Sorry I'm not reading this until you put full stops and commas in. This isn't Twitter you've written enough to justify a tad of grammar.Maximum Bert said:
Fighting Game Mains
- Thread starter TristanBelmont
- Start date
Injustice: Gods Among Us - Superman, Shazam, Green Lantern (John Stewart), The Flash, Nightwing, Bane, Lex Luthor
Skullgirls Encore - Filia, Parasoul, Cerebella, Ms. Fortune, Valentine, Fukua
Super Street Fighter IV - Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Cammy, Cody, Gouken, Guy, Dan, Chun-Li, M. Bison
Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 - Spiderman, Wolverine, Hulk, Captain America, Deadpool, Zero, Ryu, Akuma, Strider HiRyu, Chun-Li, Chris, Viewtiful Joe, Felicia, Morrigan
Skullgirls Encore - Filia, Parasoul, Cerebella, Ms. Fortune, Valentine, Fukua
Super Street Fighter IV - Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Cammy, Cody, Gouken, Guy, Dan, Chun-Li, M. Bison
Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 - Spiderman, Wolverine, Hulk, Captain America, Deadpool, Zero, Ryu, Akuma, Strider HiRyu, Chun-Li, Chris, Viewtiful Joe, Felicia, Morrigan
Danny Dowling said:
Haha, in those games, you don't really have a main though, you have a "main team", which is the same principle. Overall though, you're indeed clawing at something which is true!
Indeed in those games you kinda have to spread around the love in a way, since they're built thus. Therefore mastery of the utomost level is delayed by a two thirds margin. Often times, people tend to use their "point character" as their real "main" and only have the other one(s) as assist/specific combo tools but with whom they're significantly worse than the "point char" who does most of the fighting.
Overall, this system is inherently bad for this sort of high level mastery and revolves more around synergy and not as much the mastery of all the characters but rather their cohesive use as a unit. Therefore, being someone who likes actual character mastery instead of relegating certain characters to support-status, I heavily dislike those sort of games. (Amaterasu is a huge example of that, I wanted her to be usable as something more than an assist for 80% of the time, this is likely why I only had interest in marvel for 3 weeks time before dropping it and returning to Blazblue
)You can have this thing called a "sub". This is what most competitive tournament players do. They have a main and a crapton of subs which to a terrible normal human would look like they're "god tier" while if you asked the actual tournament player he'd tell you he's terrible with all of his subs which you think are amazing and he'd list faults which you would not notice if not even comprehend.
This is how the tekken player you mention is explained. He has a few subs which are good for certain matchups. Eventually once you get past a certain level with a game you can select random and do ok vs people who are even a little less skilled than you are because you comprehend the game systems so well and you know how to block and punish everything that even if you don't know every single trick every single char can do you still win easily regardless. I know this from personal experience, in fact, as I can use every single character in BB other than Arakune and Taokaka, yet I still only consider Bang as my main in that game. I can beat people with the random char select easily but that doesn't mean Bang isn't superior by a whole lot.
Don't confuse match results with char proficiency. You can be just that much better than someone where even if you don't know how to play the char at all you can still demolish them with experience and reactions alone.
My list is just limited to a few games, mainly because most new fighting games I try I get frustrated when I have to relearn pretty much an entire system for every new series. Mortal Kombat X is pretty much the first fighter that I've really dug into since SF4 and I feel myself constantly under performing, from change of controller or vastly different mechanics? I don't know.
USF4: Guile, Poison and Ken
3rd Strike: Dudley and Alex, sometimes Q for the fun of it.
MKX: Cassie Cage (only character I've really tried out away from story mode)
USF4: Guile, Poison and Ken
3rd Strike: Dudley and Alex, sometimes Q for the fun of it.
MKX: Cassie Cage (only character I've really tried out away from story mode)
Guilty Gear Accent Core Plus: Bridget, A.B.A.
Skullgirls: Squigly is one of them, but haven't played it in I don't know how long
Smash Bros (the few times I've played it anyways: Donkey Kong
Edit:
Forgot that I play Guilty Gear Dust Strikers aswell, but my main in that game hsould be obvious I think: Bridget.
