Firefox Pirates Lay Siege to Amazon

Feb 13, 2008
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Firefox Pirates Lay Siege to Amazon



According to TorrentFreak [http://torrentfreak.com/firefox-pirates-take-over-amazon-081203/], Amazon [http://www.amazon.com/] is getting hammered by pirates using an exploit in Firefox to get away with booty without paying for it.

The add on links away from the legal product and onto a pirated download for the same product. So, when you want to buy something, as long as it's available in digital media, you'll get the illegal copy instead.

To Amazon, this is the equivalent of a junkie sitting outside your shop doors and promising to nick anything you want without the shop owner even being aware of it.

Given the time of year as well, this will cause havoc to the online retail store; and is sure to result in countermeasures that can only start at DRM's.

The pirates themselves, though devoid of eye-patches, are using the blend of retailing and torrent tracking to 'redistribute the wealth', whilst getting a healthy link to themselves.

Whilst the add-on uses the infamous Greasemonkey script, it's not the first. Rotten Tomatoes [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/], IMDB [http://www.imdb.com/], Last.fm [http://www.last.fm/] and number of subscription-based browser games are also targeted.

Given the amount of money at stake in this game, one can almost imagine the Amazonian Armada sailing up behind the HMS Firefox as we speak.

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Lvl 64 Klutz

Crowsplosion!
Apr 8, 2008
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And there are still people out there who convince themselves that pirating doesn't hurt anyone >_>

Lately it seems the jackass to non-jackass related news has tripled. Despicable.
 

Aardvark

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Sep 9, 2008
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Why not just make an add-on that searches torrent sites without the need to go to Amazon?

What's the point of including Amazon in that at all?

Do pirates really want to see what the product would have looked like, had they decided to pay for it? Or is this for those sometimes-pirates, who have a set limit they'll pay before turning to piracy?
 

Kross

World Breaker
Sep 27, 2004
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It's not really an 'exploit' in Firefox. It sounds like it's just Greasemonkey adding an extra search link next to the buy link on a product that searches the Pirate bay for the name of whatever you're looking at on Amazon.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Kross said:
It's not really an 'exploit' in Firefox. It sounds like it's just Greasemonkey adding an extra search link next to the buy link on a product that searches the Pirate bay for the name of whatever you're looking at on Amazon.
Possibly, from what I've heard of Greasemonkey, it's almost considered an exploit in itself.
 

Kross

World Breaker
Sep 27, 2004
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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Kross said:
It's not really an 'exploit' in Firefox. It sounds like it's just Greasemonkey adding an extra search link next to the buy link on a product that searches the Pirate bay for the name of whatever you're looking at on Amazon.
Possibly, from what I've heard of Greasemonkey, it's almost considered an exploit in itself.
Yeah, it lets you rewrite html on a given web page, useful for messing with the layout of sites you go to a lot, or for more malicious things like stripping out the ad code. So, like any powerful tool, it can be used for good, or if you're clever, evil.
 

santaandy

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Sep 26, 2008
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Lvl 64 Klutz said:
And there are still people out there who convince themselves that pirating doesn't hurt anyone >_>
This is not "pirating," this is actual theft. Real pirates steal like this. Software "pirates" are not stealing, just committing copyright infringement (debate whether that hurts elsewhere). Both are wrong, but please get your definitions straight.
 

Scorched_Cascade

Innocence proves nothing
Sep 26, 2008
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I can see a lot of people getting van'd over this depending on the countries they are based in; so to clarify are they just changing the link to add to basket type thing amazon uses to an immediate torrent or just a search page for a torrent?

Edit- and isn't this just going to work for the user that is actualy running the scripts? Sounds a lot less controversial that when I first read the post and assumed they had affected the actual amazon website accessed by everybody.
 

SaintWaldo

Interzone Vagabond
Jun 10, 2008
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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Kross said:
It's not really an 'exploit' in Firefox, it sounds like it's just Greasemonkey rewriting buy links to torrent searches for a given piece of software.
Possibly, from what I've heard of Greasemonkey, it's almost considered an exploit in itself.
Wrong, sir. Greasemonkey simply lets you script a loaded DOM without having to alter the original page's code to include it. You can do similar stuff with FireBug, but Greasemonkey lets you bind your local scripts to bookmarks and even entire domains. From a tech standpoint, this is a neutral thing. Many benevolent mash-ups would not be possible without this sort of technology.

I'd like to point out that this script is not "exploiting" Amazon other than to use the listings to drive a subsequent look-up. It's not going to be noticeable as spiked traffic to Amazon, any ads they are running still get viewed, and the type of person running this add-on most likely wouldn't be completing a purchase from them any time soon, anyhow. The title is inaccurate and hyperbolic. No one has pirated Firefox (something you cannot do to free stuff, by definition), and they aren't laying any kind of "siege" that Amazon would notice. A more accurate title would perhaps be, "Pirates Use Firefox Add-On to Mash-up Amazon, Pirate Bay". As it stands, the current title is misleading at best, purposefully bombastic at worst.
 

