First-cousin Marriage?

[Realitycrash]

What do you think of it? Is it wrong? Is it okey? Why is it wrong/okey?
Reason I am asking is that here where I live (Sweden), it's legal, but I claimed that people still think it is a bit..Weird. I am fairly certain that people still look down upon the act.
I got in an argument with a friend concerning if this is true or not.
Well, what do you think? Is it looked down upon where YOU live?

 

[ThatPurpleGuy]

Its legal in Sweden? I knew you guys were a progressive type nation, but I didn't think this was "legal" anywhere. I mean I know its always gone on in certain parts of countries throughout the world but not legally.

While yes it is very frowned upon in my country (Australia) and most other countries, its not really because of just a moral issue. Its a huge health issue, thats why I am surprised a smart country like Sweden has legalised it. First cousin would be a child of a brother or sister, way too close genetics wise. I don't know all the facts on this but I think most babies born out of incest have mental and physical disabilities or a much higher chance of

 

[Realitycrash]

Its legal in Sweden? I knew you guys were a progressive type nation, but I didn't think this was "legal" anywhere. I mean I know its always gone on in certain parts of countries throughout the world but not legally.

While yes it is very frowned upon in my country (Australia) and most other countries, its not really because of just a moral issue. Its a huge health issue, thats why I am surprised a smart country like Sweden has legalised it. First cousin would be a child of a brother or sister, way too close genetics wise. I don't know all the facts on this but I think most babies born out of incest have mental and physical disabilities or a much higher chance of

Are you sure that it is due to health-risk, though?
As far as I know, it takes several generations of inbreeding before any damaging traits to health can be shown.

 

[ThatPurpleGuy]

Just google "Inbreeding" or "incest" and I am sure there will be plenty about health risks. Of course I am not an expert but this has always been my understanding and that of everyone I know.

I think you have it the wrong way around. It would probably take several generations of inbreeding to reverse the mess created in the first place. Just get with someone other than your family, its not that hard.

 

[Hazy992]

I'm pretty sure it's legal here in the UK as well (could be wrong though). Hardly anyone does it though, as it's certainly frowned upon and seen as weird by any sane person.

[sub]My 1500th post was about incest! Yay I guess \(^_ ^ )/[/sub]

 

[Craorach]

Just google "Inbreeding" or "incest" and I am sure there will be plenty about health risks. Of course I am not an expert but this has always been my understanding and that of everyone I know.

I think you have it the wrong way around. It would probably take several generations of inbreeding to reverse the mess created in the first place. Just get with someone other than your family, its not that hard.

Just for the record.. really don't google that.

I suppose safe search might help, but it'd probably be better to add something like "risks of" at the very least.

Or go direct to Wikipedia.

I'm pretty sure it's considered "weird" at least in pretty much every western country. Of course, there was a time when it certainly wasn't, just look at the various European royal families.

 

[Fappy]

Yeah, like it was mentioned above I am pretty sure inbreeding is no-no for genetics, even in first cousins. I'm not a geneticist though so what do I know?

I don't really agree with any kind of incest though, even if it is with people you have no blood relation to (step-brothers/sisters, etc.). I'm not saying all that should be illegal, I just think its a poor decision in most cases. People who enter in controversial relationships like this rarely consider what it does to the rest of the family.

 

[Loop Stricken]

First cousin would be a child of a brother or sister, way too close genetics wise.

That's a neice/nephew. First cousin would be the child of your parent's sibling. Second cousin is the child of your first cousin, as far as I know. I'm not au fait with the 'once/twice removed' suffix though...

And yes the genetics are close but that only really comes into play after successive generations of inbreeding. If your family has a genetic history of anything then obviously the risk that those genes are going to be expressed in the offspring are raised, but if your genetics are otherwise healthy then getting it on with your cousin is about as likely to produce your dreaded mutant retard baby as it is with any random stranger.