Skullgirls: Squigly is one of them, but haven't played it in I don't know how long
Smash Bros (the few times I've played it anyways: Donkey Kong
Edit:
Forgot that I play Guilty Gear Dust Strikers aswell, but my main in that game hsould be obvious I think: Bridget.
I don't play many fighting games, but here are my mains for the ones I do play:
Smash Bros.: Mr. Game & Watch (Melee); Ike, Wolf (Brawl); Shulk, Lucina, Ganondorf (Wii U/3DS)
BlazBlue: Jin (Calamity Trigger); Hazama (Chronophantasma)
Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm Revolution: Kakashi, Shisui
Smash Bros.: Mr. Game & Watch (Melee); Ike, Wolf (Brawl); Shulk, Lucina, Ganondorf (Wii U/3DS)
BlazBlue: Jin (Calamity Trigger); Hazama (Chronophantasma)
Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm Revolution: Kakashi, Shisui
Again, no. JDCR being the example; in his most well known tournament team of Heihachi/Armor King, Armor King was actually his first choice character from Tekken 6 and his strongest, he plays him second. Also, TTT2 doesn't really have a point character, it's just 2 characters that have to be equal.Dreiko said:Danny Dowling said:
Haha, in those games, you don't really have a main though, you have a "main team", which is the same principle. Overall though, you're indeed clawing at something which is true!
Indeed in those games you kinda have to spread around the love in a way, since they're built thus. Therefore mastery of the utomost level is delayed by a two thirds margin. Often times, people tend to use their "point character" as their real "main" and only have the other one(s) as assist/specific combo tools but with whom they're significantly worse than the "point char" who does most of the fighting.
Overall, this system is inherently bad for this sort of high level mastery and revolves more around synergy and not as much the mastery of all the characters but rather their cohesive use as a unit. Therefore, being someone who likes actual character mastery instead of relegating certain characters to support-status, I heavily dislike those sort of games. (Amaterasu is a huge example of that, I wanted her to be usable as something more than an assist for 80% of the time, this is likely why I only had interest in marvel for 3 weeks time before dropping it and returning to Blazblue
You can have this thing called a "sub". This is what most competitive tournament players do. They have a main and a crapton of subs which to a terrible normal human would look like they're "god tier" while if you asked the actual tournament player he'd tell you he's terrible with all of his subs which you think are amazing and he'd list faults which you would not notice if not even comprehend.
This is how the tekken player you mention is explained. He has a few subs which are good for certain matchups. Eventually once you get past a certain level with a game you can select random and do ok vs people who are even a little less skilled than you are because you comprehend the game systems so well and you know how to block and punish everything that even if you don't know every single trick every single char can do you still win easily regardless. I know this from personal experience, in fact, as I can use every single character in BB other than Arakune and Taokaka, yet I still only consider Bang as my main in that game. I can beat people with the random char select easily but that doesn't mean Bang isn't superior by a whole lot.
Don't confuse match results with char proficiency. You can be just that much better than someone where even if you don't know how to play the char at all you can still demolish them with experience and reactions alone.
You can have multiple mains to an equal top level, and no tournament player is going to use a character s/he's bad with... never ever. Even in a 9/1 matchup counterpick you absolutely have to know the character well of you'll be the 1, the loss.
I went to a tournament in London where Help Me played Lee/Lars; which has been considered to be his "team". That was the team he went to for all serious games and has huge team knowledge with. However, in the TTT2 Korean pro league he used Yoshimitsu/Paul. Completely different. Because he can use multiple characters to the same highest level. Fact.
And right now, more or less every other day, Knee is putting up 7 hour videos of him playing Tekken 7. Although famous as a Bryan player since T5, he is playing Claudio, Kazuya, Steve, Bryan, King.... tbh he's consistently playing the majority of the cast. And will likely then have a multitude of characters to choose from when it comes to tournaments.
Danny Dowling said:Again, no. JDCR being the example; in his most well known tournament team of Heihachi/Armor King, Armor King was actually his first choice character from Tekken 6 and his strongest, he plays him second. Also, TTT2 doesn't really have a point character, it's just 2 characters that have to be equal.Dreiko said:Danny Dowling said:
Haha, in those games, you don't really have a main though, you have a "main team", which is the same principle. Overall though, you're indeed clawing at something which is true!
