All those franchises were ruined before the Woke culture got to them, chief(Well, not so sure about Dr Who, but anyways.). If anything, "the SJWs" either failed to ressurect them, or just prolongued their agony.KingsGambit said:
First Ariel, now 007 is casted with a Black Female Actress. (Craig is still James Bond)
- Thread starter Samtemdo8_v1legacy
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Okay yeah I was wondering if they had actually cast her as James Bond and if she'll be going 'Bond, James Bond." in the films. But no, she's just a new character who will become the new 007. That's fine. James will either die or retire and she'll just step up, earn her two kills, and become a 00.
Still strange Idris Elba was considered 'too street' to be Bond, but a black woman can be a 00 no problem. Makes me wonder if Elba should have tried to be 006 or 008.
Still strange Idris Elba was considered 'too street' to be Bond, but a black woman can be a 00 no problem. Makes me wonder if Elba should have tried to be 006 or 008.
Female 007 as incompetent is going to trigger a lot of people.Dreiko said:
This is where outrage culture has got us - "SJWs" and "SQWs" are two sides of the same coin.
Well, there is - it's going to be Craig's last outing in the role.MrCalavera said:
I'm sorry, what?MrCalavera said:
This is incredulity at both claims, that any of those franchises got "woke" (which is a catch-all buzzword at this point), or that they were "ruined."
Star Trek's in a better position now than it has been since the 90s. Star Wars has had ups and downs, but it's never really faded away. Ghostbusters has always been a niche franchise, so even if the 2016 film was a disappointment, what exactly was it ruining at this point bar an IP that hadn't been big in decades. Terminator? Terminator had its death knell with Rise of the Machines, and as much as I liked Salvation/Genisys, Terminator's never reached the heights that T2 set. Dr. Who? Much as I dislike the whole female Doctor thing, I will grant that DW was in decline long before he switched plumbing.
I will say that of all those franchises, DW is the only one I'd call "woke," but even if the Thirteenth Doctor hadn't had the gender swap thing for the sake of "representation" or identity politics, that in of itself wouldn't have sorted out the problems that Moffat's era left behind.
Anyone think it's weird that you need two kills to be a 00? What if you're sent on assignments that require taking the target alive?Silentpony said:
Also, being a 00 agent isn't the same thing as being James Bond per se. There's not exactly a shortage of 00 agents outside 007, and if we factor in the wider franchise, this isn't the first time there's been a female 00 either. But I will admit I can't see Idris Elba as James Bond, but "street" isn't the word I'd use for him. It's more..."heavy" is the word that comes to mind. Besides, Idris Elba has already played a secret service agent in Bastille Day, and whatever you thought of that film, his character was about as far from Bond as it's possible to get.
Except technically none of the franchises listed ever died. The closest one of those listed to being "dead" was Ghostbusters (hah hah, series about the undead is 'dead,' laugh it up), and even then it still kept chugging along in the comics and whatnot.Samtemdo8 said:
"Status quo warriors."Samtemdo8 said:
There's the term "anti-SJW" but I think "SQW" is a better one. Not only is it 'cleaner,' but it's a better mirror to the extremes of "SJWs."
I'll clarify that 90% of the time, I don't think either term is really warranted, but sometimes, the level of crazy from either sides of the spectrum justify it.
Well be fair; Brosnan and Bean had a very remarkable chemistry for characters who shared only fifteen minutes of screen time at the start.Hawki said:
What puzzles me most is how exactly they're going to swing this because say what else you can about Spectre - and much can be, most of it bad - it very clearly put a full stop next to Craig's Bond. Now they could go the OHMSS route and have the first of the two movies he's coming back for has his wife killed by someone. So he's brought back as a training officer for the new 007.
Am I the only one who thinks its weird that headlines are always about how black people are getting cast in usually roles normally played by white people? I mean, its all I see. I can't recall a single "X is now being played by an Asian actor" article. As an Asian I'm glad that there seems to be a big push towards Asian representation lately, but I find it curious and a little annoying that these controversies are ALWAYS about black peeps. I don't what the worse implication is, that studios think that diversity = chucking a black person into the cast, or that the only reason such castings are controversial and make the news is that so many people have "problems" with black people.
