Final Fantasy 7 Remake Full Review - I have thoughts. (spoilers at the end)

09philj

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
1,715
388
88
McElroy said:
CritialGaming said:
Actually I don't think that's true. I think those are the whispers trying to awaken Cloud to the truth of who he is and what he must do. So those scenes are just flashback scenes both to serve that point and also provide fanservice towards people who asked about the compliation stuff.
Yeah sure,
like when they try to push Wedge away from "impacting the story" or whatever, and how they stop Cloud from taking down Reno in the church ('cause y'know, they're not supposed to even fight there)
Maybe just admit that you want the fan-favourite characters to escape their destiny aka their deaths in the original game? :p
FF loves a thuddingly obvious metaphor and I don't see how anyone could interpret the Whispers as being anything other than a representation of the constraints of the original narrative.
 

Silvanus

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 26, 2020
5,674
1,371
118
Country
United Kingdom
CritialGaming said:
Actually I don't think that's true. I think those are the whispers trying to awaken Cloud to the truth of who he is and what he must do. So those scenes are just flashback scenes both to serve that point and also provide fanservice towards people who asked about the compliation stuff.
That doesn't square with what happens, though (pun intended).

They bring people back to life, and intervene to prevent deaths, solely when those deaths contradict the original story. Red XIII explicitly states that they're trying to keep "destiny" on track.

Methinks Square are laying the groundwork to allow fan-favourite characters to avoid dying. As they already allowed Zack to do.
 

CritialGaming

New member
Mar 25, 2015
2,170
0
0
Silvanus said:
CritialGaming said:
Actually I don't think that's true. I think those are the whispers trying to awaken Cloud to the truth of who he is and what he must do. So those scenes are just flashback scenes both to serve that point and also provide fanservice towards people who asked about the compliation stuff.
That doesn't square with what happens, though (pun intended).

They bring people back to life, and intervene to prevent deaths, solely when those deaths contradict the original story. Red XIII explicitly states that they're trying to keep "destiny" on track.

Methinks Square are laying the groundwork to allow fan-favourite characters to avoid dying. As they already allowed Zack to do.
It is possible that they are trying to outright retell the story in a different way
wedge, biggs and possible jesse live after all
but I didn't take that scene as that. It looked like more of Aertih's vision showing her what could have happened or something. I dunno man. It's a clusterfuck. Typical Nomura.
 

CritialGaming

New member
Mar 25, 2015
2,170
0
0
McElroy said:
CritialGaming said:
Actually I don't think that's true. I think those are the whispers trying to awaken Cloud to the truth of who he is and what he must do. So those scenes are just flashback scenes both to serve that point and also provide fanservice towards people who asked about the compliation stuff.
Yeah sure,
like when they try to push Wedge away from "impacting the story" or whatever, and how they stop Cloud from taking down Reno in the church ('cause y'know, they're not supposed to even fight there)
Maybe just admit that you want the fan-favourite characters to escape their destiny aka their deaths in the original game? :p
09philj said:
McElroy said:
CritialGaming said:
Actually I don't think that's true. I think those are the whispers trying to awaken Cloud to the truth of who he is and what he must do. So those scenes are just flashback scenes both to serve that point and also provide fanservice towards people who asked about the compliation stuff.
Yeah sure,
like when they try to push Wedge away from "impacting the story" or whatever, and how they stop Cloud from taking down Reno in the church ('cause y'know, they're not supposed to even fight there)
Maybe just admit that you want the fan-favourite characters to escape their destiny aka their deaths in the original game? :p
FF loves a thuddingly obvious metaphor and I don't see how anyone could interpret the Whispers as being anything other than a representation of the constraints of the original narrative.
Silvanus said:
CritialGaming said:
Actually I don't think that's true. I think those are the whispers trying to awaken Cloud to the truth of who he is and what he must do. So those scenes are just flashback scenes both to serve that point and also provide fanservice towards people who asked about the compliation stuff.
That doesn't square with what happens, though (pun intended).

They bring people back to life, and intervene to prevent deaths, solely when those deaths contradict the original story. Red XIII explicitly states that they're trying to keep "destiny" on track.

