Gotta agree with Bara here, I can find athletic people attractive, but it's because they are good looking... it has nothing to do with their money, and I don't want kids, so it's not that either.Bara_no_Hime said:
Female Perspective - Friend Zone
- Thread starter artanis_neravar
- Start date
What are you talking about? He described exactly what the time limit theory implies. Two people are friends for a while, and it hits a point where dating them would be awkward.The girl finally said that she had been interested in him for the entire time, but they were friends for so long at that point that he no longer wanted her. Believe it or not, there is a point at which it becomes awkward to think of having sex with someone. Now, for me at least that is quite a few years longer an expiration date than most people seem to think it is when talking about this, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.Bara_no_Hime said:
Sorry if anybody has already answered this, I was halfway through typing this when I had to get up and caramelize some onions for dinner.
Haha, you are now one of my favourite people!Bara_no_Hime said:
On the subject:
I find that a bit of honesty and assertiveness go a long way. My usual approach is after a week or two of knowing a woman and being pretty sure I'm attracted to her, I'll say something like "I find you very attractive. If you're not doing anything on (first day I'm available) I'd love to cook for you."
Worst case scenario: She laughs in my face. I'm a little upset for a few days and proceed with a bit less confidence. A month later the whole thing is forgotten.
Typical scenario: She's not interested but thinks I'm "a great guy". She is now an acquaintance.
Best case scenario: She's also interested, we have a relationship lasting some amount of time. Maybe it just doesn't work, in which case, whatever. Try again.
What was that? Why yes! I am a pragmatist! How did you know?
Admitting attraction towards a friend is that isn't really a friend amounts to letting them have power over you.That can get nasty. So the quick and easy solution to being 'friend-zoned' Run. Fast. Get over your attraction or find someone else.
To those saying Ladder Theory is bullshit: As much as we want to dress it up, we're only slightly more sophisticated than animals. Say, animals don't care about money, only status.
To those saying Ladder Theory is bullshit: As much as we want to dress it up, we're only slightly more sophisticated than animals. Say, animals don't care about money, only status.
^This. Dudes, if you get mad when your interest is reciprocated with friendship instead of sex, you aren't actually being a "nice guy."Danglybits said:
Owyn_Merrilin said:
Friend zone is something I do not understand because of several girls that I work with. Good co-working friends, but our personalities are not on the same wave length, so there's nothing there. What bothers me, however, is that when someone DOES come along that they clearly like, and said person is madly in love with them, and everything lines up perfectly in the stars, they go, "Oh, I can't date him. He's too far in the 'Friend Zone'."
I ask them what they mean by that.
"I mean he's too much of a friend."
Now, perhaps I'm just crazy, but I would think that being friends, really good friends, with the person you're in a relationship with is a good thing.
I ask them what they mean by that.
"I mean he's too much of a friend."
Now, perhaps I'm just crazy, but I would think that being friends, really good friends, with the person you're in a relationship with is a good thing.
Yes and no, I think. Our social relations are considerably more complex than any other animal - it's (along with stuff like language and complex abstract thought) one of our defining characteristics as a species. There are likely to be some similarities, but extrapolating our social behavior from other primates makes about as much sense as extrapolating our linguistic abilities from the system of calls made by other primates.Aisaku said:
Also, specifically on the topic of sex, that's another way our species is an extreme oddity. Our sexual behavior is considerably different from that of our closes relatives (chimpanzees and bonobos) likely because our reproductive strategy is considerably different. So it can be misleading there, too.
At the end of the day, it's about the science. There's no science backing up ladder theory, and considerable evidence that it is likely inaccurate.
Just wondering, why did you delete both posts? If that was the post about the girl who friend zoned you in order to use you, I've had the suspicion that that was a big part of why girls do it for a while now; they get all of the emotional support of having a boyfriend, while still being free to date someone more attractive. It's come to the point where I almost think of being that supportive of a female friend as being the male equivalent of putting out on a first date; "why buy the horse if you can ride for free?"Strain42 said:
Speaking as a man who has never had a girlfriend (and, by extension, is still a virgin) I have to put a caveat here as all that I am about to say is pure assumption, and simply my own observations over the last 2 decades of my life.
Humans, despite our sentience and higher intelligence, are still very much primal beings. In our primal minds, we wish to mate, and we wish to mate with as many members of the opposite (or same) sex as we please, as is nature for several species. However, unlike other species, thanks to our own sentience, we cannot simply engage in sex with whomever we please. Rather, we need to engage in what we call "romance" in order to woo/persuade the person/people with whom we wish to have sex with that this is a mutually beneficial concept. This procedure can take anywhere from a single evening to several years, so in essence, we put more effort into the pursuit of sex than most creatures put into the act itself.
