Feminism: has it gone to far?

[cyber_andyy]

My perspective on the subject:

I believe in common sense above all, and in this case I am a full supporter on feminism. However, like all things, this isn't a clear cut issue.

Maternity leave is the best example.

Here (UK), woman can get paid maternity leave for around 6 Months generally speaking, men can get a paternity leave for a smaller amount of time.

This to me seems perfectly fare, of course it it depends on who you work for, but I see this as something the family should think about. our bring something into the world that takes a lot of care and money. The woman should get maternity leave, they need to take this time of to bond with the child, and raise it. However, They shouldn't expect a ridiculous amount of free money. Its career or child. I personally believe at least one parent should leave work to raise the child full time. Who ever this is depends on the couple, but I don't think you should expect both.

This brings me nicely onto my next area: Employment. In the UK, anyone can become anyone as long as they have the requirements for the job. Excellent yes? well...not quite. Now, as a fact of life, man is best at somethings, woman better at others. For example, I can swing that hammer harder than a woman, where as the woman can aim that hammer better. It provides an interesting choice for employers, and not only that, in the business environment, With two identical candidates bar sex, who do you choose? The woman through fear of feminist backlash? The man because of Bros before hoes? The one you got on with the best? Again, no easy answers.

Easy answers are presented, in attitudes towards women. A woman is not a slut if shes sexual. She is if she bears the title 'Village bike'. Just like a man who goes around sleeping with as many people as possible, treating women like sacks of pleasure for his convenience, is a using, man-whore pig. The problem is...this isn't really pointed out by the layman. Girls notice it, some media notices it, but my mate Nathan, My mate Will, all don't. And hence the jokes about getting laid.

Note that the definition of a 'Slut' or a Man-whore is subjective, So I wont discuss my views here...another thread, another time.

Subjective are a womans personal views on what she wants as well. Some woman hate being hit on, so love it. Its all depends. (The same could be said for guys, but the distribution is much more weighted) This could be the ignition for the OP, where one womans hostile and misguided approach leads to the impression of feminism to far.

This last paragraph highlights the problem for me. The Gun at the start of the race. Feminism has been bad mouthed in recent years. Its gotten to point where all acts of feminism are considered hostile and absurd. A very vocal minority are like this, however most aim for a good goal. Just like a very vocal - not so - minority of men think with the wrong head.

Thinking with our heads is whats needed, we need to address the real issues of sexual discrimination. To women, and in some cases men.

 

[Hatchet90]

Feminism is a just another form of nagging.

 

[Ekonk]

You're treading on the thin ice above the deep waters of sexism here...

 

[Sindaine]

Yeah, I think so anyway. I read this blog where ladies plan to abort male fetuses--and only male fetuses--and plot to lure small boys in off the streets to murder/torture. Some think that males should be sexually-neutrilized--meaning their penis cut off and their testes removed--at birth, and one talked about how she loved to go around kicking men in the balls because she knew they wouldn;t report being attacked by a woman--and even if they did, it would be laughed off because girls 'can't' do that sort of thing.

Feminists are a scary, scary lot, and they make me ashamed to be female.

 

[ICanBreakTheseCuffs]

well since they are dying their vaginas and making vagina hanbags I think they have gone too far
and also,they have goe so far that my friend rustin is acting like a feminists

 

[cyber_andyy]

well since they are dying their vaginas and making vagina hanbags I think they have gone too far
and also,they have goe so far that my friend rustin is acting like a feminists

Wut

The

Fuck?

 

[fullbleed]

I personally think that the scales of equality between men and women are now in women favor. It used to be the complete opposite but that doesn't automatically give women the right to take advantage of them. If a woman hits a man nothing happens or if the man tries to call the cops then they say its nothing or the woman claims he was going to hit her and hes arrested, if a man hits a woman, bam, jail time, huge fine, etc. If a divorce occurs, who gets the children? Who gets the majority of the assets/money, who HAS to pay the other one? Not the man. Ever hear of a man getting sexually assaulted by a woman, maybe, but most likely not. This is usually because the HR department wont even believe them. Yet if a woman claims sexual harassment on a man, she can get away with it usually without any hard evidence. So in a nut shell, yea I think feminists have gone a bit too far. If anything we may need masculnists.