Methinks Square are laying the groundwork to allow fan-favourite characters to avoid dying. As they already allowed Zack to do.
Also I heard and interesting theory about the whispers in that they are the game's manafestations of the players themselves. Or the fans who demand the story plays out the "correct" way. And the ending forces the player to fight the whispers in order for the player to basically defeat their own literal expectations of what the game "should" be.
 

meiam

Elite Member
Apr 19, 2020
1,445
163
68
CritialGaming said:
Also I heard and interesting theory about the whispers in that they are the game's manafestations of the players themselves. Or the fans who demand the story plays out the "correct" way. And the ending forces the player to fight the whispers in order for the player to basically defeat their own literal expectations of what the game "should" be.
How dare people who brought final fantasy 7 remake ask for it to be final fantasy 7 remake! Haven't they played the wonderfully written final fantasy 13, 15 and kingdom heart 3, renowned for their wonderful storytelling and impactfull character, they should want the game to be that instead!
 

Asita

Answer Hazy, Ask Again Later
Legacy
Apr 4, 2020
2,823
420
88
Country
USA
Gender
Male
CritialGaming said:
Silvanus said:
CritialGaming said:
Actually I don't think that's true. I think those are the whispers trying to awaken Cloud to the truth of who he is and what he must do. So those scenes are just flashback scenes both to serve that point and also provide fanservice towards people who asked about the compliation stuff.
That doesn't square with what happens, though (pun intended).

They bring people back to life, and intervene to prevent deaths, solely when those deaths contradict the original story. Red XIII explicitly states that they're trying to keep "destiny" on track.

Methinks Square are laying the groundwork to allow fan-favourite characters to avoid dying. As they already allowed Zack to do.
It is possible that they are trying to outright retell the story in a different way
wedge, biggs and possible jesse live after all
but I didn't take that scene as that. It looked like more of Aertih's vision showing her what could have happened or something. I dunno man. It's a clusterfuck. Typical Nomura.
I'm not sure that's quite it, actually. I'm more wont to liken what I've seen to Rebuild.

And by Rebuild, I mean Rebuild of Evangelion, which started off retelling a streamlined version of the original series, but then took a left turn at the end of the second film and started following a markedly different script.

A somewhat frequent comment I've been seeing about this Remake is that it's really a sequel, and it feels like there's some truth to that.

The Whispers only really make narrative sense unless someone is actively trying to derail fate (which is to say, the original script/timeline). Their entire role in the story is to try and get everything back on track. They make a point of injuring Jessie, but then they leave as they only did so because that is all they needed to do to get Cloud back onto the Reactor 5 mission he was part of in the original story. Hojo prematurely figures out that Cloud's got false memories and is about to blow the lid on it, so the Whispers distract him and drag him off to keep his piehole shut (for now). The team makes it up to President Shinra's office earlier than they were supposed to, leading to a...shall we say "unscripted" confrontation with Sephiroth and Barret suffering a major case of 'sword in the chest'. He's not supposed to die there so the Whispers resuscitate him.

The actions and prominence of these Whispers practically scream that the story's about to go off the rails. That something (Sephiroth?) is creating a branching timeline that re-raises the stakes by creating an uncertain future which we don't know the ending to. And in that light, think on that last fight against the Whispers. Kinda feels like a classic Disk One boss, doesn't it? You know, the variant where you taking down the boss paves the way for the actual boss to take center stage?
 

Drathnoxis

Artificial Person
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
3,390
286
88
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Asita said:
I'm not sure that's quite it, actually. I'm more wont to liken what I've seen to Rebuild.

And by Rebuild, I mean Rebuild of Evangelion, which started off retelling a streamlined version of the original series, but then took a left turn at the end of the second film and started following a markedly different script.

A somewhat frequent comment I've been seeing about this Remake is that it's really a sequel, and it feels like there's some truth to that.

