Female Gamers: Are you tired of being presented with no dignity?

[florence500]

Avykins i wasnt going to post on this thread because of it's controversial nature but i just couldnt resist.

1. If you dont like Porn don't watch it.
2. If you dont like women or threads aimed at women dont post on them.

 

[RancidBeast]

As a female gamer, I don't feel as though i'm being represented with no dignity.
Infact, the thought doesn't really cross my mind when I'm playing a game which has a skimpily clad woman with huge assets. And if I do? I think it's rather amusing!

Sure some men fantasise about it... but thats up to them, in my opinion. Men aren't exactly depicted 'realistically' either in a hell of a lot of games, but i can see your point that they don't run around in practically underwear. However, that IS marketing for you. Women in underwear is probably the best form of catching the audiences eye in a predominantly male area (I know a lot of women work an games too...)

Just my opinion though

 

[squid5580]

I know how the market works. It is us consumers who have the power. Not the developers, not the big name companies, gamers have the power. So the bottom line is you are blaming the wrong people. You should be blaming yourself along with all of us.

Maybe, maybe not, but what I was talking about was how you said there was no other option but the one that proved your point--I don't see how this is relevant.

It is after all our built in need to reproduce that is causing the problem. Not the fact that they may use a bit less clothes than they could have to sell a game. A game we run out in the millions to buy.

Wait, I thought you said you're always too busy typing about how "hordes of sex depraved gamers" is a stereotype--what problem is being caused by "built in need to reproduce" if gamers are not a "horde" (i.e. those 'millions who run out to buy') of people who are "sex depraved"?

And just because you can list of a game that has females portrayed a bit more fantastical than other games that are topsellers it doesn't matter. For every title you can list I can list a game that sold just as well that had little or no female characters so they could not be exploited.

Okay, but is that enough to say the OP was engaging in stereotypical rambling? And that only addresses one of the two alternate options I gave to your false dichotomy.

Oh and your little image of a pin up girl like pilots used to paint on thier planes in real life is wearing quite a bit

Her uniform has had the entire mid-rif cut out, her pants have been cut down to booty shorts, and she's in thigh-highs...

When you figure out the difference between sexy and sexist then we can talk.

 

[Evan Waters]

When you figure out the difference between sexy and sexist then we can talk.

I think the general issue is not that women are sometimes displayed sexily, it's that they still, for the most part, HAVE to be sexy to be in a video game. Male characters are allowed to be ugly and non-sexy more often than female ones. There are exceptions, which is nice- Portal's main character is just sort of plain- but there is a disparity, and even if you're a heterosexual guy and like looking at sexy girls, it can sometimes seem silly just on an aesthetic level. It can come off as trying way too hard to get the male gamer's attention, as though you don't actually have much to offer on the gameplay side.

 

[aalio]

Shut the hell up honestly, if your only reference is a Live Journal post then you have nothing to go on. T&A sells, and marketing companies realise this so they exploit it, until women become a dominant driving force in the games market it won't change. So all I can say is get your friends involved, and sit down, shutup and take the ride.

 

[Evan Waters]

Shut the hell up honestly, if your only reference is a Live Journal post then you have nothing to go on. T&A sells,

Only to a point. Right now there's enough that it's not really much of a help (c.f., X-Blades)

and marketing companies realise this so they exploit it, until women become a dominant driving force in the games market it won't change. So all I can say is get your friends involved, and sit down, shutup and take the ride.

So, getting involved does not mean any actual criticism or questioning of market trends?

See, it's one thing, to me at least, to say, "Well, I disagree with you about the degree of sexism in the video games industry." But a response of "OMFG I'M SICK OF YOU PC TYPES STOP WHINING AGGHHH" seems... overly defensive, perhaps. Nobody's going to completely take away the hot girls in video games, folks. Lara Croft is in no danger.

 

[Paragon Fury]

I think human women need to come to terms with the fact that being asthetically pleasing is in fact, mainly, if in not entirely, the calling of females. This isn't sexism - this is nature at work. In nature, particularly in regards to mammals, the attraction of the opposite sex is generally the female's job, not the males. Be it through smell, sight, sound or otherwise, it is typically the job of the female to be the attractive one (and then to weed out the unsuitable males). Is it right? Maybe, maybe not. But it is so, and its not going away.

