Female Perspective - Friend Zone

[artanis_neravar]

So the general consensus seems to be
Female: It does not exist
and either
Male: Yes I've been there
or
Male: Yes, but I've never been there because I'm a douche

 

[Ariseishirou]

Personally I think everyone should ask themselves a basic question: is the model a good fit for the data? Or, in this context, does it explain your personal experiences and observations?

That's just begging for nothing but confirmation bias, though. People will, in hindsight, force their experience to conform to the theory because they want to believe it; this sort of soft misogyny has considerable pop culture appeal because it reinforces traditional social "norms".

Really, you'd be better off testing the theory with impartial data sets. Of which none are provided, so it's relatively safe to dismiss this theory out of hand because there is no evidence aside from anecdotes (that may or may not be factual, or presented in an impartial manner even if they are factual) to support it.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Also for those that assume girls want the "bad boy" over "nice guys", I don't think that is necessarily the case either. "Bad boys" are good liars, so they are good at deceiving the girl, making her think he is all of the things she is looking for. A Girl does not want a guy to abuse her, lie to her, cheat on her, no. I think the reason why the bad guy gets the girl is because the bad guy is better at telling a girl what she wants to hear.

I don't know about that I know many girls who really likes the drama and stuff. It's like he has to be a douche in a relationship at least (they wouldn't admit it or even know it but on a level they are attracted to it). And when i was in highschool I was kinda popular and I was a douchebag because off that and a lot of girls liked that, more then when I cooled down and started being a nice guy. Even the ones that dated nice guys like it when i was a douchebag. But it didn't fit me and I changed over a year. About the lying part, hmm more like keeping her content but still fuzzing about everything you do. Just my thoughts.

Yea there are both guys and girls that are wanna be Jerry Springer Hos, but think about it, they deserve each other. Why would anyone want a guy or a girl who is all about the drama and acting like an idiot that was not one themselves? If you see what you may think is a good girl with a jerk, chances are she doesn't know he is a jerk, or she really isn't who you thought she was to begin with.

 

[artanis_neravar]

You're just a girl I want to bone silly.

Well, at least she'd know you never respected her in the first place and she was right to reject you. You're doing a service to the community by confirming that she made the right choice ;3

Youd rather guys continue lying to you?
Id take a honest asshole over a two faced, deceitful, game playing mother fucker any day of the week.
Like it or not, at least with those who admit to believing in the ladder theory, you know exactly where you stand. The others, are probably lying but you can't tell.

The ladder theory is completely bullshit I don't want to sleep with any of my female friends

 

[RiboNucleicAxe]

This is why I only have one female friend. I have enough friends, I don't need more. Especially not ones that expect from you the emotional support of a boyfriend without the benefits.

The reason you have only one female friend is because you see it as a chore. If you think that girls are too much effort 'cos they spend so much time crying, you're not gonna have many who bother with your time.

OT: The friend zone is, to me, when things would just be weird. I've never had to tell a guy that they're in the friend zone, cause it's usually mutual: I have a couple of guy friends who qualify, and we're more like brother and sister. Getting physical would be like trying to trying to get with my brother, y'know?

(captcha: riallase calmly)

 

[Ariseishirou]

Youd rather guys continue lying to you?
Id take a honest asshole over a two faced, deceitful, game playing mother fucker any day of the week.

No, I'd rather a man honestly responded that he was disappointed, and he no longer wants to continue the friendship because his attraction to me was romantic and he isn't interested in being friends as it would be painful for him.

As opposed to "oh well whatever you're just a dumb girl I wanted to bone who's not worthy of being my friend anyway".

Yeah, great. If that's all you think of me as I'd never fuck you, anyway, even if I was attracted to you. Honestly? I'd never sleep with a man if he didn't think I was worth drinking with or helping him home after a few.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

This is why I only have one female friend. I have enough friends, I don't need more. Especially not ones that expect from you the emotional support of a boyfriend without the benefits.

The reason you have only one female friend is because you see it as a chore. If you think that girls are too much effort 'cos they spend so much time crying, you're not gonna have many who bother with your time.

OT: The friend zone is, to me, when things would just be weird. I've never had to tell a guy that they're in the friend zone, cause it's usually mutual: I have a couple of guy friends who qualify, and we're more like brother and sister. Getting physical would be like trying to trying to get with my brother, y'know?

