Female Game Characters Photoshopped to Average American Proportions

[seditary]

I'm curious what the real life women a couple of these characters are modeled after think about this being done to them.

 

[infohippie]

Am I the only one who thinks those alter images are actually alright?

Granted I still kinda disagree with them. They're going about it the wrong way. I mean sure it doesn't take a supermodel body to be an archaeologist like Lara but it still require a healthy body to become one (I assuming they do travel alot on foot). I mean when have you seen a over weight archaeologist on tv?

Actually, I found at least a few of them more attractive post-Photoshop than their original appearances. But then I do like softer female bodies.

 

[Ian Beattie]

Snip

Way to oversimplify everything.

More like "They do the exact same thing that everyone else does without an ounce of creative thought"

And point out where I called developers bad. I said they were unimaginative. Because they are if they struggle to come up with original character design. But if gets the point across better, this is a small part of a very big problem. I'm just focusing on this small part because everyone seems to agree that the big problem exists, but not this part of it. And I said half.

See, this is why you don't oversimplify arguments into strawmen like you just did.

It's not unamaginative.

There aren't fat soldiers, there aren't fat gymnasts, in order to do the things most these characters do they need to look like they have bodies capable of that.

no one would buy the idea of a fat lara croft.

 

[Redryhno]

Snip

Way to oversimplify everything.

More like "They do the exact same thing that everyone else does without an ounce of creative thought"

And point out where I called developers bad. I said they were unimaginative. Because they are if they struggle to come up with original character design. But if gets the point across better, this is a small part of a very big problem. I'm just focusing on this small part because everyone seems to agree that the big problem exists, but not this part of it. And I said half.

See, this is why you don't oversimplify arguments into strawmen like you just did.

It's not unamaginative.

There aren't fat soldiers, there aren't fat gymnasts, in order to do the things most these characters do they need to look like they have bodies capable of that.

no one would buy the idea of a fat lara croft.

To be fair, I don't think anyone but Rikku is "fat", but yeah, there's way too much "softness" and not enough "hardness" on the shopped bodies.

 

[ZiggyE]

I'm not sure how changing trained fighters like Lara Croft and Tifa into fatties is supposed to be more realistic.

 

[Queen Michael]

I like the pics. The women look supersexy. With that said, though Cortana isn't a real woman even in-universe, so it's meaningless to choose her.

And like others have said, you gotta take their profession into account.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Way to oversimplify everything.

More like "They do the exact same thing that everyone else does without an ounce of creative thought"

And point out where I called developers bad. I said they were unimaginative. Because they are if they struggle to come up with original character design. But if gets the point across better, this is a small part of a very big problem. I'm just focusing on this small part because everyone seems to agree that the big problem exists, but not this part of it. And I said half.

See, this is why you don't oversimplify arguments into strawmen like you just did.

It's not unamaginative.

There aren't fat soldiers, there aren't fat gymnasts, in order to do the things most these characters do they need to look like they have bodies capable of that.

no one would buy the idea of a fat lara croft.

Doing what everyone else is doing without adding anything new is a pretty textbook definition of being unimaginative.

I don't think anyone was asking for fat soldiers or fat gymnasts, so kindly put the straw man arguments away. We're asking that women be allowed to have more body types than just runway model. Hell, men are allowed to be ugly, drop dead gorgeous and everything in-between in video games, how come whenever people ask for more body types on women there's so much push back.

 

[Vyress]

It's a good message, but it misses the mark by quite a bit.

The message:
On the left: An unrealistic representation of the female form.
On the right: A realistic representation of the female form.

The reality:
On the left: An anime inspired stylized video game girl.
On the right: A slightly deformed anime inspired video game girl.

Neither images are realistic. Presenting either of them as being "ideal" or "normal" is the problem.

Huh... The only unrealistic parts about actual Rikku are her hair and her clothes. There are lots of girls with her body type/figure around. Just because something is aesthetically appealing to most doesn't automatically mean it's unrealistic. I'm not saying this is the ideal body to have or that 5 kg more on her would make her chubby. But dismissing her body as unrealistic seems like pandering towards obese people. It's certainly not a general ideal - there is more than just one body type and tastes are different, though most would agree that she is definitely appealing. But it is clearly not unrealistic - just go outside and look around (though I'm guessing this doesn't apply to the US?).