So humans, being largely sight based, would rely heavily on sight-based forms of attraction. And what better way to market something to your target demographic (which for video games, is 16 - 35 year old males) than with something they're biologically and psychologically programmed to pay attention to?

 

[thoraxe5000]

Not this again. Who the frack cares about female gamers? Stop whining about girls in video games being hotter than you could ever, ever, ever be. Until they turn all the male characters to fat, greasey, cheeto covered slobs you have no right to complain.
Simple fact is, the majority does not want a fat, acne scarred chick any more than they do in their male leads. Apart from Mario how many ugly, unappealing male main characters are there?
The only thing that really destroys female gamers dignity is when they are seen crying over such a trivial matter.
Society likes pretty people. If you do not like it, do not buy it.

Why did the thread continue after this?

 

[axia777]

Not this again. Who the frack cares about female gamers? Stop whining about girls in video games being hotter than you could ever, ever, ever be. Until they turn all the male characters to fat, greasey, cheeto covered slobs you have no right to complain.
Simple fact is, the majority does not want a fat, acne scarred chick any more than they do in their male leads. Apart from Mario how many ugly, unappealing male main characters are there?
The only thing that really destroys female gamers dignity is when they are seen crying over such a trivial matter.
Society likes pretty people. If you do not like it, do not buy it.

Why did the thread continue after this?

Because it is one of those threads that feeds on itself in a cycle of self perpetrated cannibalism.

 

[squid5580]

When you figure out the difference between sexy and sexist then we can talk.

I think the general issue is not that women are sometimes displayed sexily, it's that they still, for the most part, HAVE to be sexy to be in a video game. Male characters are allowed to be ugly and non-sexy more often than female ones. There are exceptions, which is nice- Portal's main character is just sort of plain- but there is a disparity, and even if you're a heterosexual guy and like looking at sexy girls, it can sometimes seem silly just on an aesthetic level. It can come off as trying way too hard to get the male gamer's attention, as though you don't actually have much to offer on the gameplay side.

And again how many titles can you list that forget gameplay and sell thier game soley relying on boobs? Compare that to all the titles out there and what kind of percentage are you going to come up with? Maybe if you are lucky you will come up with 1%. And what is the alternative. A female lead will always be more attractive than a real person somewhere out there. Guys are still drooling over Alyx who dressed conservatively and was not all that attractive compared to say Ivy. The only way to avoid this problem is to be rid of it altogether. Now who here is interested in watching every game come out having to have a MasterChief wannabe with no curves whatsoever so that we never know if they are male or female.

 

[Paragon Fury]

As a side note, am I allowed to point out how hiliarously ironic the rather distracting picture for Crime Craft to left of the screen is to this discussion?

 

[Evan Waters]

When you figure out the difference between sexy and sexist then we can talk.

I think the general issue is not that women are sometimes displayed sexily, it's that they still, for the most part, HAVE to be sexy to be in a video game. Male characters are allowed to be ugly and non-sexy more often than female ones. There are exceptions, which is nice- Portal's main character is just sort of plain- but there is a disparity, and even if you're a heterosexual guy and like looking at sexy girls, it can sometimes seem silly just on an aesthetic level. It can come off as trying way too hard to get the male gamer's attention, as though you don't actually have much to offer on the gameplay side.

And again how many titles can you list that forget gameplay and sell thier game soley relying on boobs? Compare that to all the titles out there and what kind of percentage are you going to come up with? Maybe if you are lucky you will come up with 1%.

You're making my point for me. The pandering ISN'T necessary or even that effective, so the "SEX SELLS, ACCEPT IT" argument has little weight.

And what is the alternative.

Greater variety in the presentation of female characters- both in terms of appearance and personality. It's not a question of eliminating the sexy girls altogether, just having them exist alongside characters who aren't conventionally attractive. Conventionally is sort of the important term there- every character has someone who will find them attractive, but they don't have to all be the slim, busty, well-made-up model. More characters like Portal's Chell or the Hammer gal in Fable 2 or even Goombella would be nice. I don't see why this is objectionable to so many people.

 

[squid5580]

When you figure out the difference between sexy and sexist then we can talk.

I think the general issue is not that women are sometimes displayed sexily, it's that they still, for the most part, HAVE to be sexy to be in a video game. Male characters are allowed to be ugly and non-sexy more often than female ones. There are exceptions, which is nice- Portal's main character is just sort of plain- but there is a disparity, and even if you're a heterosexual guy and like looking at sexy girls, it can sometimes seem silly just on an aesthetic level. It can come off as trying way too hard to get the male gamer's attention, as though you don't actually have much to offer on the gameplay side.