So you're saying... it should be ok for men to hit women?

Come on, I know what you're saying and you're wrong. While in those very small isolated examples women likely do have higher status than men, but far more women than men are assualted ro sexually or domesticly abused. There is still a huge pay gap in society between men and women. The Catholic Church still refues to accept female priests.

While all of this remains women are not equal in society, so therefore, feminism hasn't gone far enough. It's as simple as that, just because we've moved beyond 1950s attitudes towards women, they are still a long way from being equal. So what adverts so see it apropriate to take the piss out of men, yeah it annoys me but I take it because the white middle class man is still king and that's not right.

And then just think of places like Iran or other islamic states where women have almost no rights... Hopefully there wont always be a need for feminism.

 

[Neo10101]

I personally think that the scales of equality between men and women are now in women favor. It used to be the complete opposite but that doesn't automatically give women the right to take advantage of them. If a woman hits a man nothing happens or if the man tries to call the cops then they say its nothing or the woman claims he was going to hit her and hes arrested, if a man hits a woman, bam, jail time, huge fine, etc. If a divorce occurs, who gets the children? Who gets the majority of the assets/money, who HAS to pay the other one? Not the man. Ever hear of a man getting sexually assaulted by a woman, maybe, but most likely not. This is usually because the HR department wont even believe them. Yet if a woman claims sexual harassment on a man, she can get away with it usually without any hard evidence. So in a nut shell, yea I think feminists have gone a bit too far. If anything we may need masculnists.

So you're saying... it should be ok for men to hit women?

Come on, I know what you're saying and you're wrong. While in those very small isolated examples women likely do have higher status than men, but far more women than men are assualted ro sexually or domesticly abused. There is still a huge pay gap in society between men and women. The Catholic Church still refues to accept female priests.

While all of this remains women are not equal in society, so therefore, feminism hasn't gone far enough. It's as simple as that, just because we've moved beyond 1950s attitudes towards women, they are still a long way from being equal. So what adverts so see it apropriate to take the piss out of men, yeah it annoys me but I take it because the white middle class man is still king and that's not right.

And then just think of places like Iran or other islamic states where women have almost no rights... Hopefully there wont always be a need for feminism.

No, Im not saying it's OK for a man to hit a woman...unless she swings first. Just like if a guy swings first she should be able to hit him back. I'm not trying to condone fighting, just more equality. By the way, the catholic church thing, that first off is church, an organization that has been around for thousands of years and has its rules set in stone, I don't ever expect that to change, I am merely taking a governmental look at it, separation of church and state type thing. Also I wouldn't really classify the middle class white man as king, especially when the real seats of power in the USA is almost exclusively dominated by the rich. Yes the majority are white men, but there are the government officials that are of color and/or women. Yea, Ill give you the point on the pay grade thing, but then again there brings the point on when divorce happens, who gets whose money? Nothing will ever be truly equal, but I believe the scales could use a little more weight on the mens side as of now.
Also, on the topic of womens rights in other countries. I do hope that across the world men and women can be treated as equally as possible, but I live in America, and I like to take on one of George Washington's' philosophies, "We live in the west, and they in the east, so leave the problems of the east to the easterners and the problems of the west to the westerners."

 

[poet_lawreate]

I was actually talking to a painfully ditsy little teen that said men should owe women for everything that happened in the past. She actually said "my ancestors" when referring to such oppressed women. It's funny because she's dumb enough to think women are their own race, my ancestors were just as oppressed as hers, she has never experienced any of these things. She thinks rosa parks stayed on the bus for woman's rights. Funny that this girl is the same one that also said mexicans are all drunks (because according to her, mexico has no drinking age limit) and every "illegal" mexican should be shot.
I think that kind of opened me up to these "feminazis' view of the world. Very narcissistic.