PS if someone does find an article or an example of a controversial casting where a traditionally white role is played by any other race, do post it I want to see.
PS if someone does find an article or an example of a controversial casting where a traditionally white role is played by any other race, do post it I want to see.
Honestly this isn't all that surprising. First they made M a woman, then they made Felix black, then they made Moneypenny black, now 007 is black and a woman.
It's like Broccoli is tripping over herself to make Bond the top of the virtue-signalling movie club.
But whatever. As always, it'll live or die on the story. And ever since Ghost Protocol came out, Bond has been trailing the spy movie pack by quite a margin.
Oh. Right. Because that would take effort. I see it now.
Then Craig comes along and reboots the continuity, as it's now post 11/9 and Bond is a fresh rookie. The fact he's over the hill barely two films later is... pretty stupid though.
Oh and you thinking that a black 007 is more artistic than the series has been for a long time only serves to show that it isn't. As I said this is now the 4th time they've done this, and if it's the first time you've noticed, and you equate gender/race flippage as 'artistic,' then they're clearly not spreading their diversity message well enough. That is, of course, unless gender and race flips don't matter unless it's the main protagonist, which opens a whole other can of worms in representation in film.
As for Idris being too 'heavy', I'd agree with that, but Craig is cast very much as a 'heavy' Bond, always punching his way to victory and such, so who knows. I guess anything's on the table for playing Bond now. And you saw how different Craig was in Logan Lucky, right? No reason Elba couldn't pull off a character vastly different to the one you mentioned and be a good Bond. I think the main reason he's out of the running now is age or something.
It's like Broccoli is tripping over herself to make Bond the top of the virtue-signalling movie club.
But whatever. As always, it'll live or die on the story. And ever since Ghost Protocol came out, Bond has been trailing the spy movie pack by quite a margin.
You have your thread(s). Kindly quit stomping on others' sandcastles and allow them to have theirs.Saelune said:
They should just let Martin Campbell direct all Bond films from now on. He did Brosnan's best in Goldeneye, and Craig's only good film in Casino Royale. Successfully revived the series twice.Samtemdo8 said:
Yeah pretty much. I think it's partially because deep down they're just terrified of Bond not being relevant anymore, nevermind that at it's core Bond movies have a formula that over the course of half a century have secured the films' endurance into the longest film series on the planet...
That's always how I've seen it too. To just gender-flip existing male characters isn't just a middle finger to the existing IP, it's a pretty huge disservice to women as well. It's tantamount to admitting that you can't make a successful new movie with a new female protagonist, which we all know is utter rubbish. Women, minorities, trans people etc etc- they are all worthy of having their own home-grown heroes. Why not give them that? instead of hijacking an existing successful work and butchering it to fit a new political diatribe, why not create a fresh new character that its target audience can actually be proud of?Hawki said:
Oh. Right. Because that would take effort. I see it now.
It has always been c, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Connery-Brosnan films are full to the brim with self-references that make it clear they are all experienced by the same man, who remembers all of them. See Lazenby reminiscing over the Garrotte watch, Moore visiting Tracy's grave, Brosnan asking if the jetpack 'still works' etc...Hawki said:
Then Craig comes along and reboots the continuity, as it's now post 11/9 and Bond is a fresh rookie. The fact he's over the hill barely two films later is... pretty stupid though.
Show the new black 007 as incompetent? Not a chance! They'd sooner have her heroically sacrifice herself to save Bond and be immortalised in an MI6 memorial or something...Dreiko said:
Well it wouldn't be entirely new. Dr. No had dancing dudes- I think a few Moore ones did too. As for a male singer, only Lazenby and Brosnan didn't have male-sung theme songs. All the others did.Eacaraxe said:
Sure- except it's been pioneering visual effects and practical stuntwork for over 50 years, running the gamut of everything from tense gritty Cold War thrillers to light-hearted world domination plots, creating an absolute juggernaut franchise watched around the world in one of the only cases of a property outside hollywood that regularly earns enough to sustain a hollywood budget. It's adapted and stayed popular through untold-of social upheavals and political change around the world, wars come and gone, leaders risen and fallen, while all its imitators have fallen by the wayside. Until recently the undisputed king of an entire film genre. Not bad for what you call a simple power fantasy, eh?Casual Shinji said:
Oh and you thinking that a black 007 is more artistic than the series has been for a long time only serves to show that it isn't. As I said this is now the 4th time they've done this, and if it's the first time you've noticed, and you equate gender/race flippage as 'artistic,' then they're clearly not spreading their diversity message well enough. That is, of course, unless gender and race flips don't matter unless it's the main protagonist, which opens a whole other can of worms in representation in film.