In this way, the "Friend Zone" to a lot of males is a deterring factor to our own primal instincts. I know it may not be true of every man in the world, but there are a significant number of men who will only interact with a woman for the express purpose of wanting to have sex with them. They don't care about who the woman is, their needs/wants/aspirations, they only want to satisfy their primal desires, so, in being placed in the "Friend Zone" these men simply shut down, in a manner of speaking. If one of these men realizes they are not now or never will receive sex from this woman, then they will no longer interact with this woman.
Now I'll say it again, I'm not assuming that every man is like this, nor am I assuming that the only reason men interact with women for is sex. However, there can be no denying that there are plenty of men like that out there, and there are probably some who will "bide their time" in the Friend Zone, trying to snatch an opportunity to rise up into the "Friends with Benefits" Zone. Also, there are probably plenty of men who put women in the Friend Zone as well. I, for one, have a couple of female friends that we're both in each other's Friend Zones because A. they live several states away, and B. they're either married or in committed relationships. I don't see this as bad, because C. while I think they're great friends, I just don't see them as potential sexual partners.
I could probably go on a lot more about how our own concepts of "Love" and "Marriage" hinder our own primal instincts, but I think I've made a clear enough point how much of an opinionated, overly-negative bastard I am, so I'll just leave it at that.
Humans, despite our sentience and higher intelligence, are still very much primal beings. In our primal minds, we wish to mate, and we wish to mate with as many members of the opposite (or same) sex as we please, as is nature for several species. However, unlike other species, thanks to our own sentience, we cannot simply engage in sex with whomever we please. Rather, we need to engage in what we call "romance" in order to woo/persuade the person/people with whom we wish to have sex with that this is a mutually beneficial concept. This procedure can take anywhere from a single evening to several years, so in essence, we put more effort into the pursuit of sex than most creatures put into the act itself.
In this way, the "Friend Zone" to a lot of males is a deterring factor to our own primal instincts. I know it may not be true of every man in the world, but there are a significant number of men who will only interact with a woman for the express purpose of wanting to have sex with them. They don't care about who the woman is, their needs/wants/aspirations, they only want to satisfy their primal desires, so, in being placed in the "Friend Zone" these men simply shut down, in a manner of speaking. If one of these men realizes they are not now or never will receive sex from this woman, then they will no longer interact with this woman.
Now I'll say it again, I'm not assuming that every man is like this, nor am I assuming that the only reason men interact with women for is sex. However, there can be no denying that there are plenty of men like that out there, and there are probably some who will "bide their time" in the Friend Zone, trying to snatch an opportunity to rise up into the "Friends with Benefits" Zone. Also, there are probably plenty of men who put women in the Friend Zone as well. I, for one, have a couple of female friends that we're both in each other's Friend Zones because A. they live several states away, and B. they're either married or in committed relationships. I don't see this as bad, because C. while I think they're great friends, I just don't see them as potential sexual partners.
I could probably go on a lot more about how our own concepts of "Love" and "Marriage" hinder our own primal instincts, but I think I've made a clear enough point how much of an opinionated, overly-negative bastard I am, so I'll just leave it at that.
Truth be told, I was only trying to delete the one, it wasn't really adding anything new or profound to the conversation, but admittedly I'm not that familiar with The Escapists forum controls. I hit Edit and just deleted my entire post, it said "No comment selected" and gave me the comment box. So I just typed "-Delete Post-" but then I saw both my old message and this new one were there.Owyn_Merrilin said:
So I edited the first one again.
It's my mistake, like I said, still not used to all the mechanics of this forum ^^;;
The Enrichment Centre wishes to remind you that the friend zone is a real place where you will be sent at the first sign of defiance.
But in all seriousness, being friend zoned isn't about being a 'nice guy', it's about not being BOLD.
You can't get anywhere in life by being timid, or being tough on the internet.
If you've been friendzoned already with the girl you SO TOTALLY LOVE, you're already lost. There is NO way out, unless you barely speak to her for months and then come back so there's the nostalgia element there.
In my experience, you have to at least tease girls, hit them with a tickle or two. No fraternal hugs and safety. Tickling especially because it breaks the touch barrier while making them laugh.
You really do have to have an element of jaded cynicism about the whole thing, truth be told.
Also if you're under the age of, say, 20, or don't have a few notches under your belt with other women, don't try to extricate yourself from the friend zone.