You mean, you know one retarded, self-obsessed, racist teenager and you're using her to judge centuries of campaigners for Women's Rights? Well done, good judgement there.

 

[ReligiousNutEruption]

Please stop using the word "Feminazi" it's childish as fuck. Feminists aren't out to kill you, they just want equality. Grow up.

 

[cyber_andyy]

I was actually talking to a painfully ditsy little teen that said men should owe women for everything that happened in the past. She actually said "my ancestors" when referring to such oppressed women. It's funny because she's dumb enough to think women are their own race, my ancestors were just as oppressed as hers, she has never experienced any of these things. She thinks rosa parks stayed on the bus for woman's rights. Funny that this girl is the same one that also said mexicans are all drunks (because according to her, mexico has no drinking age limit) and every "illegal" mexican should be shot.
I think that kind of opened me up to these "feminazis' view of the world. Very narcissistic.

You mean, you know one retarded, self-obsessed, racist teenager and you're using her to judge centuries of campaigners for Women's Rights? Well done, good judgment there.

I don't think hes talking about feminists there, hes talking about a bad example of feminists, and what they do.

I can't see how you managed to extrapolate ' OMG ALL FEMINIST ARE NAZIS' out of 'So yeah I know a femininazi (Groan..) and shes batshit insane...'

 

[cyber_andyy]

Please stop using the word "Feminazi" it's childish as fuck.

Also: Can we? Please?

 

[Mimssy]

I was actually talking to a painfully ditsy little teen that said men should owe women for everything that happened in the past. She actually said "my ancestors" when referring to such oppressed women. It's funny because she's dumb enough to think women are their own race, my ancestors were just as oppressed as hers, she has never experienced any of these things. She thinks rosa parks stayed on the bus for woman's rights. Funny that this girl is the same one that also said mexicans are all drunks (because according to her, mexico has no drinking age limit) and every "illegal" mexican should be shot.
I think that kind of opened me up to these "feminazis' view of the world. Very narcissistic.

You mean, you know one retarded, self-obsessed, racist teenager and you're using her to judge centuries of campaigners for Women's Rights? Well done, good judgement there.

Ignore him. He also compared feminists to KKK members and I refuse to reply directly to a comment as ignorant as that.

 

[Mimssy]

You're treading on the thin ice above the deep waters of sexism here...

Oh, I think many people have fallen through the ice and are gasping for air. I have to stop reading this thread; it's making me a little too angry that all feminists are being demonized and painted as female supremacists.

 

[Eggsnham]

Yep; there's a difference between promoting equality and being obnoxious and stupid.

Coincidentally, I think people who really want gender equality should go by a different name than "Feminists". This way we can decipher between the nujobs splattering gems such as "All men are pigs and should die!" all over the place and the people who can put together reasonable arguments on real issues.

For instance on the relationship between gender and pay inequality. If your argument towards this is to say that all men suck and should die; please go away. Now if you want to really have a discussion, then by all means voice your opinions and for God's sake, employers, pay everybody at the same rate.

 

[Deacon Cole]

Ok...I don't want to start a war..or get shouted at...but I really think that feminism has gone a bit to far. I mean that I think that the feminists have done what they set out to do and now they are just trying to make them selves better then men.

Tell me what you think of feminism...and please don't flame me. Please?

The problem with things like this is twofold. One, when an organization like this is formed, it usually takes on a life of it's own and tends to outlive its usefulness, often with detrimental results. But the bigger problem is that no matter what, the goal of feminism will never be achieved. Not completely. Not so long as there are men and women. So long as there is a difference, there will be discrimination. That's the sad truth of it. Unfortunately, discrimination can go both ways, so now we have both women and men being discriminated against in various places and situations. You could say it balances out, but I say injustice is still injustice. But I don't think it will ever go away. Not until people stop being people.