I've always found that truly bizarre too. You could wait for years for such an opportunity to get such a specific promotion. And what about the intern who accidentally sent an elevator with two infiltrators he didn't know about plunging to their deaths. Is he a Double-o now too? Sadly though it's right there in the original books, and nobody's got the guts to question it by this stage, so into the movies it goes. It was better back when we didn't know what earned the moniker if you ask me.Hawki said:
As for Idris being too 'heavy', I'd agree with that, but Craig is cast very much as a 'heavy' Bond, always punching his way to victory and such, so who knows. I guess anything's on the table for playing Bond now. And you saw how different Craig was in Logan Lucky, right? No reason Elba couldn't pull off a character vastly different to the one you mentioned and be a good Bond. I think the main reason he's out of the running now is age or something.
I won't disagree there. Terminator Genysis was so awful I couldn't believe it made it past test screening. I think for Bond in particular I'm disappointed because I am a fan. I don't care about the others, they can ruin them all day long. Identity politics is pure evil masquerading as virtue and it's insidiously creeping thru modern media. It doesn't belong in escapist entertainment, but they can't seem to help themselves. Sport, TV, film, games, they're trying their damnedest to politicise and ruin all of it with their bigoted world views. I wouldn't mind if they made their own products so I could ignore them, but they don't, they have to repurpose something created by someone better than them.MrCalavera said:
Dr. Who was circling the drain as early as series 7, mostly because Moffat was creatively tapped out but wouldn't step down. Instead, and in pursuance of the BBC's 2016 diversity guidelines, he started with the woke shit instead and the whole series went straight down the toilet in season 10. Jodie Whittaker's casting as Thirteen was symptomatic of bigger problems, not the problem in and of itself.MrCalavera said:
Which is really the problem from my perspective. The "SJW" psychology is bullish, infantile, and utterly devoid of genuine introspection or critical thought. That doesn't lend itself well to complex, insightful, or intellectually-provocative work; quite the opposite, in fact. I've compared woke shit to medieval morality play before, and I'll continue doing so until I see work of sufficient (or really, any) artistic merit.
And, it's that mindset and its ensuing inability to produce meritorious work that is its allure. One can label any and all criticism, however founded, as bigotry and prejudice by default rather than addressing core qualitative problems with the work. Thereby, shaming audiences into consumption for short-term gain, and excusing long-term failure as bigotry, and perpetuating races to the bottom as subsequent short-term strategies are pursued. It's easier on producers' egos to get woke instead of figuring out why they're going broke, than it is to acknowledge missteps along the way and fix them.
But regarding your post about Martin Campbell.Squilookle said:
Didn't he made Green Lantern 2011?
I've no idea. I had zero interest in that movie.Samtemdo8 said:
I did watch Vertical Limit though, which was an absolute stinker that Campbell directed, so I guess nobody's perfect. He did also do the Antonio Banderas Zorro movies though, so I'll give him a pass.
If I remember correctly 00s are meant to be assassins. So if you want the target taken alive, don't send a 00, send someone else. And the two kills is a reference to the two 0s in their titles. Its a little silly, but 00s sounds cool to say so that's why.Hawki said:
And the reason I said Idris Elba was 'street' was because the writers of the series said so when asked about it:
https://variety.com/2015/film/news/idris-elba-james-bond-too-street-author-anthony-horowitz-1201582692/
Now I still think Elba would make a fantastic 00. Hell make him a villain. Make him 006 and go renegade