Final Fantasy XVI -Awakening- !!!!

happyninja42

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It establishes that they already are friends, sure, it doesn't develop the characters or show their friendship be formed and advance.
Really? I mean, I recall Gladius advancing his relationship with Noctis as the story progresses, due to a rising tension between them, so much so that they have a falling out and he leaves for a while. Prompto has some personal hangups about feeling inadequate, and you can talk to him and help bolster his confidence. Ignis....well frankly I think he does stay fairly static as I recall, he's just "Poised British Posh" from start to finish, though he does become more pensive after that significant event happens to him offscreen later in the game.

My biggest issue with FF15, wasn't the interaction of the guys, I thought that was frankly just fine. My issue was the disconnect in how Noctis would act when you have control of him, versus in the scripted scenes. It was pretty apparent from his tone and dialogue, that Noctis, when running around, doing quests for his subjects, and just meeting and interacting with them, that he's actually a pretty chill, laid back guy. He never comes off as annoyed when being asked yet again to help someone, he seems more than happy to do something to help improve their lives. He makes jokes with his friends, the people, is willing to pose for silly pictures, do goofy touristy stuff, and overall, just act like a well adjusted person.

...and then a cutscene kicks in, and he's acting all emo and edgy, and angry and lashing out at people.....and then it's back to me controlling him...and he's all chill and laidback dude.

THAT annoyed me to no end, because it felt like the game and cinematic story had 2 different protagonists. One I genuinely enjoyed playing as, the other an annoying JRPG/Anime edgelord that I wanted to slap.
 

Dreiko

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Really? I mean, I recall Gladius advancing his relationship with Noctis as the story progresses, due to a rising tension between them, so much so that they have a falling out and he leaves for a while. Prompto has some personal hangups about feeling inadequate, and you can talk to him and help bolster his confidence. Ignis....well frankly I think he does stay fairly static as I recall, he's just "Poised British Posh" from start to finish, though he does become more pensive after that significant event happens to him offscreen later in the game.

My biggest issue with FF15, wasn't the interaction of the guys, I thought that was frankly just fine. My issue was the disconnect in how Noctis would act when you have control of him, versus in the scripted scenes. It was pretty apparent from his tone and dialogue, that Noctis, when running around, doing quests for his subjects, and just meeting and interacting with them, that he's actually a pretty chill, laid back guy. He never comes off as annoyed when being asked yet again to help someone, he seems more than happy to do something to help improve their lives. He makes jokes with his friends, the people, is willing to pose for silly pictures, do goofy touristy stuff, and overall, just act like a well adjusted person.

...and then a cutscene kicks in, and he's acting all emo and edgy, and angry and lashing out at people.....and then it's back to me controlling him...and he's all chill and laidback dude.

THAT annoyed me to no end, because it felt like the game and cinematic story had 2 different protagonists. One I genuinely enjoyed playing as, the other an annoying JRPG/Anime edgelord that I wanted to slap.
So to clarify, I think each component, when inspected by itself, was from fine to great. The interactions were a lot of fun.

I think it's just a critical case of the whole being less than the sum of its parts. There's pieces missing in the puzzle that I see the holes for with great prominence, the rest of the puzzle is fine, I just can't help but focus on the glaring holes it has.
 

happyninja42

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So to clarify, I think each component, when inspected by itself, was from fine to great. The interactions were a lot of fun.

I think it's just a critical case of the whole being less than the sum of its parts. There's pieces missing in the puzzle that I see the holes for with great prominence, the rest of the puzzle is fine, I just can't help but focus on the glaring holes it has.
I get what you are saying, I just don't really see it I guess.

I'm curious, what would you have preferred to see with the boy band's interaction, to fill in the holes you didn't like?
 

Dreiko

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I get what you are saying, I just don't really see it I guess.

I'm curious, what would you have preferred to see with the boy band's interaction, to fill in the holes you didn't like?
Just a lot more content early on in the timeline, I loved the anime ovas they did, so I guess more of the events that transpired between the ovas and the game.
 

CaitSeith

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Also it seems to FINALLY be back to a completely medieval setting.
Sorry. When has FF had a completely medieval setting? Even the very first FF had robots and a fortress full of computers. If there is a FF with a completely medieval setting, this would be the first one.
 

Dalisclock

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Sorry. When has FF been completely a medieval setting? Even the very first FF had robots and a fortress full of computers. If there is a FF with a completely medieval setting, this would be the first one.
The first 4 entries were mostly middle ages fantasy with some techie elements thrown it, but the equivalent timeline, so to speak, has been shifting forward from 5 onward(5 had steam power and clockpunk elements), 6 was steampunky, 7 was dieselpunk, 8 was fairly modernesque, 9 was a bit of a throw back and 10 was fairly sci-fi, etc.

