". That's more than just mere "rejection". Snip.

To me they are the same: See signifiers. I suppose, I have never been so enamored with a person that we couldn't be friends after asking them where they stand either way it went. Agree to disagree here.

"Friends" is not something you use as a placeholder for "I don't really know and/or care what kind of a relationship I want with you, I just know I don't want the exact same kind you expressed interest in."

I agree with you here. 'Friends' is not a placeholder. If you somebody can't be clear with you about their feelings then they are probably not in the right space or the right person to be dating... (3rd person plural you). I always take any kind of vagueness or well, umm, maybe, I don't know, I'm really not looking to date right now, I just got out of a relationship, work is hectic, etc etc as a firm no and I don't bother to dwell or return to the subject.

And I think it's sad when people can't feel good about themselves on their own merits. I mean, if the source of one's self-validation is external, then things aren't exactly optimal.

And I welcome you to your opinion. Obviously, I hold my own accomplishments in higher regard but I think it's stupid and dishonest to not recognize that we compare ourselves to other people and rank ourselves accordingly. We should just be honest with ourselves as a society and indulge in a little schadenfreude now and again.

Clearly we have two differentiating views on love. Snip

Clearly. I'm sure for you it exists; however, to me it does not. Schrodinger's cat says, "agree to disagree".

 

[Something Amyss]

Usually when you pretend to care about someone as a friend so you can get in their pants.

To be honest, guys seem to want to get into the pants of their (ostensibly female) friends quite often regardless of the initial reason. The friend zone doesn't necessarily have anything to do with initial intent so much as with the butthurt response. I'm not saying every "friend zone" guy has pure intentions, but I'm pretty sure there are a lot of guys who aren't feigning friendship that end up bitter over the so-called placement.

People make convenient excuses for just about EVERYTHING. This is one used for a lot of reasons, including the refusal to look at yourself. I've known some real creeps who pull the "friend zone" excuse because they refuse to think that maybe those girls are okay with the guys as friends but not with the creepy way they behave when they're macking on someone.

 

[Therumancer]

A lot of people want to use this term differantly, but it has one specific meaning, with which it was created in pop culture and then moved on into real world use.

"The Friend Zone" is an ironic, negative, term for someone who pursues someone else with deceptive, sexual intent, but then gets frozen out without a direct rejection. The stereotype being two predatory dudes in a bar talking about their conquests and the girls they are chasing, and asking each other for status updates, and a failure without a crack up or rejection is "oh man, you got Friend Zoned... ouch!".

To put it bluntly if your okay with being someone's friend or that was the intent to begin with, then it's not really being "Friend Zoned" as the slang was intended to be used.

Whether the person being chased does it intentionally (being onto the person in question) or not (just not interested or getting it) is irrelevent. Typically in cases where it applies being "zoned" is a sign to move on and chase someone else.

In romantic comedies and such someone falling for someone they were pursueing and got "zoned" by (for all intents and purposes) is a typical plot, with differant variations based on whether it happened intentionally or not.

As far as whether guys and girls can just be friends, the answer to that is yes, without the issue of romatic rejection ever coming into it. To put it into a nerdy context, which I'm sure some people here might have had experience with, let's say your recruiting for a PnP RPG group, you put up a paper at the local hobby shop, social board, or whatever else looking for people to game with. A girl responds. This does not mean "OMG, there must be some romantic implications here, unless there is something wrong with her" just because, sometimes you just want someone to pursue a common interest with. Likewise sometimes in doing things like that, you wind up hanging out with girls (perhaps quite a bit) who are already with someone, or whatever else. RPG gaming can be replaced by any other interest where you meet or involve other people.

In general confusion on these subjects seems to mostly occur when your dealing with people who amazingly manage to be even more anti-social than me. You talk to co-workers, maybe hang out with some of them after work, meet people through hobbies or whatever, it's very easy to wind up with friends of the other gender where there was no romantic interest or intent at all. "Zoning" only applies in cases where there is a predatory ulterior motive to begin with.

As far as people making excuses about failures to pursue relationships, well I don't think most people are sociopathic enough to need some kind of blame reversing excuse or whateve as a matter of course. Usually when people get pissed about something like that, there is something more to it, like say a dude being lead on and then "zoned" knowing the guy is going to drift off once the girl gets what she wants. That tends to piss people off, and there is no real recourse for it... and of course there are men who use girls the same way.

