'Feminazi' is sadly one of the most common examples of Godwin in our society.
- Thread starter LilithSlave
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Except it's not a "figure of speech" except in the most meaningless sense which doesn't make it not a slur. Especially since, in practical use, it is not used as a comparison of extremism.mad825 said:
The problem I have with feminists is that in my experience they dont want Superiority[/I]. In the western world nowadays the amount of genuine sexism in the work place is at an all time low. Men and women are generally treated equally in society.
There is still an argument about Pay Scales I agree, but I tend to find that feminists are a little bit like PETA, Blowing things completely out of proportion.
There are gender imbalances in society, Take for example the fact that a woman can go out for a few drinks, pull a random guy, take him home and sleep with him, then accuse him of rape. Under UK law drunken consent is not consent, meaning he is guilty of rape. I dont see that as fair, but that's just a gender imbalance.
There is still an argument about Pay Scales I agree, but I tend to find that feminists are a little bit like PETA, Blowing things completely out of proportion.
There are gender imbalances in society, Take for example the fact that a woman can go out for a few drinks, pull a random guy, take him home and sleep with him, then accuse him of rape. Under UK law drunken consent is not consent, meaning he is guilty of rape. I dont see that as fair, but that's just a gender imbalance.
Modern grownup feminism has nothing to do with sex. Only gender. People use the term feminazi to refer to the act of hijacking feminism to be about men vs women etc. It appropriately encompasses the outlook held by those who identify as a FEMALE feminist or a MALE feminist. This thread is not helping people to approach feminism in a mature manner. It is the problem.
"Nazi" is another way of saying "fanatic" in this context, it only has to do with how hardcore you are into feminism, not with any of it's ideological aspects. I think it's a pretty simple thing too.
Would you expect some grammar fan to make a topic detailing the difference between grammar and nazis and decrying the term "grammar nazi"?
Would you expect some grammar fan to make a topic detailing the difference between grammar and nazis and decrying the term "grammar nazi"?
As for the whole feminist deal, I like the concepts it has but too often it's used to excuse misandry as an equalizing force, which is a form of discrimination thus wrong, even if for a honorable cause.
Why can't you just be a good person? What does feminism add to that really? I mean other than a pretty title and bragging rights, I'm talking about real ideological content. I think just being a good person is more than enough to over time achieve true equality and it does it without antagonizing people you won't ever be changing anyways.
Why can't you just be a good person? What does feminism add to that really? I mean other than a pretty title and bragging rights, I'm talking about real ideological content. I think just being a good person is more than enough to over time achieve true equality and it does it without antagonizing people you won't ever be changing anyways.
You make a really good point OP. The word Feminism has been slandered and misappropriated to the point where it is not uncommon to meet women who actually claim "I'm not a Feminist", something which I find rather distrurbing.LilithSlave said:
When I think "Feminist", I think of writers like Simone de Beauvoir and movements like the Suffragettes. Unfortunately, in N.America the public seems to associate the word "Feminist" with individuals who seem to arbitrarly blame/hate men.
In the Western world of 2012, the "glass ceiling" still remains a reality of many careers, traditionalist gender roles have not been completely eliminated and women are still underepresented in govenment. Sexism remains an isidious poison to our democratic society. Outside of the West, most of the world's women still live under the oppression of patriarchal society or are forced into the virtual slavery of the sex trade.
Anyways, I hope there are women out there who seek to reclaim ownership of "Feminist" as a word and as an ideology as we are far from genuine gender equality. Feminist should be a label to be proud of, not a slander or insult.
Also, those who whine that promoting women's rights, means trampling the rights of men are ususally bigoted butthurt losers who can't get a date. Elimination of male gender roles/stereotypes is something that most mainstream feminist thinkers have acknowledged for decades as an integral part of gender equality.
If I called you a grammar Nazi would you call Godwin's law? No? There you go then.
This old lady knows where it's at.GrandmaFunk said:
How many feminists have you met? Where did you meet these feminists who want "superiority"? Sexism may be at an "all time low", but that doesn't mean it's "gone". Casual sexism is as bad as 'genuine' sexism. Our society is still rife with gender expectations regarding the way people dress, groom and behave. The genders are hardly treated equally. How exactly do feminists blow things out of proportion? When was the last time a group of feminists did something- anything- you perceived to be extreme?Insanum said:
And, you know, the random guy can always just say no. He isn't an animal to be unable to refuse anyone who flashes him their tits. Also, rape cases rarely, rarely get convictions. She can take him to court and the guy can say "I didn't know she was drunk" and hey presto, freedom. Hardly the tyrinical law you make it out to be.
All the important battles in Feminism have already been fought and won, which means most people in our modern society are Feminists of one stripe or another, especially when viewed from an historical perspective. Ironically enough there is even a pretty good chance that whoever tipped you over the edge into posting your rant by using the term 'Feminazi' once too often, probably considers at least some of the social change done by Feminism over the years to be the unalterably right way of doing things.LilithSlave said:
Which means if everyone is at least partway a Feminist whether they like to associate with the idealogy or not, just who is a feminist anymore?