It was never pure fantasy but the sci-fi elements have been taking more prominence as the series went on.
 

happyninja42

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Just a lot more content early on in the timeline, I loved the anime ovas they did, so I guess more of the events that transpired between the ovas and the game.
I think I only saw the one film that showed the attack on the city, so I'm not familiar with any other ovas from the game. But I'm guessing you wanted more pre-game boy band content? The forming of their friendships and stuff?

If so, yeah I can see how that would be enjoyable, but personally, I kind of liked joining in media res with them already established. I was like "oh, ok, this is a group of dudes who are bros. got it." *insert my own highschool friendship circle ties, and get on with the game*

I thought they established how they were friends fairly well, and what they brought to the group. How you had the hyper, excitable one, the more level headed "dad" of the group who made sure they had gas, and knew where to go, the older brother Manly Man, and then the one that they were all tied to. It felt real to me, and perfectly well formed. I guess it could be fun watching that develop? But then you run the risk of bad writing potentially messing it up, and contradicting the comradery they had in the game, with conflicting stuff from before.

So for me, it was fine. I liked it how it was. I wish they'd done more with Lunafreya though. She was a really cool character. 1. her design and look were equal parts awesome/hot/gorgeous. She was really rocking that "cultured hotness" look with her design. But I also really dug her character's concept. She was kind of like Yuna from 10, in that she was a person chosen for a role to save the people, and that it was dangerous, but also highly important. Then...they didn't really do anything with her. They just made her a Distressed Damsel for most of the game, and I was hoping for her to actually join the team later in the game, as the "white mage" or something. She was such wasted potential in my book.
 
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Silvanus

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They're continuing with FFXV/ FFVIIRemake style action-oriented combat rather than tactical combat, which I think is a shame, and makes the series more generic.

Still invested in the series, so still excited. But they're on a downward trend since XII as far as I'm concerned. XIII was aesthetically-interesting bollocks, and XV was marginally better but was full of punchable characters and cringworthy dialogue.
 

happyninja42

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They're continuing with FFXV/ FFVIIRemake style action-oriented combat rather than tactical combat, which I think is a shame, and makes the series more generic.

Still invested in the series, so still excited. But they're on a downward trend since XII as far as I'm concerned.
I'm actually fine with the real time combat, with the option to pause it and set up action chains. Personally I prefer that, because it's often fights that aren't hard, and having it sort of on autopilot, when you are just grinding through trash to level up, makes it faster. Than me having to manually choose every action. If my squad can just stomp the stuff before I can even really hit it, and we move on to the next fight, all the better.

I do think it should have a pause/tactics option to let people play like that if they want, or at least to plan out based on the situation. But yeah, I'm all for the real time combat system personally.
 

meiam

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I'm actually fine with the real time combat, with the option to pause it and set up action chains. Personally I prefer that, because it's often fights that aren't hard, and having it sort of on autopilot, when you are just grinding through trash to level up, makes it faster. Than me having to manually choose every action. If my squad can just stomp the stuff before I can even really hit it, and we move on to the next fight, all the better.

I do think it should have a pause/tactics option to let people play like that if they want, or at least to plan out based on the situation. But yeah, I'm all for the real time combat system personally.
I think the solution to trash mode isn't to make the game real time but to make every fight harder so there's no trash mob. Or alternatively, to make it very hard to recover resource (mana/item) in dungeon so that even if the combat are trash mob you still need to carefully chose your action so as to have enough for the boss.

And FF15 was full of trash mob that took forever to clean out, with enemy being damage sponge but posing no challenge, so I don't think real time fixed that issue.

I also think it's kinda of a shame they've just given up turn based, there's already plenty of game with combat like devil may cry, do we really need one more when there's barely any turn based anymore?
 

CaitSeith

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The first 4 entries were mostly middle ages fantasy with some techie elements thrown it, but the equivalent timeline, so to speak, has been shifting forward from 5 onward(5 had steam power and clockpunk elements), 6 was steampunky, 7 was dieselpunk, 8 was fairly modernesque, 9 was a bit of a throw back and 10 was fairly sci-fi, etc.

It was never pure fantasy but the sci-fi elements have been taking more prominence as the series went on.
Still, even at the entries with the least sci-fi, it has whole areas that are the equivalent of D&D characters vs. Predator. Unlike Dragon Quest, no entry in the main series has been pure medieval fantasy.
 