 

[Labyrinth]

In summary: Equal means equal. I think in the more modern countries, women are equals now, but the annoying thing is that they keep pushing for more rights. They've become equal. What more do they want?

Yeah, they get on average paid less than men for the same work.
They're more likely to be assaulted, infinitely more likely to be raped, and more likely to be killed.
They're encouraged to be sexually repressed, because if you're sexual you're a slut. They're encouraged to be quiet around others because being outspoken is bitchy.
Femininity itself is associated with being vapid (like duh), shallow (all girls think about is shoes!), meek (save me, manly mansome!) and submissive.

Think about it for a moment. When was the last time you seen a woman start one of these 'has feminism gone too far?!' threads? Yeah, because it is almost always guys saying WOMEN ARE TRYING TO BE SUPERIOR NOW.

Err... no. Sorry. Not the case.

Reading this made me very, VERY happy. I do however wish to extend on it.

My approach to feminism, and yes, I'm one of THOSE people, is that it is about equality. Not just for gendered reasons (there are more than two) but it links in to the struggle for race equality and the struggle for sexuality equality. I'll go with the most obvious gender divide for now.

The second wave of feminism in the sixties saw a lot of women come away from the housewife-defined lives that conservatism in the fifties forced them into. We started to enter the workforce, and we're still increasing the proportion of women who work. This is great. Fantastic. Three cheers. Unfortunately for us we still get landed with all the domestic work. Raising children, housework and such are still resoundingly female areas, save for some very progressive households. We thought with the second wave we'd be having more jobs. Instead, we wound up doing everything.

What it comes down to is not what it means to be female, but what it means to be male. "Man" needs to be redefined for this whole thing to work. The masculine needs to include taking up housework and childrearing, all those typically feminine, and unpaid might I add, jobs. I think we also need to stop devaluing the role that home parenting and housework have, whoever does them. There's a very fine balance between encouraging women to take the opportunity to get out of the home and work, have financial independence, and deriding those who in full knowledge choose to be mothers and housewives. This respect will be helped by better gender equality in the home.

Some people are going to shout that I'm trying to make women superior in the home. If that's the case, they need to acknowledge their prejudice which states that housework is an inferior position. Or maybe the idea of a home dad appears to them to be forced feminisation. What horseshit.

 

[CarpathianMuffin]

Feminism is the practice of trying to achieve equality with men. Anything past that isn't true feminism. Unfortunately, it's been going down that road for a long time, leading to a lot of double standards.

 

[Kurokami]

Ok...I don't want to start a war..or get shouted at...but I really think that feminism has gone a bit to far. I mean that I think that the feminists have done what they set out to do and now they are just trying to make them selves better then men.

Tell me what you think of feminism...and please don't flame me. Please?

We're all sorta sexist, as are women, femanists haven't achieved what they're trying to accomplish. Mostly because they seem intent on making women virtually the same as men, or as you said, better.

IE: Women have boobs is seen as a sexist comment by some 'hardcore' feminists.

 

[Sinclair Solutions]

I am fine with feminists, to be honest. Let's face it, it's much harder to be a woman in today's society, as you can see from one of the posts. I am fine with woman trying to get equal pay, or cut down on rapes, or anything else.

However, what I do not enjoy is what people in this thread are calling "supremacists", or women who go off the handle for any thing that even resembles chauvinism to them. The common example is holding open a door. Now, wouldn't anybody here hold a door open for a person, regardless of their gender? Of course. But the obnoxious women who take offense to this bug me. I understand them, but I wish they wouldn't take such offense. People being considerate and polite is not the same as them being oppressive. There is a very, VERY big difference.

Yet, once you think about it, this is the same for any type of group. Christians, Jewish Rights, Black Rights, and so on. Most of the people who are passionate about their cause are civil individuals who I respect. But some are so passionate that they think the world is working against them and any display of courtesy is presented as pandering to them or disrespect. Sad.