(captcha: riallase calmly)

Actually, I am a female with very few female friends. Not because I dislike female friends, but for the most part, we usually have very little in common. I have also had a great deal of trouble with female friends over the years, I don't like overly emotional people. I do not like bipolar people. They annoy me, I feel more comfortable when they are not around me.

I have had many girls through the years try to befriend me only to do things like chop up my bikini with scissors and say it was because they were " jealous" and think that I should forgive them for acting like a psycho. I had a chic try to dress like me act like me, talk like me, some seriously SWF scary stuff. They have made up nonsense about me, and overall were not very good friends.

I have had 1 female "life friend" She and I have been friends since gradeschool and still get together at least once a month for brunch to catch up even with our busy lives. But she isn't overly emotional, clingly, psycho, or manipulative, no she is a true friend.

Maybe it isn't a matter of it being a chore to have friends, but more so harder to find the quality of people and common interests enough to " call them a friend". Plenty of aquaintences sure, but only a few close friends.

 

[SHIFTYMACO]

http://www.laddertheory.com/
Ladder theory here to save the day!

That just made my night!

 

[ZtH]

I am quite honestly appalled. This is one of the most sexist things I've seen in a while - and I hang out on the internet. "Things that women say they care about but don't"... and strangers who aren't in their heads and claim to speak for the entire female sex would know better than these silly deceitful women, would they? I cannot believe this absolute bile even exists.

I'm not sure I agree with calling this sexist. It has pretty terrible views on the entire human race not just woman. Do you honestly think guys like people saying that all we ever want from women is sex? It's pretty much just hateful to everyone.

 

[WarCorrespondent]

I asked my girlfriend if she knew what exactly the "friend zone" was.

She said it was a nice way of girls saying "I am not attracted to you in the slightest."

THAT makes a lot more sense to me.

 

[Haydyn]

I think the thing about the friend zone is once you admit you like the girl, any interest she had in you is gone. I had a friend who wanted to be in a relationship with me, but I didn't find her physically attractive, and her home life was a little too dramatic for me. We were good friends and I got away with tons of sex jokes around her openly displaying desire for her, as I did have some interest, and she changed up her look and what I was looking for changed. However, once I openly admitted I wanted to be in a relationship with her, she declined. She "didn't want to ruin the friendship" but at that point it was already too late. You don't slowdance with your friends in your back yard.

I don't think it's guys making the excuse, it's girls who don't want to hurt the feelings of guys. I'm not one to admit that men are more sexually uncontrollable than women, but truth be told if just about any female friend I had wanted either a relationship or something physical, I wouldn't say no. I have a female friend who I wanted to nail from the first time I saw her. Her statement was that "I wasn't her type" because I am more of a pretty boy/rocker and she is a scene kid. True or not, she's like a big sister to me now. She has a boyfriend and it doesn't bother me because he treats her like gold. At this point I'm not sure if I would have a one night stand with her, she'd have to at least be single. However I would love to have a relationship with her. O well, it's nice having her in the big sister role, and it's been more amazing knowing her than any girl I've dated. Not that the feeling is mutual.

In the end, I'm just a good looking guy in great shape who loves life and would treat any girl he dates like gold and would never think of cheating on her, and also has a car and apartment, and at the end of the day I'm still wildly lonely to the point of depression because I can't get past the friend zone. I guess girls just like guys that fuck them, treat them like shit, get them pregant, and leave.

 

[Ariseishirou]

I've never been friends with a woman.

And nothing more need be said on the matter, really.

 

[Ariseishirou]

She has a boyfriend and it doesn't bother me because he treats her like gold.

(...) I guess girls just like guys that fuck them, treat them like shit, get them pregant, and leave.

Hmmmmmmm.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

You're just a girl I want to bone silly.

Well, at least she'd know you never respected her in the first place and she was right to reject you. You're doing a service to the community by confirming that she made the right choice ;3

Youd rather guys continue lying to you?
Id take a honest asshole over a two faced, deceitful, game playing mother fucker any day of the week.
Like it or not, at least with those who admit to believing in the ladder theory, you know exactly where you stand. The others, are probably lying but you can't tell.

Hey, I never said that I'm not a two faced, deceitful, game playing mother fucker, it's just that once a girl gives you this bullshit, it's game over and you might as well say what's on your mind. Sticking around is a massive waste of time.

