FFXIII

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Ironic Pirate

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I disliked the combat from FFXII, I thought the action bar regenerated too slowly.

Is the new combat faster than that? Seems to be the general concensus, but I want to make sure.
 

Nmil-ek

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One word has made this a dissapointment for me "drama" thats all this is the plot is hakneyed seen it before a million times anime tripe as are the character achetypes, cheerful girl check, brooding chick check, brooding blonde male lead with a past check, tough chick with a past who slowly opens up check, perky kid with mommy issues check, token black guy the cohesive writing is truly astounding.
 

Zukonub

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Nmil-ek said:
brooding blonde male lead with a past check
He's hardly brooding, he's not the lead, but you are right that he has a past. What a cliche!
 

Onyx Oblivion

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Currently my RPG of the year. Knocked Mass Effect 2 off the perch.

Also is my favorite FF.

I LOOOOOOOOOOOOVE the linearity.
 

Zukonub

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Onyx Oblivion said:
I LOOOOOOOOOOOOVE the linearity.
I'm fine with it. There are so many good WRPGs out as of late that it is nice to not be thrown straight into an open-world. And if you don't want linearity, just go play one of the aforementioned good WRPGs.
 

Rush_Thores

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Yeah, since when did linearity betray what a jrpg is? And it isnt linear the whole time. Its the same when people are two hours in and keep complaining that the story is confusing. Give it some time, its worth it. It doesnt do everything an JRPG isnt at all. It just does thing different than what some people percieve a JRPG (or more specifically, a final fantasy) to be. Its fantastic really. It starts out slow as hell, but if you give it just a few hours, the characters grow and the story reveals itself and the combat evolves and it gets better and better.
 

Nomanslander

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Onyx Oblivion said:
Currently my RPG of the year. Knocked Mass Effect 2 off the perch.

Also is my favorite FF.

I LOOOOOOOOOOOOVE the linearity.
I like this post, finally some dismissal over ME2 being god like amongst RPGs......as much as I like that game, the praise has started to annoy me...=)
 

Sassafrass

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I think it's a good starting point for people new to JRPGs.

It has tutorials to teach you about the fight system and the ins and outs of that. It's not too difficult but also not too easy, although some boss fights can be a total ***** unless you work out the patterns and what to do pretty quickly. It's very linear in my 12 hours thus far but I have no problems with that.

Here lies a Preview (I'll stress that, PREVIEW!!!) I did [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.178502] of FF XIII which contains character bios, info on battle system and info on the Paradigm system. It's not the most informative thing ever but it should help you make a decision.
 

HyenaThePirate

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I think the problem for me is that without the ability to micromanage your groups and characters in and out of combat, the game feels "unrewarding". The combat system seems like a it took the prototype system from White Knight Chronicles and sped it up. For crying out loud, even the paradigms seem to be a water-down gambits system; one where Square "relieved" the player of all that messy setting up of gambits on your own. Now you get generated variations of different combinations, none of which seem to satisfy me personally. I'm willing to bet that you could probably beat your way through the game by not shifting a single time if you have enough potions on hand and a quick trigger finger.

Which leads me to my next issue with that system.. the games active battle speed. Half the time I don't feel as if I really 'won' a battle, but rather that my teammates won it while I was still faffing about with the menu trying to decide what move I wanted to use. One combination of abilities rarely feels different from any other, so it seems that you could just select "attack, attack, attack, attack, etc" and still accomplish the same goal. Also, i don't know if anyone else has experienced it, but the sensitivity for the controls seems far too light, which annoys me because sometimes while trying to get to my items i'll overshoot the selection about once every three times because the cursor whips by too fast.

What the game successfully does is makes me feel like a ferret on crack, trying to juggle expensive crystal vases coated in vaseline. I feel like the entire battle system at times is an over-complicated QTE... they could have accomplished the same thing by simply placing a gauge that moves back and forth rapidly forcing you to click it when it hits the "sweet spot" to initiate a random, visually busy attack. In fact, that might have been better, because at least I could relatively observe whats going on without all this 'pretense' of a deep battle system.

