Female Perspective - Friend Zone

[TehJammers]

A crucial difference -

I'll give the example of a night out. Girls can and will go out for a fun night where they're not out to look for guys. In contrast, with guys there is always at least an undercurrent, if not an overt goal, of picking up and seducing women.

 

[Joker7]

Ok facts of life time. chics want Alpha males that are all so nice guys, but most Alpha males are assholes. so like most woman they want what they can't have

Now before you say "but Joker I'm not an Alpha male and i got a GF" well that's because she couldn't get the Alpha male and settled for just the nice guy. just like you couldn't get the super model and settled for her.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

It's not just a defence mechanism for guys who get rejected. You don't even have to ask out the girl to be put in the friend zone. For example you're they guy she goes to when her boyfriend hurts her. The guy she shares her feelings with. She breaks up with her boyfriend and cries on your shoulder. Then goes back to the disrespectful ex. You can't say that all girls are so naive that they can't tell when someone has feelings for them.

 

[Ariseishirou]

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For the most part, I agree with you; I was talking about a very specific case. The guy I quoted, before he accidentally deleted both posts of a double post, was talking about a girl who really leaned on him for emotional support -- the kind of physical but not directly sexual support one usually gets from a boyfriend -- but when he needed some in return, she told him no.

Oh okay fair enough. I don't hug my guy friends or hold them or what have you. That's too far, and it could lead them on. If you're going to be someone's platonic friend, you have to treat them like a platonic friend. The only guys I interact with physically are the ones I'm willing to date, if they're interested. Sometimes they haven't been (I'm not their type, or they're interested in someone else), sometimes they have (and then we date and see if we hit it off). The friend zone works both ways. It's not the end of the world. I'm still friends with many of the guys who told me they just wanted to be friends with me - several of them are married now and we're still bros. There are other fish in the sea.

Hearing "women are all shallow bitches" or "men are all pigs" is extremely depressing and it sounds really immature. Some men are pigs and some women are bitches. Writing off an entire gender (or both, as the Ladder Theory does) as ruled solely by the lowest common denominator says more about the lack of character of the person making the claim than about men or women in general.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

It's not just a defence mechanism for guys who get rejected. You don't even have to ask out the girl to be put in the friend zone. For example you're they guy she goes to when her boyfriend hurts her. The guy she shares her feelings with. She breaks up with her boyfriend and cries on your shoulder. Then goes back to the disrespectful ex. You can't say that all girls are so naive that they can't tell when someone has feelings for them.

This is what I was getting at with the "why buy the horse when you can ride for free" comment. I'm not saying that all girls who put guys in the friend zone do this, but I think a lot of them enjoy the attention, and are quite happy to continue to receive it, and lead the poor guy on in order to continue receiving it while being free to date guys they find more attractive. Hence telling them things like "I'm just not interested in dating anyone right now" instead of straight up saying they aren't interested.

 

[Kahunaburger]

It's not just a defence mechanism for guys who get rejected. You don't even have to ask out the girl to be put in the friend zone. For example you're they guy she goes to when her boyfriend hurts her. The guy she shares her feelings with. She breaks up with her boyfriend and cries on your shoulder. Then goes back to the disrespectful ex. You can't say that all girls are so naive that they can't tell when someone has feelings for them.

That's generally just called "being a friend." It's pretty likely that a girl that relies on her male friends for emotional support also relies on her female friends for the same kind of emotional support. And do you know what girls you know have feelings for you? If not, don't expect similar psychic powers from everyone with two X chromosomes. If you're interested in someone, tell them - don't assume they'll somehow know.

 

[pulse2]

I have plenty of close female friends and to be honest, even if we had something slightly going initially, I've come to realise over time none of them would have been right for me, their veiws on life completely differ from my own. If it supposed to work out, it will, if not, there's probably a good reason for it.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Now before you say "but Joker I'm not an Alpha male and i got a GF" well that's because she couldn't get the Alpha male and settled for just the nice guy. just like you couldn't get the super model and settled for her.

But Joker, I'm a geek who posts on video game forums and I got a GF who looks like a supermodel.

Because, you know, she thinks geeks are fun and self-styled "Alpha males" are boring. The "Alpha/Beta/Omega" stuff is adapted from animals with a completely different social structure and reproductive strategy, and while it makes a good gameplay mechanic for Deus Ex 3, it makes a poor model of human social behavior.

 

[Joker7]

Now before you say "but Joker I'm not an Alpha male and i got a GF" well that's because she couldn't get the Alpha male and settled for just the nice guy. just like you couldn't get the super model and settled for her.

But Joker, I'm a geek who posts on video game forums and I got a GF who looks like a supermodel.

Because, you know, she thinks geeks are fun and self-styled "Alpha males" are boring. The "Alpha/Beta/Omega" stuff is adapted from animals with a completely different social structure and reproductive strategy, and while it makes a good gameplay mechanic for Deus Ex 3, it makes a poor model of human social behavior.