The Whispers only really make narrative sense unless someone is actively trying to derail fate (which is to say, the original script/timeline). Their entire role in the story is to try and get everything back on track. They make a point of injuring Jessie, but then they leave as they only did so because that is all they needed to do to get Cloud back onto the Reactor 5 mission he was part of in the original story. Hojo prematurely figures out that Cloud's got false memories and is about to blow the lid on it, so the Whispers distract him and drag him off to keep his piehole shut (for now). The team makes it up to President Shinra's office earlier than they were supposed to, leading to a...shall we say "unscripted" confrontation with Sephiroth and Barret suffering a major case of 'sword in the chest'. He's not supposed to die there so the Whispers resuscitate him.

The actions and prominence of these Whispers practically scream that the story's about to go off the rails. That something (Sephiroth?) is creating a branching timeline that re-raises the stakes by creating an uncertain future which we don't know the ending to. And in that light, think on that last fight against the Whispers. Kinda feels like a classic Disk One boss, doesn't it? You know, the variant where you taking down the boss paves the way for the actual boss to take center stage?
I just can't comprehend how someone tasked with making the faithful remake fans have been demanding for decades could look at the game and think "FF7 is alright and all, but what it's really missing is a metanarrative about the nature of linear storytelling!"

It's mind boggling. It's not even like FF7 has a straightforward plot in need of a twist to shake things up. The plot of FF7 is actually pretty darn convoluted as it is!

EDIT: I just remembered the most important question about the remake that I don't think I've heard answered:
Does Cloud cross dress in the remake? And does he look good in a dress?
 

CritialGaming

New member
Mar 25, 2015
2,170
0
0
Drathnoxis said:
EDIT: I just remembered the most important question about the remake that I don't think I've heard answered:
Does Cloud cross dress in the remake? And does he look good in a dress?
Yes and he looks fabulous.
 

Asita

Answer Hazy, Ask Again Later
Legacy
Apr 4, 2020
2,823
420
88
Country
USA
Gender
Male
Drathnoxis said:
EDIT: I just remembered the most important question about the remake that I don't think I've heard answered:
Does Cloud cross dress in the remake? And does he look good in a dress?
He does. And I'll let you judge that. Cloud, Tifa and Aerith each have three dress options for the quest, so here's Cloud, here's Tifa, here's Aerith, and here's the lot of them meeting Corneo. Side note: Aerith's scene varies much more than the others.
 

Drathnoxis

Artificial Person
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
3,390
286
88
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Asita said:
Drathnoxis said:
EDIT: I just remembered the most important question about the remake that I don't think I've heard answered:
Does Cloud cross dress in the remake? And does he look good in a dress?
He does. And I'll let you judge that. Cloud, Tifa and Aerith each have three dress options for the quest, so here's Cloud, here's Tifa, here's Aerith, and here's the lot of them meeting Corneo. Side note: Aerith's scene varies much more than the others.
Hahaha, pretty good. I think the first is my preference. What the heck is with Aeris panting in the crowd? Creepy. Is there an unlockable costume option to wear the dress the whole game? Because there should be.
 

dscross

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 26, 2020
1,264
8
43
Country
United Kingdom
I'm currently playing through the original again before I think about getting remake. It may not be my favourite Final Fantasy but it's still a classic that tells a great story with some great payoffs and awesome pacing in that beginning section. There's some great mystery and intrigue with what's to come.

I've a feeling I won't like the changes because I really don't see how they can tell the story differently without ruining it, but I'll try and be open-minded when I finally play it. At least I know roughly the crack with the ending so I won't be taken by surprise, which probably would have been worse.
 

PsychedelicDiamond

Wild at Heart and weird on top
Legacy
Apr 4, 2020
1,546
198
68
I finished the game two days ago and it was a bit of a weird experience because unlike what I assume this games target audience to be, I didn't grow up with Final Fantasy 7 or what I understand to be its rather vast expanded universe. What can I say, I was a Nintendo kid. While I do know a thing or two about the game from cultural osmosis alone this was my first direct exposure to Final Fantasy 7.