 

[Programmed_For_Damage]

Australia long since overtook America as the fattest nation in the world by ratio. That is, America has the most fat people by sheer virtue of population size, but Australia has a higher concentration of fat.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/australias-health-at-a-glance-were-fat-depressed-and-battling-cholesterol/story-fneuz9ev-1226765535472
http://www.smh.com.au/news/health/australia-pips-us-as-worlds-fattest-nation/2008/06/19/1213770827371.html

Well colour me informed! Thanks for the update. I'm a little surprised by not shocked.

 

[Beliyal]

It's not unamaginative.

There aren't fat soldiers, there aren't fat gymnasts, in order to do the things most these characters do they need to look like they have bodies capable of that.

no one would buy the idea of a fat lara croft.

I agree there aren't any fat soldiers or fat gymnasts, but not everyone in the world is a soldier or a gymnast. That's where the "unimaginative" comes from. There's always this argument that you can't have a fat soldier or a fat martial artist, but how about making a character who is not either of those things? There are a bunch of sports out there and all require different body types. A gymnast is one thing, but a discus thrower is another. Google female discus throwers. Those [http://www.ukthrowers.webspace.virginmedia.com/valerie%20adams.jpg] are professional athletes, some of them with Olympic medals and they would be considered fat by our media.

I don't want a fat Lara Croft, but a Lara Croft with biceps would be nice, seeing as she's an athlete who does backflips and is clearly capable of pulling her own weight. Her upper arms are made as if she was a model and not someone who can lift 70 kilos and more. Granted, her new design is better, thought I'd advise the designers to consider that she's clearly been training since her first reboot game and in order to climb those ice walls in the wilderness, you need muscle on your arms. We can go back to Google again and search for female climbers [http://thrillfuel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/female-rock-climbers.jpg] as well.

 

[thewatergamer]

Uh huh let's just ignore all context like the fact that most fighting game characters well FIGHT and as a result get tons of exercise or the fact that cortana is an AI that chose her appearance via digital effects. Also no attempt whatsoever to make any male video game characters "realistically proportioned" oh wait sorry I forgot, it's only bad if it happens to women my bad carry on totally unbiased organization

 

[Redryhno]

Doing what everyone else is doing without adding anything new is a pretty textbook definition of being unimaginative.

Isn't this sorta what the battlecry of the indie crowd is supposed to be about? Fuck AAA because they're design by committee and making what sells? If it doesn't sell with indies or pick up steam there, why should anyone else do it?

 

[Rahkshi500]

But they aren't real people. They are fantasy depictions. And if someone is going to be affected by fantasy depictions of what someone looks like then they might just have more serious issues than eating disorders.

I would agree with you, though I don't believe this group is as concerned by individual depictions as much as a noticeable lack of alternatives.

It's worth noting that Bulimia.com does not condemn the developers behind the idealized source material nor claim that such bodies are impossible, rather that they are unrealistic as a standard.

Now I don't wish to doubt or flat out dismiss your claim, but can you point out where Bulimia.com says that they don't condemn the developers behind the idealized designs or say that they aren't impossible but just unrealistic as a standard? Because I read through the article myself and I can't seem to find it where it says those.

As for the article itself and for the main message behind it, I can understand the point behind the lack of creativity around the prevalence of the common build female characters are given and I do certainly like to see more different body types as well in gaming, but at the same time given my personal disdain with all manners of developers trying to make things look "realistic" as possible, I tend to some favor more radical, unrealistic designs in general. It could because I've been rather adverse to the whole idea that people have to look certain ways in order to fit into this or that. Not to mention that even when accepting that fiction is a reflection of reality or can have some degree of influence on people, I don't think that it should rule out escapism, because a major aspect of fiction is to take us away from the real world, not recreate it. So yeah, you can say that I do wanna see more different body types, realistic or otherwise, in fiction, but at the same time, I do also wanna see those kinds of builds in a lot of the same or different roles as well, whether it is someone with the build of a supermodel in the role of a warrior, or someone with the build of a sumo wrestler running as fast as a champion athlete.

 

[ecoho]

so let me get this straight they took a bunch of characters who live in a world were they are constantly fighting and made them the same size as the average American woman......hers a thought how about we compare those girls to say female MMA fighters or hell half the medics in the US military(I believe they still have the largest number of female service members in there)
the only one in those pictures that seems legit is the GTA girl who could actually look like that, the rest lead too active a lifestyle to ever look like that.

That wouldn't be a bad idea. But then you'd have people complaining about how "butch" the women are made to look, failing to realize that professional MMA female fighters tend to have flat chests and broad shoulders and aren't, first and foremost, conventionally sexy run-away models. Some of these average versions look closer to real athletes then the originals.

not quite cause most of the women you see on TV actually have b to c cups they're just wearing sports bras with wraps as its a lot easier to fight without those things flying every which way.