Indeed in those games you kinda have to spread around the love in a way, since they're built thus. Therefore mastery of the utomost level is delayed by a two thirds margin. Often times, people tend to use their "point character" as their real "main" and only have the other one(s) as assist/specific combo tools but with whom they're significantly worse than the "point char" who does most of the fighting.
Overall, this system is inherently bad for this sort of high level mastery and revolves more around synergy and not as much the mastery of all the characters but rather their cohesive use as a unit. Therefore, being someone who likes actual character mastery instead of relegating certain characters to support-status, I heavily dislike those sort of games. (Amaterasu is a huge example of that, I wanted her to be usable as something more than an assist for 80% of the time, this is likely why I only had interest in marvel for 3 weeks time before dropping it and returning to Blazblue
You can have this thing called a "sub". This is what most competitive tournament players do. They have a main and a crapton of subs which to a terrible normal human would look like they're "god tier" while if you asked the actual tournament player he'd tell you he's terrible with all of his subs which you think are amazing and he'd list faults which you would not notice if not even comprehend.
This is how the tekken player you mention is explained. He has a few subs which are good for certain matchups. Eventually once you get past a certain level with a game you can select random and do ok vs people who are even a little less skilled than you are because you comprehend the game systems so well and you know how to block and punish everything that even if you don't know every single trick every single char can do you still win easily regardless. I know this from personal experience, in fact, as I can use every single character in BB other than Arakune and Taokaka, yet I still only consider Bang as my main in that game. I can beat people with the random char select easily but that doesn't mean Bang isn't superior by a whole lot.
Don't confuse match results with char proficiency. You can be just that much better than someone where even if you don't know how to play the char at all you can still demolish them with experience and reactions alone.
You can have multiple mains to an equal top level, and no tournament player is going to use a character s/he's bad with... never ever. Even in a 9/1 matchup counterpick you absolutely have to know the character well of you'll be the 1, the loss.
I went to a tournament in London where Help Me played Lee/Lars; which has been considered to be his "team". That was the team he went to for all serious games and has huge team knowledge with. However, in the TTT2 Korean pro league he used Yoshimitsu/Paul. Completely different. Because he can use multiple characters to the same highest level. Fact.
And right now, more or less every other day, Knee is putting up 7 hour videos of him playing Tekken 7. Although famous as a Bryan player since T5, he is playing Claudio, Kazuya, Steve, Bryan, King.... tbh he's consistently playing the majority of the cast. And will likely then have a multitude of characters to choose from when it comes to tournaments.
If you are indeed correct about all of the characters being equally good, that STILL means that he doesn't have a main lol. He just has a bunch of subs and no main, which is a possibility.
The reasoning is very simple, if he had put all the time for all of those characters into just two, wouldn't he have been better with those two than he now is with however many? If so, and I don't think you can say otherwise, it is indeed true that the "highest level" isn't really "highest" just "high" and thus there is more room for improvement.
Also, there's nobody on earth who will tell you they are at the highest level in any fighting game, ever. When I hear such talk all I take from it is that person saying this is full of crap.
There's just the cutting edge. You can ALWAYS, no matter what, reach a higher level. You only sacrifice that higher level to have multiple subs in games which are heavily unbalanced messes (9-1 matchup? what? what game is this? x.x) but most good competitive games aren't like that so people don't tend to do this too much. If you notice, most champions are character specialists who have used the same character for a long time. This is the power behind actually having a main. Of course there's exceptions when good players switch to new top tier chars and whatnot but those are not really the rule since they require a really badly balanced game to occur which isn't the optimal environment to study the benefits of having a main vs having a bunch of subs.
No. Potentially worse. Because by learning the other characters it further improves his ability to play against them, to understand the match up. That's an age old strategy for learning matchups; play the matchup learn the matchup.Dreiko said:The reasoning is very simple, if he had put all the time for all of those characters into just two, wouldn't he have been better with those two than he now is with however many? If so, and I don't think you can say otherwise, it is indeed true that the "highest level" isn't really "highest" just "high" and thus there is more room for improvement.Danny Dowling said:Again, no. JDCR being the example; in his most well known tournament team of Heihachi/Armor King, Armor King was actually his first choice character from Tekken 6 and his strongest, he plays him second. Also, TTT2 doesn't really have a point character, it's just 2 characters that have to be equal.Dreiko said:Danny Dowling said:
Haha, in those games, you don't really have a main though, you have a "main team", which is the same principle. Overall though, you're indeed clawing at something which is true!