I will say, as a newcomer, there was some stuff that seemed vague and underexplained to me when it comes to lore, backstory and metatextual themes, though maybe the sequels will elaborate on that. However, I will say, I could follow the basic plot just fine. You are a mercenary, you are in a city ruled by an evil megacorporation working for a resistance group, you meet a girl who turns out to be descended from something like elves, she gets kidnapped by the evil corporation, you rescue her. People like Jim Sterling go on about how "subversive" it is in relation to the original but I simply don't have the context to judge that. That being said:

I fucking loved this. It was certainly not quite what I expected, it felt, much of the time, less like an RPG and more like an Naughty Dog style cinematic action game with emotional und action setpieces connected by mostly linear level (And as a matter of fact, I felt the four more open ended chapters were where the game was at its weakest) but unlike something like Last of Us or Uncharted I actually cared for this story and those characters and the world they live in. It's a game that took me about 40 hours to finish and it never got old for me. For one, because the combat was quite fun, once I got the hang of it, but also because the presentation and writing were, for most of the game, absolutely stellar. There were points where I was literally smiling from ear to ear, simply from how disarmingly charming the game was. Scenes like Wedge introducing me to his cats, or picking flowers with Aerith actually made me fall in love with these characters. Or, hell, the fact that the game actually had an elaborate, Moulin Rouge inspired musical sequence.

Playing FF7Re actually left me with a similar feeling as seeing Star Wars for the first time did. It fully engrossed me in the world it was depicting all the way from its beginning to it action packed finale. The last two chapters had some of the most baroque action setpieces in both gameplay and cutscenes I've ever seen in any visual medium. It might have overdone it a bit in the last chapter, where you get pulled into another dimension, fight something like a god (seemingly just because "that what you do at the end of a JRPG" because the plot really didn't need it) and what even I as a newcomer know is the main antagonist of the original game right after. The last chapter might have leaned a bit too deply into spectacly for spectacles sake but how could I be angry about it when it ends on such a strong note otherwise?

So, I know this sounds like shameless gushing about a game I loved but what can I say? I had a great time with it. I can't wait for the sequel. People will now probably tell me how disrespectful it is to the original and how I'd hate it if I had played that but as far as I'm concerned, it was a hell of an opener.
 

CritialGaming

New member
Mar 25, 2015
2,170
0
0
PsychedelicDiamond said:
I finished the game two days ago and it was a bit of a weird experience because unlike what I assume this games target audience to be, I didn't grow up with Final Fantasy 7 or what I understand to be its rather vast expanded universe. What can I say, I was a Nintendo kid. While I do know a thing or two about the game from cultural osmosis alone this was my first direct exposure to Final Fantasy 7.

I will say, as a newcomer, there was some stuff that seemed vague and underexplained to me when it comes to lore, backstory and metatextual themes, though maybe the sequels will elaborate on that. However, I will say, I could follow the basic plot just fine. You are a mercenary, you are in a city ruled by an evil megacorporation working for a resistance group, you meet a girl who turns out to be descended from something like elves, she gets kidnapped by the evil corporation, you rescue her. People like Jim Sterling go on about how "subversive" it is in relation to the original but I simply don't have the context to judge that. That being said:

I fucking loved this. It was certainly not quite what I expected, it felt, much of the time, less like an RPG and more like an Naughty Dog style cinematic action game with emotional und action setpieces connected by mostly linear level (And as a matter of fact, I felt the four more open ended chapters were where the game was at its weakest) but unlike something like Last of Us or Uncharted I actually cared for this story and those characters and the world they live in. It's a game that took me about 40 hours to finish and it never got old for me. For one, because the combat was quite fun, once I got the hang of it, but also because the presentation and writing were, for most of the game, absolutely stellar. There were points where I was literally smiling from ear to ear, simply from how disarmingly charming the game was. Scenes like Wedge introducing me to his cats, or picking flowers with Aerith actually made me fall in love with these characters. Or, hell, the fact that the game actually had an elaborate, Moulin Rouge inspired musical sequence.

Playing FF7Re actually left me with a similar feeling as seeing Star Wars for the first time did. It fully engrossed me in the world it was depicting all the way from its beginning to it action packed finale. The last two chapters had some of the most baroque action setpieces in both gameplay and cutscenes I've ever seen in any visual medium. It might have overdone it a bit in the last chapter, where you get pulled into another dimension, fight something like a god (seemingly just because "that what you do at the end of a JRPG" because the plot really didn't need it) and what even I as a newcomer know is the main antagonist of the original game right after. The last chapter might have leaned a bit too deply into spectacly for spectacles sake but how could I be angry about it when it ends on such a strong note otherwise?