And again how many titles can you list that forget gameplay and sell thier game soley relying on boobs? Compare that to all the titles out there and what kind of percentage are you going to come up with? Maybe if you are lucky you will come up with 1%.

You're making my point for me. The pandering ISN'T necessary or even that effective, so the "SEX SELLS, ACCEPT IT" argument has little weight.

And what is the alternative.

Greater variety in the presentation of female characters- both in terms of appearance and personality. It's not a question of eliminating the sexy girls altogether, just having them exist alongside characters who aren't conventionally attractive. Conventionally is sort of the important term there- every character has someone who will find them attractive, but they don't have to all be the slim, busty, well-made-up model. More characters like Portal's Chell or the Hammer gal in Fable 2 or even Goombella would be nice. I don't see why this is objectionable to so many people.

It isn't objectionable. Did those character's you listed games bomb? So my point still remains that there are games that do use "normal" females as well as games that use "hot" ones. So we have already achieved what this topic was about. Now the peasants can rejoice.

 

[squid5580]

I know how the market works. It is us consumers who have the power. Not the developers, not the big name companies, gamers have the power. So the bottom line is you are blaming the wrong people. You should be blaming yourself along with all of us.

Maybe, maybe not, but what I was talking about was how you said there was no other option but the one that proved your point--I don't see how this is relevant.

It is after all our built in need to reproduce that is causing the problem. Not the fact that they may use a bit less clothes than they could have to sell a game. A game we run out in the millions to buy.

Wait, I thought you said you're always too busy typing about how "hordes of sex depraved gamers" is a stereotype--what problem is being caused by "built in need to reproduce" if gamers are not a "horde" (i.e. those 'millions who run out to buy') of people who are "sex depraved"?

And just because you can list of a game that has females portrayed a bit more fantastical than other games that are topsellers it doesn't matter. For every title you can list I can list a game that sold just as well that had little or no female characters so they could not be exploited.

Okay, but is that enough to say the OP was engaging in stereotypical rambling? And that only addresses one of the two alternate options I gave to your false dichotomy.

Oh and your little image of a pin up girl like pilots used to paint on thier planes in real life is wearing quite a bit

Her uniform has had the entire mid-rif cut out, her pants have been cut down to booty shorts, and she's in thigh-highs...

When you figure out the difference between sexy and sexist then we can talk.

You mean once I adopt your definition of the difference uncritically, we can talk.

Also, how is that relevant to the to the first two things I said?

You really want me to answer them ok. My point was there are tons of games that don't use sex appeal to sell. TONS. Just because you can pick one or 2 out of millions of titles is just stererotypical BS trying to make a point.

2. SARCASM. Look it up, memorize the meaning then try again.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

I don't think my opinion really has much relevance at this stage, but I figured I'd try to add something anyway.

Games haven't always depicted women in an sexist/slutty of roles as they do now, or as much. Think back on the games you loved as a child. Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, Phantasy Star 4, Mario RPG, Super Metroid, Banjo Kazooie, etc. Many of these games featured women in prominent (Nobody had any chance of defeating Lavos in CT without Lucca) roles. Sure, maybe one or two of the female characters weren't wearing as many clothes as they could have been, but it wasn't really played up and their characters were still very well rounded and interesting.

Perhaps this was one of the few positive results of such heavy censorship during those times? Or maybe as graphics got better, it was easier for male nerds to create their dream girls? I don't really know. All I know is that in Chrono Trigger, Ayla is really the only scantily-clad character who spends any time onscreen. And she's more of a subplot character. In Persona 4, however (a game I think reminds me of CT for some reason), nearly every female character has a tiny skirt and many are obvious jailbait (and the less said about their shadow selves, the better, considering the whole "underage" thing). And this is a game that isn't anything close to the worst games have to offer in this respect. I'm not saying Persona 4 is a bad game, just that almost all games today seem to portray their female characters with less clothes than games did back in the Snes, N64 and PS1 era.

I love the gameplay in Dead or Alive: Ultimate and DoA 3, but man... Sometimes I just wanna play the game without feeling embarrassed about my character's jiggling flesh.