You'll be angsty and teenagery. Brim full of the idea of purity of women and promising yourself that it is you who will the perfect, chivalrous man in a country full of douchebags.
This doesn't work, and I know from experience. Chivalry isn't dead, it never existed. And girls certainly aren't pure.
After a crucial, stupid attempt at winning a girl with shitty high school poetry on valentine's day lost me one of my best friends for the best part of a year, I thought I'd never be able to get a girl.
But oh wait, going out with a girl I met at a party and who I didn't know beforehand led me into my first proper relationship. The only time I've managed to end up having sex with a friend I've known well prior to the act (rather than a customer or something, which does work quite well!) was because I never acted asexual and super friendly towards her.
People want to validate themselves, after all. Guys do this through sex with hot women, women do this through sex with people that don't totally respect them.
This is then way the world works and it sucks, but if you exploit it, it's actually pretty awesome.
But in all seriousness, being friend zoned isn't about being a 'nice guy', it's about not being BOLD.
You can't get anywhere in life by being timid, or being tough on the internet.
If you've been friendzoned already with the girl you SO TOTALLY LOVE, you're already lost. There is NO way out, unless you barely speak to her for months and then come back so there's the nostalgia element there.
In my experience, you have to at least tease girls, hit them with a tickle or two. No fraternal hugs and safety. Tickling especially because it breaks the touch barrier while making them laugh.
You really do have to have an element of jaded cynicism about the whole thing, truth be told.
Also if you're under the age of, say, 20, or don't have a few notches under your belt with other women, don't try to extricate yourself from the friend zone.
You'll be angsty and teenagery. Brim full of the idea of purity of women and promising yourself that it is you who will the perfect, chivalrous man in a country full of douchebags.
This doesn't work, and I know from experience. Chivalry isn't dead, it never existed. And girls certainly aren't pure.
After a crucial, stupid attempt at winning a girl with shitty high school poetry on valentine's day lost me one of my best friends for the best part of a year, I thought I'd never be able to get a girl.
But oh wait, going out with a girl I met at a party and who I didn't know beforehand led me into my first proper relationship. The only time I've managed to end up having sex with a friend I've known well prior to the act (rather than a customer or something, which does work quite well!) was because I never acted asexual and super friendly towards her.
People want to validate themselves, after all. Guys do this through sex with hot women, women do this through sex with people that don't totally respect them.
This is then way the world works and it sucks, but if you exploit it, it's actually pretty awesome.
I think the problem is some people takes so long to ask someone out that when they finally does and they get rejected, it looks like they might have had a window of opportunity they missed out on. Really "the friend zone" is just a comforting way of explaining why someone doesn't wish to go out with you (and don't kid yourself, it works both ways...)
As a woman: honestly, no. You couldn't be more wrong. I make friends with guys because I think they're awesome people. Whether or not they want to sleep with me, or me with them, it's irrelevant. I don't care about their emotional support. I have female friends for that. I find most of my guy friends lean on me more for emotional support than I ever do on them. And I'm cool with that so long as they're there for me when I feel like playing co-op ;pOwyn_Merrilin said:
For the most part, I agree with you; I was talking about a very specific case. The guy I quoted, before he accidentally deleted both posts of a double post, was talking about a girl who really leaned on him for emotional support -- the kind of physical but not directly sexual support one usually gets from a boyfriend -- but when he needed some in return, she told him no.Ariseishirou said:
Edit: And from my own experience, there have been situations where I was always willing to listen when the girl needed to talk, where I helped with all kinds of problems, where I, in short, did all of the things a good boyfriend would do, but was not, in fact, the girl's boyfriend. Looking back, can I really blame them for not taking the next step, when I was already giving everything I had to give?
im speaking as a guy so take what i say with a grain of salt, but i do feel there is such thing as a friend zone but it isnt necessarily determined by how long you knew the person. i have female friends i have known my whole life that i would still fuck, but i also have female friends i have only known for a few years but i may be closer to them or something like that. anyway, those friends i still think about in a sexual way sometimes but i would need to be really drunk to do anything with them because i feel so close to them they are almost like sisters to me
Yes, it is. Unfortunately, I don't think the person who created the site actually intended it as such.GiantRaven said:
Hear, hear. (The irony of it is that guys who make sites like that are invariably pretty damn shallow themselves, to say nothing of manipulative.)Ariseishirou said:
I'd like to say that I agree with you on this. But to tell the truth, being a too-conspicuous consumer would probably be a strike against. It strikes me as both pretentious and slick; like he's trying too hard.Ariseishirou said:
Not that it matters; I'm getting married this Saturday. To a guy I friend-zoned the first time he asked me out, no less.