So, I know this sounds like shameless gushing about a game I loved but what can I say? I had a great time with it. I can't wait for the sequel. People will now probably tell me how disrespectful it is to the original and how I'd hate it if I had played that but as far as I'm concerned, it was a hell of an opener.
I'm so glad to hear that the game converted you to the universe. I was wondering how the game would feel to someone not already pre-invested in the characters and story, which you answered for me. Turns out that it goes over quite well and I really am happy that you fell in love with the characters much the way I did back in 1997. It proves just how good these characters actually are, and why they've stood the test of time. I wonder if we will remember Nathan Drake the way we remember Aerith or Sephiroth in 30 years.

That being said, as a fan of the original beyond belief, I didn't mind the crazy ending that has other people up in arms. Frankly I just wanted more chances to be in this world and the story didn't quite matter as much as hanging out with Cloud, Tifa, Barrett, and Aerith did. So whatever they wanna change, I'm down for. After all you can still go play the original if you want to just have the original story.
 

dscross

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 26, 2020
1,264
8
43
Country
United Kingdom
PsychedelicDiamond said:
So, I know this sounds like shameless gushing about a game I loved but what can I say? I had a great time with it. I can't wait for the sequel. People will now probably tell me how disrespectful it is to the original and how I'd hate it if I had played that but as far as I'm concerned, it was a hell of an opener.
Are you going to now go back and play the original if you liked it so you can get some context for the bits you found underexplained?
 

PsychedelicDiamond

Wild at Heart and weird on top
Legacy
Apr 4, 2020
1,546
198
68
dscross said:
PsychedelicDiamond said:
So, I know this sounds like shameless gushing about a game I loved but what can I say? I had a great time with it. I can't wait for the sequel. People will now probably tell me how disrespectful it is to the original and how I'd hate it if I had played that but as far as I'm concerned, it was a hell of an opener.
Are you going to now go back and play the original if you liked it so you can get some context for the bits you found underexplained?
Maybe I should but for one, I still assume the sequels will get into those, and also, I find turn based RPGs very hard to put up with. I know I'm missing out on some classic games because of that attitude but, you know, I just lack the patience for that kind of combat.
 

dscross

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 26, 2020
1,264
8
43
Country
United Kingdom
PsychedelicDiamond said:
dscross said:
PsychedelicDiamond said:
So, I know this sounds like shameless gushing about a game I loved but what can I say? I had a great time with it. I can't wait for the sequel. People will now probably tell me how disrespectful it is to the original and how I'd hate it if I had played that but as far as I'm concerned, it was a hell of an opener.
Are you going to now go back and play the original if you liked it so you can get some context for the bits you found underexplained?
Maybe I should but for one, I still assume the sequels will get into those, and also, I find turn based RPGs very hard to put up with. I know I'm missing out on some classic games because of that attitude but, you know, I just lack the patience for that kind of combat.
I'm not sure they will. I think they'll go off on their own tangent.

If you want to play it it's not that hard to play for people who don't like the combat if you get it off the PS4 store (or an emulator for that matter). On the ps4 one, you can cheat and speed through the battles and make yourself invincible if you literally just want to watch the story. It's all done with L3 and R3. You can also turn random encounters off whenever you want. It will take you much less time to get through but you'll still have the feeling of exploration you got in the original and you'll understand the context - you'll still really enjoy it.

That Midgar bit is just basically a long tutorial section and story set up. If you are skipping through the battles you'll get through that bit in less than a couple of hours.
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
Legacy
Apr 4, 2020
16,934
899
118
This game is absolutely amazing... until it isn't.

One of its best aspects is that it keeps things "simple", whether it's the world, the characters, or their motivations. It's distinctly lacking any of the usual Square Enix, Nomura, incomprehensible, nonsense idiocy... until it isn't.