Indeed in those games you kinda have to spread around the love in a way, since they're built thus. Therefore mastery of the utomost level is delayed by a two thirds margin. Often times, people tend to use their "point character" as their real "main" and only have the other one(s) as assist/specific combo tools but with whom they're significantly worse than the "point char" who does most of the fighting.
Overall, this system is inherently bad for this sort of high level mastery and revolves more around synergy and not as much the mastery of all the characters but rather their cohesive use as a unit. Therefore, being someone who likes actual character mastery instead of relegating certain characters to support-status, I heavily dislike those sort of games. (Amaterasu is a huge example of that, I wanted her to be usable as something more than an assist for 80% of the time, this is likely why I only had interest in marvel for 3 weeks time before dropping it and returning to Blazblue
You can have this thing called a "sub". This is what most competitive tournament players do. They have a main and a crapton of subs which to a terrible normal human would look like they're "god tier" while if you asked the actual tournament player he'd tell you he's terrible with all of his subs which you think are amazing and he'd list faults which you would not notice if not even comprehend.
This is how the tekken player you mention is explained. He has a few subs which are good for certain matchups. Eventually once you get past a certain level with a game you can select random and do ok vs people who are even a little less skilled than you are because you comprehend the game systems so well and you know how to block and punish everything that even if you don't know every single trick every single char can do you still win easily regardless. I know this from personal experience, in fact, as I can use every single character in BB other than Arakune and Taokaka, yet I still only consider Bang as my main in that game. I can beat people with the random char select easily but that doesn't mean Bang isn't superior by a whole lot.
Don't confuse match results with char proficiency. You can be just that much better than someone where even if you don't know how to play the char at all you can still demolish them with experience and reactions alone.
You can have multiple mains to an equal top level, and no tournament player is going to use a character s/he's bad with... never ever. Even in a 9/1 matchup counterpick you absolutely have to know the character well of you'll be the 1, the loss.
I went to a tournament in London where Help Me played Lee/Lars; which has been considered to be his "team". That was the team he went to for all serious games and has huge team knowledge with. However, in the TTT2 Korean pro league he used Yoshimitsu/Paul. Completely different. Because he can use multiple characters to the same highest level. Fact.
And right now, more or less every other day, Knee is putting up 7 hour videos of him playing Tekken 7. Although famous as a Bryan player since T5, he is playing Claudio, Kazuya, Steve, Bryan, King.... tbh he's consistently playing the majority of the cast. And will likely then have a multitude of characters to choose from when it comes to tournaments.
He is at the highest level. He's won every major he's played in this year iirc, he won EVO, topped Tekken Busters iirc. He hasn't "mastered" the game ofc but he is indeed at the highest most level. He understands the game, stages, juggles, punishes etc of majority of the cast to the point of being able to play against and being successful against the best players in the world with their chosen characters. That is the highest level of play is it not? Yes it is.
You dont have to read it to be fair. I admit I dont bother with proper grammar when writing on forums very often. As long as the words are clear and reasonably well spelt I assume others will be able to read it to a satisfactory standard.Danny Dowling said:
I was really just trying to stop the thread getting derailed into what constitutes a main but looks like we are heading down that slope anyway, pointless though the discussion ultimately is.
Mortal Kombat: Sub-Zero, Scorpion, Liu Kang
Super Smash Bros: Pikachu, Link, Mewtwo and I'm playing a bit as Zelda recently too
Super Smash Bros: Pikachu, Link, Mewtwo and I'm playing a bit as Zelda recently too
thing is the thread subject sort of lacks a degree a substance, so it was natural another side-discussion would happen in the thread.Maximum Bert said:
Let's see:
Street Fighter: Guile, Ken and Cammy
Mortal Kombat: Sub-Zero, Jade, Johnny Cage and Cyrax.