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09philj

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I'm actually fine with the real time combat, with the option to pause it and set up action chains. Personally I prefer that, because it's often fights that aren't hard, and having it sort of on autopilot, when you are just grinding through trash to level up, makes it faster. Than me having to manually choose every action. If my squad can just stomp the stuff before I can even really hit it, and we move on to the next fight, all the better.
This is one of the good things about FFXII's combat; easy encounters are cleared more or less automatically but you can easily jump in to give extra commands to win more difficult ones. The old school ATB was really slow, which really stretched out the time it took to do anything.
 

happyninja42

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I think the solution to trash mode isn't to make the game real time but to make every fight harder so there's no trash mob. Or alternatively, to make it very hard to recover resource (mana/item) in dungeon so that even if the combat are trash mob you still need to carefully chose your action so as to have enough for the boss.

And FF15 was full of trash mob that took forever to clean out, with enemy being damage sponge but posing no challenge, so I don't think real time fixed that issue.

I also think it's kinda of a shame they've just given up turn based, there's already plenty of game with combat like devil may cry, do we really need one more when there's barely any turn based anymore?
Well all RPG's are filled with grind, FF is no different. But given the amount of time on load in/out screens, menus, etc, there's a lot of just wasted time on bringing up menus and the like. That stuff adds up when you are farming some item that you need 99 of in FF, or trying to get a rare drop item that only drops off this one mob. Or you're doing one of those oddball side quests that have you jumping through insane hoops while fighting mobs over and over. All that time adds up to a lot of my life spent just processing tables and menus and junk. If the game is going to force me to do that stuff, which let's be frank, that's a staple part of jrpgs, then I'd rather it take the least amount of time possible.
 

happyninja42

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This is one of the good things about FFXII's combat; easy encounters are cleared more or less automatically but you can easily jump in to give extra commands to win more difficult ones. The old school ATB was really slow, which really stretched out the time it took to do anything.
Yeah I really enjoyed FF12 actually. I never finished it, but I remembered being shocked like 20 hours in, having still been engaged in the story, as it MADE FUCKING SENSE! It didn't branch off into JRPG crazytown, had a rational framework, understandable characters with understandable goals, and I'm playing it. It was GREAT.

I mean, it's straight up a New Hope, but JRPG style, but that's ok. New Hope was good, it made sense.
 

meiam

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Yeah I really enjoyed FF12 actually. I never finished it, but I remembered being shocked like 20 hours in, having still been engaged in the story, as it MADE FUCKING SENSE! It didn't branch off into JRPG crazytown, had a rational framework, understandable characters with understandable goals, and I'm playing it. It was GREAT.

I mean, it's straight up a New Hope, but JRPG style, but that's ok. New Hope was good, it made sense.
FF12 story making sense? I think if FF12 story made sense you were still very early. Eventually it's about God-like being choosing a new Jesus person to create crystal by fighting demi angel from an angel rebelion thousands of years ago but then the main character (whose not the main character) as to choose between that or destroying crystals that are actually nuke that can be used to power giant floating aircraft carrier that's completely irrelevant to the story. It get stupid with a capital S is what I'm getting at.
 

happyninja42

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FF12 story making sense? I think if FF12 story made sense you were still very early. Eventually it's about God-like being choosing a new Jesus person to create crystal by fighting demi angel from an angel rebelion thousands of years ago but then the main character (whose not the main character) as to choose between that or destroying crystals that are actually nuke that can be used to power giant floating aircraft carrier that's completely irrelevant to the story. It get stupid with a capital S is what I'm getting at.
Yeah like I said I didn't finish it. But for act 1 at least, the plot is a plucky blonde kid from a desert town, dreaming of being a sky pirate, hooks up with a princess on the run from an evil empire, team up with a leather vest clad pirate with a pistol who flies a ship, and has a tall, furry copilot, and their old, wizened bum of a mentor character, all on the run from a dude in full body black armor. It was straight up New Hope. And I enjoyed it. I lost focus on the game at some point though. I vaguely recall going to some....mine I think it was? Where they harvested some magical material or whatever. I think that was as far as I got.
 

Dreiko

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I think I only saw the one film that showed the attack on the city, so I'm not familiar with any other ovas from the game. But I'm guessing you wanted more pre-game boy band content? The forming of their friendships and stuff?

If so, yeah I can see how that would be enjoyable, but personally, I kind of liked joining in media res with them already established. I was like "oh, ok, this is a group of dudes who are bros. got it." *insert my own highschool friendship circle ties, and get on with the game*

I thought they established how they were friends fairly well, and what they brought to the group. How you had the hyper, excitable one, the more level headed "dad" of the group who made sure they had gas, and knew where to go, the older brother Manly Man, and then the one that they were all tied to. It felt real to me, and perfectly well formed. I guess it could be fun watching that develop? But then you run the risk of bad writing potentially messing it up, and contradicting the comradery they had in the game, with conflicting stuff from before.