I don't know if it's expressly forbidden in the UK (but with the amount of arranged marriages the Indian community have, I doubt it), but I'm personally not opposed to it. It might be a bit weird but as with pretty much everything in life, I say as long as everyone involved consents, then let them have at it.

 

[ThatPurpleGuy]

Just google "Inbreeding" or "incest" and I am sure there will be plenty about health risks. Of course I am not an expert but this has always been my understanding and that of everyone I know.

I think you have it the wrong way around. It would probably take several generations of inbreeding to reverse the mess created in the first place. Just get with someone other than your family, its not that hard.

Just for the record.. really don't google that.

I suppose safe search might help, but it'd probably be better to add something like "risks of" at the very least.

Or go direct to Wikipedia.

haha your probably right now I think about what could come up.

 

[Bertylicious]

Everything that does not result in the direct harm or repression of another person should be legal.

 

[Jonluw]

First cousin breeding isn't really a problem unless it happens several times over a couple of generations.

I say let consenting adults do whatever they like.

 

[Realitycrash]

Just google "Inbreeding" or "incest" and I am sure there will be plenty about health risks. Of course I am not an expert but this has always been my understanding and that of everyone I know.

I think you have it the wrong way around. It would probably take several generations of inbreeding to reverse the mess created in the first place. Just get with someone other than your family, its not that hard.

"A 1998 review found 1-4% increased morbidity for offsprings of first cousin marriages compared to offsprings of unrelated parents. A 1994 review found 4.4% increased mortality for offspring of first cousins. After controlling for several sociodemographic factors, infant mortality for offspring of first cousins had odds ratios of 1.36, 1.28, and 1.32 for the neonatal, postneonatal, and infant period. There has been little research on how inbreeding affects common adult disorder although some preliminary evidence support effects on many such disorders including cardiovascular diseases and common cancers. Many previously not identified genetic disorders have first been recognized in highly endogamous communities and the mutation causing the disease may be unique to such communities.[20] A review of 48 studies of children born to cousins found that most of the children were healthy, with birth defects affecting 4% of births for consanguineous couples compared to 2% for the general population"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding#Humans

4% genetic defects (if we take the highest-rating studie) compared to 2% in "ordinary couples". Twice as likely, yet not a "huge" chance.
So yes, it is a health-risk, but apparently, not a big enough one to be concrned with (atleast where I live).
And honestly, it's more likely that the children will be "genetically defect" if you marry someone that has a genetic disease, than if you marry your first cousin, and we don't ban that, now do we?

Still, I'm more interested in the public opinion than arguing if it should be legal or not.

 

[Jonluw]

Just google "Inbreeding" or "incest" and I am sure there will be plenty about health risks. Of course I am not an expert but this has always been my understanding and that of everyone I know.

"A 1998 review found 1-4% increased morbidity for offsprings of first cousin marriages compared to offsprings of unrelated parents. A 1994 review found 4.4% increased mortality for offspring of first cousins. After controlling for several sociodemographic factors, infant mortality for offspring of first cousins had odds ratios of 1.36, 1.28, and 1.32 for the neonatal, postneonatal, and infant period."
- Wikipedia

1-4% isn't all that much if you ask me. Certainly not enough to warrant a law against it.

 

[Jonluw]

snip

Ninja bastard.

 

[Realitycrash]

snip

Ninja bastard.

Stealthy stealthy! ^^

 

[ThatPurpleGuy]

Just google "Inbreeding" or "incest" and I am sure there will be plenty about health risks. Of course I am not an expert but this has always been my understanding and that of everyone I know.

"A 1998 review found 1-4% increased morbidity for offsprings of first cousin marriages compared to offsprings of unrelated parents. A 1994 review found 4.4% increased mortality for offspring of first cousins. After controlling for several sociodemographic factors, infant mortality for offspring of first cousins had odds ratios of 1.36, 1.28, and 1.32 for the neonatal, postneonatal, and infant period."
- Wikipedia

1-4% isn't all that much if you ask me. Certainly not enough to warrant a law against it.