King of Fighters: I can play with any character, if i'm playing seriously it's usually a combination of Terry, Iori, K', Leona, Clark, Blue Mary, Mature and Ralf.
Tekken: Jun, Bryan Fury, Steve Fox, Eddy Gordo and Nina.
Soul Calibur: Ivy (Hard to play, but so cool to master), Mitsurugi and Taki.
SMB: I just like to change, but i'm good at playing Link, Marth and Zelda (i like how you can change between her and Sheik mid-battle).
Street Fighter: Guile, Ken and Cammy
Mortal Kombat: Sub-Zero, Jade, Johnny Cage and Cyrax.
King of Fighters: I can play with any character, if i'm playing seriously it's usually a combination of Terry, Iori, K', Leona, Clark, Blue Mary, Mature and Ralf.
Tekken: Jun, Bryan Fury, Steve Fox, Eddy Gordo and Nina.
Soul Calibur: Ivy (Hard to play, but so cool to master), Mitsurugi and Taki.
SMB: I just like to change, but i'm good at playing Link, Marth and Zelda (i like how you can change between her and Sheik mid-battle).
Smash Bros. - Captain Falcon. A nice blend of speed and power.
-Melee/Brawl - Game & Watch. He's so erratic, it makes him an immense joy to play.
-Wii U - Game & Watch / Duck Hunt. Game & Watch is still my man, but Duck Hunt's explosive can is a really fun mechanic to fiddle with, and his 3-hit smash attacks are devastating.
Ganondorf has also been a favorite since Melee. Who doesn't wanna play a truck with legs every now and again?
Mortal Kombat - Kabal. Really disappointed he's not in X. I'll be holding out on picking it up until he's introduced.
Killer Instinct - Spinal. Spooky, scary skeleton.
BlazBlue - Bang Shishigami. He has a giant nail on his back that he never uses.
-Melee/Brawl - Game & Watch. He's so erratic, it makes him an immense joy to play.
-Wii U - Game & Watch / Duck Hunt. Game & Watch is still my man, but Duck Hunt's explosive can is a really fun mechanic to fiddle with, and his 3-hit smash attacks are devastating.
Ganondorf has also been a favorite since Melee. Who doesn't wanna play a truck with legs every now and again?
Mortal Kombat - Kabal. Really disappointed he's not in X. I'll be holding out on picking it up until he's introduced.
Killer Instinct - Spinal. Spooky, scary skeleton.
BlazBlue - Bang Shishigami. He has a giant nail on his back that he never uses.
Bang actually uses the giant nail for two things, for his astral heat and for his new distortion. When something is that precious you keep it for the really big events.
I don't play a lot of fighting games but from the ones I do play...
Smash Bros: Lucas / Ness
Soul Calibur: Siegfried / Nightmare
Street Fighter 2: Vega
Bloody Roar (haven't played this one in ages, but I loved it as a kid) : Bakuryū
Smash Bros: Lucas / Ness
Soul Calibur: Siegfried / Nightmare
Street Fighter 2: Vega
Bloody Roar (haven't played this one in ages, but I loved it as a kid) : Bakuryū
Street Fighter: Adon as my main. I played Seth for a long time but decided to drop him due to inconsistency. He is still my favorite character but my performance with Adon is miles better.
Smash: My time with this game is extremely limited but I pretty much always go with Captain Falcon or Kirby.
Tekken: Never played it shame on me.
UMVC3: Wolverine, Akuma, Dr. Doom
MK: Cyrax (very sad to not see him in mkx yet) since moved to Raiden for MKX
Smash: My time with this game is extremely limited but I pretty much always go with Captain Falcon or Kirby.
Tekken: Never played it shame on me.
UMVC3: Wolverine, Akuma, Dr. Doom
MK: Cyrax (very sad to not see him in mkx yet) since moved to Raiden for MKX
Street Fighter 4: Claw, Dictator, Hawk, GiefTristanBelmont said:
Street Fighter Alpha 3: Claw, Ken
Capcom vs SNK 2: Claw, Boxer, Dictator, Yamazaki, Vice
King of Fighters series: Vice, Yamazaki, Leona
Last Blade 1 & 2: Setsuna, Lee