Well i did't say everyone.. heh besides your probably rich

 

[daftalchemist]

The Friend Zone is real, though I feel terrible about it. I had this really great friend who was a guy. He was my best friend during middle school (before he moved across the country). Unfortunately, he had a crush on me. I tried to see him in that manner because of how guilty I felt over not reciprocating, but it didn't work. He was my best friend, and nothing more. He was persistent throughout the time he lived in the same state as me, and that didn't help my feelings of guilt at all.

Yeah, but there wasn't a magical time when you would have been interested in him, would there have been? From the moment you met him and weren't attracted, you would never have considered dating him... right?

Cause the "friend zone" the OP is talking about the "if a guy waits too long to ask you out, you will no longer consider him a possible romantic partner" thing. Which I say is bull.

Sure, there are guys (and girls) who I don't consider romantic partners. I know a number of people who I don't find attractive and would never date, but who I am friends with. That isn't the "friend zone" as defined by the OP - that's just not being attracted to someone who you like as a friend.

I can't really remember that much, this was 7th grade. That's like...forever ago at this point. I think I did like him a bit, but when I found out he had admitted to liking me, that just made me feel beyond awkward, so then I stopped liking him. Low self-esteem and all that. That's not exactly the same thing, but I'd be willing to call it kind of similar as well.

But as far as what you're saying the OP was saying, that also exists. It's no secret I've had a crush on every single male friend I've ever had, but I've only ever dated two of them, and only one of them holds the title of "that one guy I still wish I had gotten a chance with, but I never will". So the rest of them got moved into the "Friend Zone", I suppose.

 

[Zaverexus]

http://www.laddertheory.com/

Ladder theory here to save the day!

I'm really, really, really hoping everyone reading the above link realizes it is not a legitimate scientific theory. And is attached to a site called "stupidness.com"

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

But Joker, I'm a geek who posts on video game forums and I got a GF who looks like a supermodel.

Because, you know, she thinks geeks are fun and self-styled "Alpha males" are boring.

I'd be inclined to agree with her on that. Self-absorption (common among self-styled alpha males) is boring.

The "Alpha/Beta/Omega" stuff is adapted from animals with a completely different social structure and reproductive strategy, and while it makes a good gameplay mechanic for Deus Ex 3, it makes a poor model of human social behavior.

Hell, not even that: It's based on old misconceptions about wolf pack structure.

 

[II2]

All I have to say is, if you thought that guy was persistent when you gave him an honest "no," you should feel lucky you didn't give him the typical, waffle-y friend zone response; it would have been 10 times worse.

Your probably right, but it's not him being persistent that I'm worried about, it was the fact that I lost so many good friends because of it... there's always part of me that wonders if I would have still been friends with them all if I hadn't just said no.

Maybe it's worth asking yourself just how "good" the friends you lost were, if they kicked you to the curb for being honest that you weren't into a guy (a good thing) and he got obsessed.

While that sorta thing sucks, I don't think you should beat yourself up over being honest; as long as you do so with a modicum of tact, you'll save yourself a lot of hassle in the long run and you'll have the respect from any *sane* suitor, even if they are unavoidably hurt.

Beyond that, learn from the past but don't live in it. What's next? > What if?

 

[swenson]

The Alpha/Beta/Omega thing is nonsense, in my opinion. Humans are far more complex than that. I'm female, and I can say that while yes, I'm more interested in a guy willing to stand up for himself and those he cares about than one who hides in the bathroom and cries, I am absolutely not interested in the sort of guy who always takes charge. I like relationships where the guy treats me as an equal, you know? I don't like and never have liked jocks or other pushy guys.

Actually, in my opinion, girls who are looking for that kind of guy have probably been emotionally hurt in the past, which is why they're looking for someone to take charge of them emotionally. Unfortunately, this is not a good way to live or a healthy way to build a relationship, which is why people get stuck in a cycle of abusive relationships. And... let's be honest, a lot of those so-called "Alpha" guys do end up being abusive. If you have a relationship where one person is always in charge and the other is always just meekly following behind, it is pretty much guaranteed to end up abusive. Maybe not physically, but emotionally. And that's why I am much more interested in "Beta" guys (if there is such a thing, which I don't believe at all) who actually care about me as a person than "Alpha" guys who only care about themselves.

I will say, though, if you're just going to be a wimp and let the woman in the relationship always take charge, you're not any better than the Alpha types. Grow up. And the same to wimpy girls, too.

However, I'm not a supermodel, so therefore my opinion on the matter obviously doesn't count.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

All I have to say is, if you thought that guy was persistent when you gave him an honest "no," you should feel lucky you didn't give him the typical, waffle-y friend zone response; it would have been 10 times worse.

Your probably right, but it's not him being persistent that I'm worried about, it was the fact that I lost so many good friends because of it... there's always part of me that wonders if I would have still been friends with them all if I hadn't just said no.

Maybe it's worth asking yourself just how "good" the friends you lost were, if they kicked you to the curb for being honest that you weren't into a guy (a good thing) and he got obsessed.