Nimbus

Token Irish Guy
Oct 22, 2008
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santaandy said:
Lvl 64 Klutz said:
And there are still people out there who convince themselves that pirating doesn't hurt anyone >_>
This is not "pirating," this is actual theft. Real pirates steal like this. Software "pirates" are not stealing, just committing copyright infringement (debate whether that hurts elsewhere). Both are wrong, but please get your definitions straight.
This is basically a less conveinient way of searching for torrents. How the hell is that stealing (In comparison to going to a regular tracker? Let's not get into the piracy issue in this thread.)
 

eldpollard

New member
Sep 9, 2008
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It's not theft I'm afraid.
Theft Act 1968
"1. Basic definition of theft
(1) A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to
another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and ?theft? and ?steal?
shall be construed accordingly."
Permanently deprive the other of it. No-one is being permanently deprived of property here I'm afraid.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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SaintWaldo said:
As it stands, the current title is misleading at best, purposefully bombastic at worst.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but I see nothing misleading in the title. Pirates who use Firefox are attacking Amazon; the lede is provided by TorrentFreak, as is stated.
 

anti_strunt

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Aug 26, 2008
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Lvl 64 Klutz said:
And there are still people out there who convince themselves that pirating doesn't hurt anyone >_>
Well, economically speaking, since electronic information can be infinitely duplicated without an marginal cost, the only economically efficient solution is for it to be universally available: piracy thus (rather inadvertedly) leads to the optimal distribution of electronic "goods".

Still sucks if you're they whose stuff gets nicked, but hey! You can't argue with economics...
 

Milkman Dan

New member
Sep 11, 2008
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I don't see the point of calling piracy "theft." It's copyright violation. Calling it theft doesn't make it more or less of a crime, and it's arguably inaccurate. Besides, taking something for free when you "should" be paying for it is a terrible definition of theft. By that definition, if I borrow something from a friend instead of buying it at a local store, regardless of what it was, I'd be a thief.
 

Samurai Goomba

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Oct 7, 2008
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Like others have said, it's copyright infringement and illegal copying. Nobody is actually losing anything, it's just being copied without permission. Kind of like photocopying an entire Library book so that you don't have to buy it, or borrowing something from a buddy, making a copy of it, and then giving back the original to him.
 

santaandy

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Sep 26, 2008
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Oh, I thought it stopped people from purchasing legal digital files from amazon. Redirecting someone's payment stream (either away from them or to you) is definitely crossing the line.
 

Earthbound

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Aug 13, 2008
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fish food carl said:
Lvl 64 Klutz said:
And there are still people out there who convince themselves that pirating doesn't hurt anyone >_>
I think that "hurt" is a bad way to put it. While I agree that pirating isn't nearly as bad as some people make it out to be, you can't just say "Why should I pay for something? Outrageous!"

It's a stupid outlook, when you look at pro-pirating arguments. Just tell them, "Are you taking something for free, when you should be paying for it?"

"Well, yeah"

"Then it's theft. It's not that hard to comprehend."
One could simply say that they shouldn't be paying for it, since information should be free. I'm against that viewpoint, but then you would get into a philosophical argument with the person, so the best you can hope for is a stalemate.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Whilst legal reasons are tying my hands on this; the add on, that uses Grease Monkey which 'some' might call an exploit, works alongside Amazon and searches the torrents for the same name article. What you then download is 'allegedly' the digital media associated with that copyright; therefore breaking copyright laws while still accessing Amazon's (and the rests) widgets.

So, not only is it allowing, some might say promoting, copyright infringement; it's doing so under the guise of legality (which could have implications on Amazon) and giving hits to the torrent site available.

Suffice to say the site is down at the moment; and even if you do agree with what's being done, the counterstrike by Amazon is likely to have knock on effects to your average Joe consumer.

From what I can ascertain, no money is trading hands at the moment, but given that the script COULD easily perform illegal activities, I think that it's going to escalate.
 

Bagaloo

New member
Sep 17, 2008
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anti_strunt said:
Lvl 64 Klutz said:
And there are still people out there who convince themselves that pirating doesn't hurt anyone >_>
Well, economically speaking, since electronic information can be infinitely duplicated without an marginal cost, the only economically efficient solution is for it to be universally available: piracy thus (rather inadvertedly) leads to the optimal distribution of electronic "goods".

Still sucks if you're they whose stuff gets nicked, but hey! You can't argue with economics...
Your argument sort of holds together, until you factor in that if software is made universally available (without cost to the user) then companies will stop making any software because they can't get any money out of it.