In these discussions I notice a lot of people talking about teenage boys "not getting the signals" but the thing is that in a lot of cases they do get very intentional signals that are being sent, and being boys get unusually upset when they are manipulated. The high school years seem to be a time when a lot of girls like to mess with guys that way just because they can and it makes them feel powerful.

I'll also say that people keep mentioning Taylor Swift, but honestly I don't think she's a good example since your pretty much using a stage persona meant to cultivate a specific image and product for sale as the basis for real world relationships. Trying to make any kind of life desicians or judgements based on her songs, or those of any artist for that matter, doesn't strike me as being a wise course of action.

 

[BleedingPride]

Considering that I've done the "I like you but only as a friend" shtick to a few girls before, I'd say it's totally a thing. I'm not particularly proud that I made it happen, but it is a thing nonetheless.

 

[dystopiaINC]

I've been friendzoned by a few guys (and girls), but they were usually way out of my league anyway, so I didn't really care. But on the general idea of the friendzone: I think it's rather silly. It isn't a real thing, and nobody should feel bad if they end up in it, but unfortunately that's what everyone seems to default to.

There are a million reasons a woman (or man) wouldn't want to date you at any given time, zero of which have to do with you 'not being good enough'. Maybe she needs to focus on career. Maybe she just got out of a relationship and doesn't want another. Maybe she's gay! Also, if none of those matter to you, recall that people have preferences that nobody can control. I like dark eyes, for example. It's a stupid reason to turn someone down just based on that, but if I barely know you and have nothing else to go on, you bet I'll say no. Long story short, sometimes people turn you down! In fact, I bet most people would turn down almost everyone else. That's why finding someone who will tolerate you is so exciting.

I just get really sad when I see all these people beating themselves up about something so tiny.

As to the OT more specifically, both genders experience rejection, but women (in general) feel a lot less entitled to relationships(sex) than men do, so it's not as big of a slap in the face when someone turns them down. That's probably why it's never talked about.

Now In my experience, Since this is all I have to go on, I disagree a bit. I know a lot of guys who are confident and out going but have a VERY difficult time finding a girl friend and often when they break up it'll be months or years before they get into a new relationship and that isn't for lack of looking. now conversely almost every friend of mine whom happen to be female, because I can a do make female friends easily with out ever thinking about a relationship or sex, have not had this problem. going back to freshman year in high school, and up until now so about 7 years now, most have been in near constant relationships. Next to all of my female friends have told me the only times they are single is when they want to be single, most of the times they were the party doing the breaking up, and most of the times they had new boyfriends in under a week. now this is just my friends, not every woman/girl but I found most of this out after reading many threads about the "friend zone" and I decided to ask them about their own experiences. I asked my friends, co-workers and managers during a slow days at work, (All four of my mangers are women who always had 2 or more men they knew with out a doubt would be willing to date them at any time). Out of my friends whom I asked when we hung out they told me a lot of the same, even when they had boy friends they always knew a guy or two that they could ask out if the current relationship failed, now I have a pretty mixed bag of friends, some are very attractive, some fell out of ugly trees and hit every branch on the way down, but they're great people. When I asked my friends of both genders it was So lopsided between genders I was amazed. now this my not be the case this is just MY experience but I thought I should share.

As an aside I don't think Entitlement is the word you want here. When your entitled to something you expect it. it's your by right. If I thought I was ENTITLED to sex or a relationship I would be waiting for the women to be approaching me. When somebody feel like something is entitled they aren't putting "kindness coins" in the "sex vending machine" an expecting it to give them sex, they are looking at the vending machine and expecting it to vend them what they want just because they want it. I don't agree with the notion that guys expect to be entitled to sex for being nice, the fact that are putting in effort at all shows they don't think they are entitled to it, but i does show that they mistakenly believe that just being a nice guy is the cheat code for getting a girl friend. It is not the ↑↑ ↓ ↓ ← → B+A combo for sex, there isn't one.

 

[Darks63]

I thought there was already a term for this it was called stalker? yuk yuk yuk

Seriously though i'm sure it exists for both side but it is either less prolific among women or its gets less press.