The problem is exasperated by the fact that I can't control ANY of my party members in combat, so I can't have them use attacks or spells that I know they have but don't use when I want them too. How is this a Final Fantasy game when I can't even control my own party? I searched the options, hoping for a setting that would allow me full control and to revert the game to a more standard turn-based combat system like they did in FFXII anticipating that their battle system might not go over so well with old-school rpg gamers, but alas, there is not one. So I'm stuck controlling ONE person who typically is not the person I want to control for a segment. Which I guess fits with their 'more action" appeal to mainstream players who enjoy the type of game where you can get by with pressing the x button repeatedly to win fights.

Finally, it feels empty not leveling up. I feel sometimes that the combat system has no "reward" because I don't ever feel like I'm progressing. At least with a grind, you get the joy that your taking time to fight every enemy will result in a more powerful party that will give you a slight advantage if utilized properly. Instead, every battle ends with a scoring system that makes me feel that I just won a fighting game. Given the combat system employed, this actually makes sense, because each battle FEELS like a fighting game rather than an RPG. All it needs is for an off-screen narrator voice to go "K.O.!" at the end of each battle as my opponent bounces in slow motion off the ground after colliding with my fist.

Another note... the transitions in this game are terrible. It seems that for the first dozen hours or so you run down one short corridor consisting of a pathway, a branching path, and a final pathway leading to a final location with several waves of enemies lined up between points A and destination C. Exploration is minimal, which is a shame because some of the set pieces in the game are visually amazing to behold. But then things always come to an abrupt end with a fade out and a few moments load a new scene. It seems that Square decided that the best way to eliminate long "loading screens" was to split them up into a hundred tiny loading screens as you zone in from one section to another, usually resulting in a switch to another character. Especially in the beginning of the game this can be a bit jarring since just as you get used to the combat and skills of one character, you are unceremoniously dumped into the shoes of another.

I'm sure the game works for some people though, many of which might be enjoying this new battle system but for me it robbed me of an experience I've waited 5 years for. I sincerely hope that this new change to the traditional jrpg system Square unleashed upon us brings in packs of new mainstream fans because they'll need someone to replace me. This marks the last time I'll ever get a final fantasy game on or near it's launch, and possibly the last time I'll ever buy one. The NEW Final Fantasy might appeal to hundreds of new-to-the-franchise players, but not to me.
 

King of the Sandbox

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HyenaThePirate said:
- a whole lotta snip-a -
Don't worry too much. The next game will have a whole new system for you to love/hate!

Dunno why they can't just pick a style and stick with it. That's what really bugs me. I mean, I went through the first, what, 6, 7?, games, knowing what I was getting into, with maybe a few variances to mix things up. Now it's all, "We're doin' a new FF? Get me a completely different, alien combat style for this one! Keep it fresh! Out of the box! Synergydynamics!"

/sighs
 

HyenaThePirate

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gagagagagagaga said:
HyenaThePirate said:
- a whole lotta snip-a -
Don't worry too much. The next game will have a whole new system for you to love/hate!

Dunno why they can't just pick a style and stick with it. That's what really bugs me. I mean, I went through the first, what, 6, 7?, games, knowing what I was getting into, with maybe a few variances to mix things up. Now it's all, "We're doin' a new FF? Get me a completely different, alien combat style for this one! Keep it fresh! Out of the box! Synergydynamics!"

/sighs
Exactly. I think you've hit the nail on the head there.
I think what Final Fantasy had going for it in it's heyday were a gaming "Holy trinity" of Combat System, Graphics, and Compelling story. This is what made Final Fantasy the king of all Jrpgs in the market.

"Compelling Story" apparently was shed after Final Fantasy IX in favor of a more exciting combat system and a big budget, movie-style graphics and cut scenes "films".

"Rich, Rewarding Combat system" arguably was discarded after Final Fantasy X-2.

The problem I think is that there has been such an emphasis on Visual design in the series now that I'm reasonably certain the majority of their staff must be nothing but animators. In fact, the more I play FF XIII, the more I feel that they designed the action movie sequences first, all the visuals, and then wrote a story around the movie they made. And then they looked and said "hey we can make poodles of money if we make the game LESS "rpg nerdy" and more "God of War" actiony!" I'm convinced of that this was their impetus so that anyone playing could hit "x" over and over and enjoy watching more of the amazing combat moves on screen as opposed to looking at menus.