I'd say everything before you go to the Shinra HQ is pretty much gold. The characters are likeable, the world is beautiful and lively (and just as important; practical and easy to parse), the combat is fucking fenomenal, and it's all presented in gorgous visuals and with excellent music. The game does definitely stretch itself out at certain sections. Even never having really played the original I could feel this remake holding up giant 'detour' signs, where they wouldn't have been originally. And Sephiroth showing up too much was a little irksome, but since the game always kept its eye on the current goal it didn't bother me too much... until it did.

Shinra HQ is where things quickly started to fall apart for me. In a nutshell, the game just doesn't fucking end. From the very start it's gearing you up for the ending, you can feel it. But then it continues on for another 5 hours at least. Here's where the game stretching itself out really caught in my throat. You can make a game as long as you want and pad out the content, but when you're giving the player the idea that they're reaching the end, DO NOT have the game go on incessantly where it feels like you need to drag it kicking and sceaming across the finish line. There were still some good moments at Shinra, like the scene between Hojo and Aerith, and the VR combat arena. But overall this chapter gave me a migraine with how long it went on.

But worse of all, the ending was all about the ghosts and Sephiroth; the two least interesting parts of this game. I could sort of appreciate the mystery of the ghosts and their little prods into the storyline, but them as the main focus was boring and stank of Nomura mumbo jumbo. Then there's Sephiroth who's only a big deal in this game because he's a big deal in gaming pop culture. Nothing about his presence in this remake justified him being the final Boss, or the game lingering on him like that.

It's funny, because I was pretty in love with this game for the majority. I haven't even mentioned the joy of Wall Market, or how terrific it handles the event where you try to stop the plate from getting dropped. This game was breathtaking, and I never expected to say that about a Square Enix game. But then the Square/Nomura shit hit like a bomb in the final stretch, and I'm finding it hard to remember the good times through the horrid stench that is currently hanging over it.
 

dscross

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 26, 2020
1,264
8
43
Country
United Kingdom
Casual Shinji said:
It's funny, because I was pretty in love with this game for the majority. I haven't even mentioned the joy of Wall Market, or how terrific it handles the event where you try to stop the plate from getting dropped. This game was breathtaking, and I never expected to say that about a Square Enix game. But then the Square/Nomura shit hit like a bomb in the final stretch, and I'm finding it hard to remember the good times through the horrid stench that is currently hanging over it.
Such a shame. I did suspect that was the case but loads of people seem to be ok with it for some reason - I think I need to experience this so I can judge this for myself. There's been so much buzz about this game that I definitely want to play it and see what all the controversy and good moments are all about.

I've just been rushing through the original so I can experience it with eyes fresh off the original and see it for myself - I was going to wait for a price drop but I really want to understand what's going on with it, which I suppose is a testament to their marketing strategy.
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
Legacy
Apr 4, 2020
16,934
899
118
dscross said:
Casual Shinji said:
It's funny, because I was pretty in love with this game for the majority. I haven't even mentioned the joy of Wall Market, or how terrific it handles the event where you try to stop the plate from getting dropped. This game was breathtaking, and I never expected to say that about a Square Enix game. But then the Square/Nomura shit hit like a bomb in the final stretch, and I'm finding it hard to remember the good times through the horrid stench that is currently hanging over it.
Such a shame. I did suspect that was the case but loads of people seem to be ok with it for some reason - I think I need to experience this so I can judge this for myself. There's been so much buzz about this game that I definitely want to play it and see what all the controversy and good moments are all about.

I've just been rushing through the original so I can experience it with eyes fresh off the original and see it for myself - I was going to wait for a price drop but I really want to understand what's going on with it, which I suppose is a testament to their marketing strategy.
No matter my feelings on the ending, it's still the best game Square has made in.. probably a decade and a half.

It's amazing how fantastic Final Fantasy games can be when they're not trying to be so ridiculously fantastic. Which is what the ending of FF7R unfortunately pulls. Just have a nice clean focus on the characters and the world they live in; we don't need super saiyan sword fights against literal manifestations of destiny that take place in floaty dimensions.
 

Silvanus

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 26, 2020
5,674
1,371
118
Country
United Kingdom
Casual Shinji said:
No matter my feelings on the ending, it's still the best game Square has made in.. probably a decade and a half.
Better than FFXII, Bravely Default, or Octopath Traveler?