So for me, it was fine. I liked it how it was. I wish they'd done more with Lunafreya though. She was a really cool character. 1. her design and look were equal parts awesome/hot/gorgeous. She was really rocking that "cultured hotness" look with her design. But I also really dug her character's concept. She was kind of like Yuna from 10, in that she was a person chosen for a role to save the people, and that it was dangerous, but also highly important. Then...they didn't really do anything with her. They just made her a Distressed Damsel for most of the game, and I was hoping for her to actually join the team later in the game, as the "white mage" or something. She was such wasted potential in my book.
OK so I get you not minding this stuff if you didn't go into the game having watched the OVAs ahead of time like I did.

The ovas show Prompto being an overweight middleschooler with a crush on Luna that movitvates him to work out and lose weight and Noctis is actually surprisingly cool towards him despite how others treated him for his looks which is how they become friends and Gladius kinda hates Noctis but is being forced to guard him and Iris is being this tomboy who befriends Noctis and is kinda like a childhood friend.


Basically, there's a lot of heartful stuff there, so when you kinda forget all that potential and just do the in-media-res thing then I'm just left here with a bunch of unanswered questions.
 

Dalisclock

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OK so I get you not minding this stuff if you didn't go into the game having watched the OVAs ahead of time like I did.

The ovas show Prompto being an overweight middleschooler with a crush on Luna that movitvates him to work out and lose weight and Noctis is actually surprisingly cool towards him despite how others treated him for his looks which is how they become friends and Gladius kinda hates Noctis but is being forced to guard him and Iris is being this tomboy who befriends Noctis and is kinda like a childhood friend.


Basically, there's a lot of heartful stuff there, so when you kinda forget all that potential and just do the in-media-res thing then I'm just left here with a bunch of unanswered questions.
I think this is kind of the problem is that FFXV cut off a bunch of it's story and then.

1.) Makes you watch the movie if want want to get the lowdown on the whole Insomnia falls plot(which should be a major part of the game but really isnt).
2.) Makes you watch the anime if you want to learn about the main characters.
3.) Makes you buy the DLC(the ones that weren't canceled, anyway) if you want to see more pieces of character development that should have been in the main game.

It feels like something went dreadfully wrong when you're expected to Watch a movie, an anime and pay more for DLC just to get something approximating the full story that should be in the game by default.

I mean, goddamn Xenogears at least just had the decency to at least throw the rest of the story in at the end, even if it meant sacrificing the rest of the gameplay in the process(when it became apparent there was no way to finish it the way they had meant to). It's still awkward as hell but it's still a better solution then "Watch this movie, this anime, buy the DLC...which are canceled", which is saying something.
 
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happyninja42

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OK so I get you not minding this stuff if you didn't go into the game having watched the OVAs ahead of time like I did.

The ovas show Prompto being an overweight middleschooler with a crush on Luna that movitvates him to work out and lose weight and Noctis is actually surprisingly cool towards him despite how others treated him for his looks which is how they become friends and Gladius kinda hates Noctis but is being forced to guard him and Iris is being this tomboy who befriends Noctis and is kinda like a childhood friend.


Basically, there's a lot of heartful stuff there, so when you kinda forget all that potential and just do the in-media-res thing then I'm just left here with a bunch of unanswered questions.
That's cool and all but, where would that fit into the narrative about Prince Noctis, last of his line, destined to save the world and fight off an invading empire, that destroyed his home and sent him into exile?

I mean that's a highschool VN right there. Which I'm fine with, but it feels like bloat in a video game. It would either be relegated to an extended flashback sequence, which if you are lucky you get to walk around in while they just talk at you. Or it will be a cinematic. I mean, what would Noctis be fighting at that point that would be engaging for a video game? The whole point is that up to the start of the game, he hasn't really had much in the way of conflict (as best as I can recall at least). The whole game is about his "coming of age" story, where he stops being a child, and becomes a man, and learns to fight for his people. So there really isn't any threat that would warrant a team combat tactic that involves magical teleportation to stab people with a sword, and other forms of murder.

So while it's a nice bit of character development, it wouldn't fit well in the game as anything other than expositionary flashbacks. And JRPGs are already pretty bad about those.
 

Phoenixmgs

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The phoenix stuff interests me (obviously). I wonder if it'll be a ripoff of the X-Men Phoenix Saga, there's already some crystal mentioned in the trailer and if the phoenix is the guardian of said crystal then...