 

[ZiggyE]

Now that I think of it, since Tifa is a part of the dystopian Midgar's underclass, it's very likely she's probably been through a food crisis or five since moving from Nibelheim, and has probably starved on more than a few occasions. It could almost be classed as offensive to portray her as overweight to appease the sensibilities of overweight, privileged American girls who've never had to worry about getting a meal in their lives rather than seeking a more accurate portrayal of what a girl living in the slums of Sector 7 is likely to look like (i.e. not well fed).

 

[Thaluikhain]

Impressive amount of missing the point going on. Yes, there are people who are thinner than average, but not everyone is, by definition. Yes bulimia might seem a strange disorder, but that doesn't mean it isn't a serious and widespread one. Yes, you can try to "encourage" fat people to lose weight if you want to avoid the issue, only people have been trying that nonstop for many years and it hasn't worked.

 

[Tilly]

There's a serious point buried beneath all of the confusion and silliness here I believe.

Perhaps they would've got closer to touching it if they'd compared the average american to the average in other countries as well?

 

[Alar]

The thing is, these characters aren't supposed to be 'average'. They're supposed to be fit, or athletic, or muscled, or seductive heroines. These are the roles they play. They're not just someone who got up off the couch and decided to go adventuring.

Snip

Way to oversimplify everything.

More like "They do the exact same thing that everyone else does without an ounce of creative thought"

And point out where I called developers bad. I said they were unimaginative. Because they are if they struggle to come up with original character design. But if gets the point across better, this is a small part of a very big problem. I'm just focusing on this small part because everyone seems to agree that the big problem exists, but not this part of it. And I said half.

See, this is why you don't oversimplify arguments into strawmen like you just did.

It's not unamaginative.

There aren't fat soldiers, there aren't fat gymnasts, in order to do the things most these characters do they need to look like they have bodies capable of that.

no one would buy the idea of a fat lara croft.

Doing what everyone else is doing without adding anything new is a pretty textbook definition of being unimaginative.

I don't think anyone was asking for fat soldiers or fat gymnasts, so kindly put the straw man arguments away. We're asking that women be allowed to have more body types than just runway model. Hell, men are allowed to be ugly, drop dead gorgeous and everything in-between in video games, how come whenever people ask for more body types on women there's so much push back.

You're talking about women (albeit fictional women) who are very active people. They don't eat 3000+ calories and then sit around. They're fighting, running, climbing, training, carrying, riding, and all other manner of physical activity. It doesn't make sense to use the characters from these franchises. If you want some overweight females represented in the game industry, come up with new ones, don't promote sabotaging ones that already exist.

 

[EbonBehelit]

Australia long since overtook America as the fattest nation in the world by ratio. That is, America has the most fat people by sheer virtue of population size, but Australia has a higher concentration of fat.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/australias-health-at-a-glance-were-fat-depressed-and-battling-cholesterol/story-fneuz9ev-1226765535472
http://www.smh.com.au/news/health/australia-pips-us-as-worlds-fattest-nation/2008/06/19/1213770827371.html

Well colour me informed! Thanks for the update. I'm a little surprised by not shocked.

That's old info. The most current stuff I could find actually has neither Australia or the US in the top ten.
Mind you, both countries are still in pretty bad shape regardless.

http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/these-are-the-most-obese-countries-in-the-world--gyEoNT9Esx
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/04/22/youll-never-guess-the-worlds-fattest-country-and-no-its-not-the-u-s/

On-Topic though:
This attempt at 'normalizing' the bodies of videogame women is a bit misguided, since none of these women could/should be described as 'average'.
The issue in my mind is not about how much fat is on the bodies of these female characters, but rather the amount of muscle they (don't) have. It creates a huge dissonance between the way they look and what they're supposed to be capable of, since supermodel arms can't really throw a punch.

 

[Damien Granz]

Maybe people should be encouraged to lose weight rather than making their fictional characters fatter.

Well, that's kind of related to the concern that the group has, that the ever presence of this kind of body image represents an unattainable ideal for the average person, the pursuit of which could result in the development of the eating disorders they provide information about.

Not to mention that even physically fit characters do have some body fat and muscle mass. Like the the original Naru from Legend of Zelda, is literally an hour glass shape that would crack open if she bent wrong. That's not fit, it's ridiculous. Nobody can 'lose weight' to be that shape without a disease or something crushing their bones and organs, and they sure as heck wouldn't be doing any action fighting in that shape. That's the article's point.