But for me it's just the opposite. Half the time I'm trying to look at the menu and quickly choose something to do to the point that I can barely choose between attackers. The battlefield feels cramped and full of sensory overload, so I never really feel anything rewarding from my actions. It always feels that I won simply by mashing "auto-battle" as quickly as possible while wrestling for the items menu. Then at the end, there is no "XP gained", so again, when I see "5 stars" pop up, I don't ever really feel a sense of accomplishment.

This is not to say the game is BAD, just a bit disappointing. It's definitely not something I can say the wait was worth it. In reality, it feels like what will go down as a rather mundane entry in the series and if there are any other studios out there with the capital to make a big budget rpg, they should use this opportunity to knock Final Fantasy off it's pedastal as the king of RPG's.
 

TheSupremeForce

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You're entitled to your opinion, but I find 13 to be a massive improvement in just about every way (even though there's only been one FF in which I disliked the combat and that was 8). In particular, I'm enjoying the story more than that of any FF since the SNES days. Though I did thoroughly enjoy 9, I wasn't overly impressed by the stories of 7 or 8. Again, it's a matter of opinion.
 

Plinglebob

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I've been playing FFXIII and it feels more like an FF game then XII did with the best comparison I can really think of being FFX. In regards to some of the more specific complaints:

Story - I didn't find it hard to follow the story at all. I agree that at the start the characters can seem annoying, there is a reason for that as they actually have (fairly) believable character growth which means you end up forgiving Square for the slow start (just wait till chapter 8, its a doozy!). Also, this is a series where in the last 5 main iterations we've had a ssuper-soldier clone that steals someones identity, a witch travelling back in time to destroy it, a BBEG creating puppets with monkey tails to destroy the earth, a memory of the dead trying to kill a manifestation of hate and a political story that I fell asleep in (didn't like XII). IF you went into this expecting a plot to make sense from the beginning you didn't do your homework.

Linearity - X, which has been regarded as one of the better in the series, was just as linier yet nobody seemed to kick up too much of a fuss. I admit I'm bias here as I love liniar games. I realise that some people don't (yet they still play FPS's, but thats another argument), but why should games be like that. Again, all the FF's have been what I term interactive novels. You start at the beginning and work your way to the end following a very enjoyable story along the way. Why is this a bad thing? There is a market for it and it not being as popular as it once was doesn't mean they should stop making the games.

Combat - I will admit I'm not a fan of the combat. With the previous FF's the battles were at a slower pace which I always enjoyed as it game you time to think. However, while the friendly AI can be a bit think at times, its a system that works and I know others who have liked the system so I can't complain too much.

Anyway, there is one thing I think we can all agree on, it is very very pretty. I know its cliche but on a couple of the FMV's my jaw really did drop and some of the backgrounds are also stunning to look at.
 

Grampy_bone

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FF13 makes a poor first impression. You may be wowed by nifty cutscenes and smooth HD graphics, but the initial combat and gameplay offerings are utterly disappointing.

FF10 gave you access to the Sphere Grid and character swapping immediately. The game became more complex as they added more characters. FF10-2 gave you dresspheres and let you swap them immediately. FF12 didn't give you gambits for several hours, and it sucked because of it. But at least in all those games even if the fancier mechanics were held back your characters could always gain exp and level up.

In FF13 you can't gain levels for at least 2-3 hours into the game. I get that the battle system is kinda crazy and they wanted to make sure you were ready for it, and that the ability for the characters to increase in power is actually tied to the story, but goddammit those first three hours were boring as hell. Fighting one battle after another with only basic attacks? LAME.

Once you get access to the leveling system and paradigm mechanics, the game becomes much more fun. Even more so once you get the ability upgrade your equipment.

As for the combat itself, it most closely resembles the system from FF10-2. Real time, mid-battle class changes, variable time bars, delays and interrupts, even the mech-like summons. Removing MP (really, I'm sick of mana and MP) and junk stats like accuracy and luck is a move I approve of.