And just because my intention is to have sex with someone doesn't mean I don't respect them. I just don't consider them my friends. Maybe it's a language thing. The Polish word for "friend" implies a very close bond, you don't have "friends" on facebook, you have "acquaintances". I've never been friends with a woman. Of course some of them are tons of fun to be around and you might even think that you understand each other very well, but once you're ears-deep in shit and there is something else than "being there for you" that you need help with, forget about you female friends. They'll join you in drinking, but won't stick around for the hangover. The male friendship is built on what you've been trough together, not only on how much you enjoy hanging out, that what makes it more solid and drama-proof.

Disclaimer: I am talking about about girls attractive enough to be consider a relationship with. I don't care that some beast is always there for (some of) you.

While I feel that true friends, male or female WILL be there for you through the hangover, and much more, are you saying that if you are attracted to a girl, you wouldn't want her to be there trying to make sure you didn't swallow your tongue?

 

[Dragonborne88]

No opinion either way. If I want to be friends with a girl, its easy enough to stay friends without feelings getting in the way. And the girls that relationships haven't worked for, generally I know why or what happened. I'd prefer women to be a little more HONEST with why they break stuff off (none of this "I wasn't ready for a relationship" garbage. If I smell, or I'm a douche, TELL ME!), but other then that, it's usually pretty clear.

However, I agree with what somebody said pretty early on. I've got enough good friends. If you don't want to date, don't expect me to be friends with you. Any time a girl and I have dated and it hasn't worked out, I cease contact from that point on. It's not to be an asshole or anything, but I know how I work, and I don't want feelings to get in the way (which they will, if I really liked them), and me being resentful all the time.

 

[Keava]

You know..i lived 30 years on this planet called Earth and until recently haven't even heard about something like "Friend Zone". It sounds to me like some catch phrase from one of many tv shows i don't watch that managed to strike some of the guys fancy enough so it got through into real life.

As i understand is it when a guy tries but is rejected. Geez. That's like damn normal? Not every friend is potential partner, people just sometimes like to have friends they don't have sex with. That's all there is to it. Im sure there are also guys that don't really want to 'shag everything that doesn't run on tree' ...

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I've never been friends with a woman.

And nothing more need be said on the matter, really.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate women. I have excellent relations with my friends' girlfriends that seem exactly like frienship on the outside. It's just that I realize that once they part with my friends I probably won't see them much and that I'm not supposed to bother them with my shit. I know they won't run into a burning house to save me like my friends would (and I would for them).

How do you know they wouldn't run into a burning house to save you? I mean are their personalities so bad that they would just sit there and let you die? Hell, when my apartment building was on fire, not only did I try to rescue people I did know, I made sure people I didn't know were out of the building. By the time I got out, the fire dept was commin up with the hose and it was getting hung on the stairs and I started grabbing that and pulling it so it didn't get caught. A firefighter came up and and said "sweety that is my job", like he felt bad a petite girl was doing it. When I got to the bottom of the stairs and part of the roof came falling down in front of me, the red cross was trying to give me oxygen. I was covered in soot and didn't even realize it.
Just because " they are a girl" means they wouldn't do anything to save you? What is that all about?

 

[Ariseishirou]

I know they won't run into a burning house to save me like my friends would (and I would for them).

Really? Because I'd do this for any of my male friends. It's why when I was growing up I was glad that Canada is one of the few countries in the world with conscription for both sexes - if we ever went to war my friends wouldn't be forced to go off without me like they would in, say, the US draft.

I've walked them home from bars, I've driven two hours out of my way at four in the morning to pick them up so they wouldn't have to drink and drive, I've helped pull them off of each other when they're fighting, I've let them sleep in my room when their fathers were drunk and hitting them, I've let them cry on my shoulder when they broke up with their girlfriends... because my bros are the best and they'd do the same for me.

You don't think I'm worthy of being your friend because I happen to have an extra X chromosome? Your loss, comrade. I'll stick to being friends with - and sleeping with - men who think more highly of me than that.

 

[Lilani]

The friend zone is just something made up by guys when a girl they have liked for a while rejects them, they just don't want to accept that she doesn't like him that way. If a girl sees you as a potential partner then that isn't going to change just because you are friends with her, yes she may focus her attention elsewhere or give up hope but those things that drew her attention to you in the first place will always be there. So that "I don't want to ruin our friendship" line stems from one of several possibilities, either she doesn't have any attraction to you and never has, she is scared that a relationship with you won't last, she is more attracted to someone else or she is legitimately worried that a relationship would change everything between you.

You are most certainly correct.