Ah well I stand corrected. I mean its not something that I really ever thought about and the 'general consensus' is that its not a good thing. The numbers there though show its not as risky as its made out. It still doesn't make me want to go out and nail a family member, even though one of my cousins is gorgeous but if people want too, it doesn't matter to me, its not like I have some strong view against it, I was just replying to what the OP wrote. It is something overall that is frowned upon.

 

[Loop Stricken]

It is something overall that is frowned upon.

Well it's obviously not a positive gain, it's just not as big a deal as it's made out to be. A 100% increase in birth defect chance sounds fucking horrendous, but when you find out that just means it's gone from 2% to 4%... not so bad.

 

[Limecake]

genetically speaking, it's a breeding thing. Like they have already pointed out birth defects are more common among first-cousins and after several generations of inbreeding the problems only escalate.

From a social stand-point it's just icky.

The only place I've heard of it being legal is Shelbyville (but their cousins are so attractive!) http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/Shelbyville

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

I don't know all the facts on this but I think most babies born out of incest have mental and physical disabilities or a much higher chance of

Just google "Inbreeding" or "incest" and I am sure there will be plenty about health risks. Of course I am not an expert but this has always been my understanding and that of everyone I know.

I think you have it the wrong way around. It would probably take several generations of inbreeding to reverse the mess created in the first place. Just get with someone other than your family, its not that hard.

Oh joy my favourite pet peeve of misunderstood biology. The thing with inbreeding is it doesnt magically make your genes all wrong for no apparent reason. Everything functions normally. Its actually the exact same biologically as if two unrelated people had a baby. The only difference is the gene spread or variation. Because hereditary diseases are hereditary its likely that if one person in the family is a carrier they all are. And if two carriers do it then the kids will have the genetic illness. Carriers are pretty rare but the chances of two carriers mating is increased if intra family breeding occurs. So it basically doubles your chance of a genetic fault or disease.

Doubles from about 2% to 4% but that includes any genetic defect no matter how minor. If your family does NOT have a history of genetic disease its safe to say you are not a carrier. Thus inbreeding wont do any damage to your kids whatsoever unless done for several generations in a row.

I hate this misconception. Doing it with your cousin doesnt result in a tentacle. No it doesnt magically cause cystic fibrosis to occur. No it doesnt make the magic incest fiary create the appropriate gene sequence in your zygote to deform you. It doesnt do anything unless youre already a carrier for that genetic illness and have the gene sequence already in your sperm/eggs or whatever. In future id advise that if you dont know the biology PLEASE dont just guess based off nothing but hearsay. Its wrong and makes the public against this kind of thing because of the misconception.

Its not really anyones fault here for thinking this though, so no hate to you mr quoted people, just on this idea that keeps floating around the public mind.

 

[Realitycrash]

I don't know all the facts on this but I think most babies born out of incest have mental and physical disabilities or a much higher chance of

Just google "Inbreeding" or "incest" and I am sure there will be plenty about health risks. Of course I am not an expert but this has always been my understanding and that of everyone I know.

I think you have it the wrong way around. It would probably take several generations of inbreeding to reverse the mess created in the first place. Just get with someone other than your family, its not that hard.

I hate this misconception. This thread will make me too angry to continue so im gonna go cool off. No doing it with your cousin doesnt result in a tentacle. No it doesnt magically cause cystic fibrosis to occur. No it doesnt make the magic incest fiary create the appropriate gene sequence in your zygote to deform you. It doesnt do anything unless youre already a carrier for that genetic illness and have the gene sequence already in your sperm/eggs or whatever. In future id advise that if you dont know the biology PLEASE dont just guess based off nothing but hearsay. Its wrong and makes the public hate this kind of thing because of the misconception.

There, there, it was only one guy, and he already admitted his mistake. No need to go on a rage ^^