While that sorta thing sucks, I don't think you should beat yourself up over being honest; as long as you do so with a modicum of tact, you'll save yourself a lot of hassle in the long run and you'll have the respect from any *sane* suitor, even if they are unavoidably hurt.

Beyond that, learn from the past but don't live in it. What's next? > What if?

This guy has his head screwed on right. The guy who spread rumors about you must have been a scumbag to do that. Further, the way I read it, you friend zoned him for quite a while before honestly telling him how you felt; I have to wonder if any of this would have been as bad if you had been honest from the start. Regardless, if the guy was the sort to spread rumors, he's the kind to give you problems regardless of how you turn him down. As Il2 said, most guys will feel better about a clean no than they would if they thought you had led them on.

 

[AnkaraTheFallen]

All I have to say is, if you thought that guy was persistent when you gave him an honest "no," you should feel lucky you didn't give him the typical, waffle-y friend zone response; it would have been 10 times worse.

Your probably right, but it's not him being persistent that I'm worried about, it was the fact that I lost so many good friends because of it... there's always part of me that wonders if I would have still been friends with them all if I hadn't just said no.

Maybe it's worth asking yourself just how "good" the friends you lost were, if they kicked you to the curb for being honest that you weren't into a guy (a good thing) and he got obsessed.

While that sorta thing sucks, I don't think you should beat yourself up over being honest; as long as you do so with a modicum of tact, you'll save yourself a lot of hassle in the long run and you'll have the respect from any *sane* suitor, even if they are unavoidably hurt.

Beyond that, learn from the past but don't live in it. What's next? > What if?

They were always very good friends, we all separated more because one person took his side and the rest still wanted to be friends with that person who didn't want anything to do with me. so we just slowly lost contact.

I don't beat myself up over being honest, I just wish it hadn't turned out the way it had, but it's not like I can change anything now.

And if I'm honest another reason I tended not to just say I don't find the guy attractive, after this was because I'm gay and most of my friends were all catholics at school (I know not all are like this) but most people at my school were close minded and hated gays, so it was easier to just say I thought of them as a friend than to explain why I'm not attracted to them (which they always ask about).

 

[Blindswordmaster]

Ladder theory's correct, for the most part. I have women friends, and I do want to fuck them, but I know there's no chance of that. Then there are people I just enjoy spending time with.

 

[AnkaraTheFallen]

This guy has his head screwed on right. The guy who spread rumors about you must have been a scumbag to do that. Further, the way I read it, you friend zoned him for quite a while before honestly telling him how you felt; I have to wonder if any of this would have been as bad if you had been honest from the start. Regardless, if the guy was the sort to spread rumors, he's the kind to give you problems regardless of how you turn him down. As Il2 said, most guys will feel better about a clean no than they would if they thought you had led them on.

I said no as soon as the guy asked me, so I never 'friend zoned' him. And truthfully... as a lot of people have said the idea of a friend zoning because he waited too long seems made up to me by guys who can't handle the idea of someone just not being attracted to them.

(I understand when people mean that they are stuck being just friends with the person, but I don't agree with the belief some have, that if they had asked sooner the person would have said yes).

 

[Kahunaburger]

The "Alpha/Beta/Omega" stuff is adapted from animals with a completely different social structure and reproductive strategy, and while it makes a good gameplay mechanic for Deus Ex 3, it makes a poor model of human social behavior.

Hell, not even that: It's based on old misconceptions about wolf pack structure.

Haha, good point! Come to think of it, I can't really think of a single animal that behaves the way the pop culture theory would predict. Ethologists certainly don't use the terms the way pop culture uses them lol.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

This guy has his head screwed on right. The guy who spread rumors about you must have been a scumbag to do that. Further, the way I read it, you friend zoned him for quite a while before honestly telling him how you felt; I have to wonder if any of this would have been as bad if you had been honest from the start. Regardless, if the guy was the sort to spread rumors, he's the kind to give you problems regardless of how you turn him down. As Il2 said, most guys will feel better about a clean no than they would if they thought you had led them on.

I said no as soon as the guy asked me, so I never 'friend zoned' him. And truthfully... as a lot of people have said the idea of a friend zoning because he waited too long seems made up to me by guys who can't handle the idea of someone just not being attracted to them.

(I understand when people mean that they are stuck being just friends with the person, but I don't agree with the belief some have, that if they had asked sooner the person would have said yes).

Well, then, the "he was a scumbag" part applies in this case; a guy who will give that kind of trouble over being honestly and clearly rejected is going to be trouble no matter what. As for the time limit portion of the friend zone, that really does exist -- I know, because there are people who I can't personally think of in a romantic context because of that. The thing is, it's a matter of years of close friendship, not months or weeks like most people seem to think. About the only way for someone to get out of there is a fairly long period of little to no contact. Of course, when I talk about the friend zone, it has nothing directly to do with the time limit; more an area of limbo where two people are friends, but one wants more than that, and the other doesn't.