And the answer being more often than not someone out on the fringes of the mainstream making a lot of noise and drawing disproportionate attention to themselves. Hence the proliferation of the term 'Feminazi' that you find so objectionable.
Hope that helps.
I've been sitting here thinking, thinking, thinking.. and the *only* person I can think of who I've ever heard use this term is Rush Limbaugh. I know it's got to be more widespread than that since there are tons of people who listen to him spew venom daily (or is it weekly now? I don't know.), so obviously some of them would probably pick it up.
I'm with those who have said that it's not a direct comparison to the Nazis.. rather, it's a word assholes use to get a rise out of their feminist opponents.
On the subject of feminism.. I can get on board with the ideals of the movement, but I've met exactly one woman IRL who labeled herself as a feminist who wasn't a misandrist. Aside from her, I've managed to only come into contact with self-labeled feminists who co-opt the movement for their own personal vendettas against men. That makes me sad because I know there are a lot of women out there who aren't like that and that women who are just make what they're trying to do that much harder.
I'm with those who have said that it's not a direct comparison to the Nazis.. rather, it's a word assholes use to get a rise out of their feminist opponents.
On the subject of feminism.. I can get on board with the ideals of the movement, but I've met exactly one woman IRL who labeled herself as a feminist who wasn't a misandrist. Aside from her, I've managed to only come into contact with self-labeled feminists who co-opt the movement for their own personal vendettas against men. That makes me sad because I know there are a lot of women out there who aren't like that and that women who are just make what they're trying to do that much harder.
Then why is it used in a general sense in condescension towards feminists in general (or specific cases who are not particularly harccore)?Dreiko said:
Case in point: Candra Fluke is now a "Feminazi" because she spoke before Congress about a friend who lost an ovary due to a Catholic institution barring birth control (a treatment for MANY issues).
Now she's a "slut" and a "prostitute" and a "feminazi" who "can't keep her legs closed."
What about that implies extremism on HER end?
I have never heard anyone but extremist "all men are evil rapists/penises are the cause of all our problems" feminists referred to as "feminazis". I'm friends with quite a few feminists. They've referred to the extremists as feminazis.Zachary Amaranth said:
I'm pretty sure that negates your argument at least somewhat.
First of all, Studying law, and even if there isn't a prosecution the man still gets pulled through the judicial system and treated like a rapist. 'I didn't know she was drunk' isn't a defence in a rape case. Yes the guy can say no, but are you trying to suggest that every[/I] time someone goes into a club they have to say no to any advances (regardless of which gender the person in this scenario is) for fear of reprehension? That's naive.manic_depressive13 said:
You could say that about a lot of things - 'The woman doesn't need to apply for a job where she'll get less money than a man'...or...'A woman doesn't[/I] need to drive' Hell I cant even think of another example, and the latter certainly a joke nowadays.
Im not sexist, although I cant say im not prejudice. Why? One thing my education has taught me is EVERYONE is prejudice. Its only if people act on those prejudices in the form of discrimination in one form or another that needs to be avoided at all costs. So I'm not Consciously[/I] prejudice, and I give everyone a fair chance based on their own merits. Gender NEVER gets brought into it.
I cant give names & Dates of my visits from feminists, Im talking about my general experiences so far. I don't form opinions based on some sort of 'spin the wheel' format.
Allport's Scale of discrimination - Check it out.
Yes, personal anecdotes negate broader statements, especially ones with researchable and quantifiable use.ZeroMachine said:
The example I gave, for example.
But hey, I know black people who call people "niggers." The word must not be offensive!
I guess we're done here unless you wish to stop selectively ignoring the very topical example I gave (Which likely spawned this thread in the first place).
Otherwise, I've driven home drunk and not gotten caught or in an accident. all those claims about drunk driving must be false.
Not really?ZeroMachine said:
He just provided an exact example of someone who got called a feminazi who isn't an extremist.
And just because you know some feminists who use the word, doesn't mean all do or think its acceptable.
Its a stupid term, especially considering the people accused of it are often not extremists at all. Its just a silencing term, call her a feminazi and maybe she will shut up and we can carry on doing sexist things!
Also, WHY MAKE THESE THREADS???
Gamers in general are not the people to ask about feminism.
We haven't even started to sort out the sexism in our industry or community!
I can't even say I'm female without being sworn at, threatened or called an attention whore.
Obviously Godwin's law doesn't directly criticise the use of Nazism is discussion, but around the law has grown the idea that resorting to a comparison with Hitler, the Nazi regime, etc. is often far too simplistic and usually either 1) uncalled for or 2) inappropriate and misused.Istvan said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
Oh, I'm sorry, I wasn't aware of the term having been inappropriately used, now it definitely makes sense to want to remove it from our vocabulary because a single instance of a term being used wrongly by someone demands quick action!
No, wait, it doesn't. All your example shows is that feminazi, like all other WORDS, can be used appropriately and not, your example is in the latter category. It hardly means anything regarding the proper application of the term and what I was advocating here.