"if a guy waits too long to ask you out, you will no longer consider him a possible romantic partner"

And that is most certainly wrong.

Let me tell you both a little story: about how my boyfriend and I got together. We first met last October, and we immediately became friends. We saw each other once a week at the Anime club put on at our university. It wasn't until early March that I realized I liked him. I'd never really had a boyfriend before (I am 20, he's 18), so I sort of had it stuck in my mind that he was the guy and he was supposed to be the one to ask. But first, I had to figure out if he felt the same way.

I sent a few subtle hints here and there, but he didn't seem to notice and it was driving me crazy. One day, I asked to see him without his hat. He has a trademark hat he wears everywhere, and I was curious to see the hair underneath. But he refused, and told me I had to be up a few rungs higher on the friendship ladder before I could see his hair. Ouch. Later that evening we decided we wanted to see Sucker Punch, and he expressed concerns regarding telling his parents that he was going to see a movie with a girl, but not a girlfriend. Ouch, again.

Finally, in mid April, we ended up hanging out together since Anime club was canceled. We went to my room, watched YouTube videos, talked, and watched a movie. Somehow, eight hours managed to pass without us even noticing. We talked about everything, having a blast the whole time. It was at this point that I became relatively certain he liked me, too. But even though many opportunities came up after that, he never made any other hints or attempts.

In late April we had our third lunch together, I finally just decided to tell him that I liked him. A lot. He got a little shaky and misty eyed, and said he'd been feeling that way for a while too, but he never could put it into words. He's thanked me ever since for doing that, saying if I hadn't said anything he would still just have a hopeless crush.

TL;DR: The whole "friend zone" thing is just preposterous, when it comes to serious relationships. If a girl really, really likes you, and feels there is something big there, she won't give up on you that easily. Those types of feelings have no expiration date. Also, relationships can form from friendships--in fact, I think that is how every successful relationship should form. That is how my brother and his wife started, as well as my parents, who are about to celebrate their 30th anniversary this June.

 

[Elamdri]

Yeah... as a woman, I would say that the friend zone is a fiction. If we're attracted to you early on, we're just as attracted to you later.

When a girl says "I want to stay friends" - it's because we aren't attracted to you in the first place. The woman in question sees you as a friend, not because you "waited too long" but because you don't fit her ideal of a mate. Maybe you have the wrong hair color, or the wrong build, or the wrong ass. It doesn't mean you aren't attractive, just that you don't fit her particular desire or fetish.

To quote "Sex and the City" it just means "she isn't in to you".

Want evidence? My spouse and I were friends for three years before we had a one-night stand that turned into friends-with-benefits which turned into a relationship.

Happily married 7 years this summer.

So yeah, if a girl is attracted to you, it doesn't matter how long you've been "just friends" - things can work out. If she's not, she's not. Sorry.

I'm not sure I agree with this.

For starters, what we're talking about here are two questions: 1) Does the Friend Zone exist (Yes) and 2) How do you get there (A number of reasons)

The Friend Zone is a type of unrequited love. For those who aren't familiar with the term, unrequited love is when a person is in love with someone who does not reciprocate the feeling. What makes the Friend Zone particularly tragic is that while unrequited love does not require the person who does not reciprocate the feelings of love to even associate with the person who is in love with them, the Friend Zone has that person stuck in a situation where they are in love with a person who considers them a good friend and is often around the object of their affection and subject to platonic affection that they may confuse with amorous feelings.

What's not so clear is how you GET into the friend zone. If you read the wiki article, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friend_zone, it lists a few theories: (1) no romantic attraction (2) ambiguous signals from the man (3) repulsion sexually (but not enough to block a friendship). It also talks about the most popular theory (at least among men) that if you wait too long to ask a woman out, it's possible that she would decline, not wanting to risk the friendship on a relationship.

Personally, I see all these explanations as being valid. There is no reason why the friend zone can't have multiple causes.

I do disagree with you somewhat when you say "If we're attracted to you early on, we're just as attracted to you later." Not only is it possible to grow more or less attracted to someone over time, I've experienced it for myself many times. In fact, one of my longest relationships was with someone who I at first didn't find very attractive.

The problem is that this isn't ALWAYS the case. It certainly DOES happen, but not all the time. The problem with the friend zone is that most guys tend to languish in it for a LONG time trying to make that attraction happen when it likely won't. What you're doing is taking a huge risk that over time someone is going to come to find you attractive, rather than cutting your losses and trying for someone else.