For anyone who says the player input doesn't matter, or that the paradigm system is pointless; well, you are wrong. Either you aren't very far into the game, or you have no idea how to play it. Correctly managing your paradigm roles is the difference between a battle that lasts 5 minutes and a battle that lasts 30 seconds. The combat system is full of nuances and depth. For instance it pays to know when to use physical attacks vs magic attacks vs elemental physical attacks. Magic from a commando has a different effect compared to magic from a ravager. These are the kinds of things you need to pay attention to if you want to master the game.
 

Grampy_bone

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Meilow said:
Final Fantasy (and Square-Enix in general) lost its spark with me after playing FF12. I thought the company might redeem itself with "Infinite Undiscovery." Holy shit was I wrong. Maybe "Last Remnant" will be better? Oh-ho, you sly fuckers, fooled me again!

I'm not saying FF13 is a bad game. Its just lacking everything that makes Final Fantasy, Final Fantasy (including the outrageous, ridiculous, and often times retarded hair cuts).
Infinite Undiscovery was made by Tri-Ace, and The Last Remnant was made by the SaGa team, neither of which have anything to do with Final Fantasy, other than being from the same publisher. Do you blame Bioware for Dante's Inferno, because they work for the same publisher?

I don't think you know what makes Final Fantasy "Final Fantasy."
 

duchaked

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if anything, I'm gonna rent it
and if it clicks, I can borrow it from a friend who got it (maybe)

in the end, I've never been so into the genre (outside of FF7, but that's about it)

I guess for me it's got new things to try out
I mean the story is familiar (female Cloud? they admitted it), and the combat system seems complex but possibly rewarding sooo when I have more time haha
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
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Julianking93 said:
I've only ever liked 1 other Final Fantasy mainly because I hate turn based combat, but FFXIII is now easily one of my all time favorite games.

Its a must buy
The fighting is pretty cool (once it opens up to you).

It's like managing your own sports team, but instead of athletes they're swordwielding mages.
 

Space Spoons

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I think it's the perfect game to get into if you don't have a lot of experience with Final Fantasy games or JRPGs at large.

The story, like every other game in the series, is completely independent, though there are a few references and in-jokes that are likely to fly over your head if you're not familiar with the franchise. You'll definitely get more out of it if you're a fan, but if you're not, it's still a really enjoyable romp. It's a bit slow to start up, but it grows on you.

As for the battle system, it's much simpler than previous systems, but also more dynamic. The only member of your 3-man party you control directly is the leader, with the others being directed via their assigned "roles", such as "Commando (Fighter)", "Ravager (Black Mage)" and "Medic (White Mage/Healer)". You can switch the roles of your party members on the fly as needed, something you'll have to master as the game gets more challenging.

Ultimately, I think it's the perfect jumping-on point for Final Fantasy. It's pretty much built from the ground up to be an entirely new and different type of JRPG, and for players who've been avoiding the series for fear of outdated (but nonetheless entertaining to longtime FF vets) turn-based systems, this is something to consider.
 

kawaiiamethist

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Space Spoons said:
I think it's the perfect game to get into if you don't have a lot of experience with Final Fantasy games or JRPGs at large.

Ultimately, I think it's the perfect jumping-on point for Final Fantasy. It's pretty much built from the ground up to be an entirely new and different type of JRPG, and for players who've been avoiding the series for fear of outdated (but nonetheless entertaining to longtime FF vets) turn-based systems, this is something to consider.
I'm inclinded to strongly disagree. The game mechanics are just too different from a run of the mill JRPG and the bosses are very tough. I'm a seasoned Final Fantasy player and even I struggled with certain bosses. I can see a lot of players rage quitting and going on to something else - unless they're the masochistic type.

Plinglebob said:
Linearity - X, which has been regarded as one of the better in the series, was just as linier yet nobody seemed to kick up too much of a fuss.
Linear, yes, but they mixed it up with blitzball, summoner trials, and various mini games. XIII, for the most part, is just walking forward and battling. I've played most of the games and love JRPGs in general, so I'm fine with linearity, but it would have been nice to be given more to do.
 

EuanMack

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honestly.... im a life long fan of all FF games and i am having to force myself to play it, its really lost its flaire in this one