First-cousin Marriage?

[BiscuitTrouser]

There, there, it was only one guy, and he already admitted his mistake. No need to go on a rage ^^

Im not angry at him Its not really his fault. Its just the idea that someone somewhere once went "i dont understand biology so i can just guess and spread the false information ALL AROUND THE WORLD " And they succeeded. It baffles me how this is still "common" knowlegde. It really irks my such mass ignorance (no offence to those who have been told this in good faith) can spread so... efficiently.

 

[ThatPurpleGuy]

I don't know all the facts on this but I think most babies born out of incest have mental and physical disabilities or a much higher chance of

Just google "Inbreeding" or "incest" and I am sure there will be plenty about health risks. Of course I am not an expert but this has always been my understanding and that of everyone I know.

I think you have it the wrong way around. It would probably take several generations of inbreeding to reverse the mess created in the first place. Just get with someone other than your family, its not that hard.

Oh joy my favourite pet peeve of misunderstood biology. The thing with inbreeding is it doesnt magically make your genes all wrong for no apparent reason. Everything functions normally. Its actually the exact same biologically as if two unrelated people had a baby. The only difference is the gene spread or variation. Because hereditary diseases are hereditary its likely that if one person in the family is a carrier they all are. And if two carriers do it then the kids will have the genetic illness. Carriers are pretty rare but the chances of two carriers mating is increased if intra family breeding occurs. So it basically doubles your chance of a genetic fault or disease.

Doubles from about 2% to 4% but that includes any genetic defect no matter how minor. If your family does NOT have a history of genetic disease its safe to say you are not a carrier. Thus inbreeding wont do any damage to your kids whatsoever unless done for several generations in a row.

I hate this misconception. This thread will make me too angry to continue so im gonna go cool off. No doing it with your cousin doesnt result in a tentacle. No it doesnt magically cause cystic fibrosis to occur. No it doesnt make the magic incest fiary create the appropriate gene sequence in your zygote to deform you. It doesnt do anything unless youre already a carrier for that genetic illness and have the gene sequence already in your sperm/eggs or whatever. In future id advise that if you dont know the biology PLEASE dont just guess based off nothing but hearsay. Its wrong and makes the public hate this kind of thing because of the misconception.

The sad thing is youre right. It is the "Understanding" of everyone you know. Except that understanding is a fabrication by someone originally who was scared of incest pure and simple.

Man its a forum. Don't expect everyone to be an expert, I said I stand corrected above. Its not like the world reads this forum and runs off quoting everything they read. People really shouldn't take too much what they read on forums in general, like you have.

Your whole essay makes it seem like I hit a nerve, when it wasn't my intention.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Man its a forum. Don't expect everyone to be an expert, I said I stand corrected above. Its not like the world reads this forum and runs off quoting everything they read. People really shouldn't take too much what they read on forums in general, like you have.

Your whole essay makes it seem like I hit a nerve, when it wasn't my intention.

Sorry, ive edited my post already to add in a little extra. You did hit a nerve, this kind of pseudo public science really rubs me the wrong way. It isnt your fault though, or anyone elses. Its just common knowlegde that everyones told. Sorry i went off on one. Ive seen this discussion a thousand times and every single time about half the comments consist of "All of them are deformed!". It will never cease to irk me. I just wanted to clear it up and came over a little... zealous. No hate intended toward you.

 

[MetalDooley]

Its legal in Sweden? I knew you guys were a progressive type nation, but I didn't think this was "legal" anywhere. I mean I know its always gone on in certain parts of countries throughout the world but not legally.

It's legal in Ireland too.I actually know someone who married their first cousin.It's just kinda frowned upon by most folks

 

[ThatPurpleGuy]

Man its a forum. Don't expect everyone to be an expert, I said I stand corrected above. Its not like the world reads this forum and runs off quoting everything they read. People really shouldn't take too much what they read on forums in general, like you have.

Your whole essay makes it seem like I hit a nerve, when it wasn't my intention.

Sorry, ive edited my post already to add in a little extra. You did hit a nerve, this kind of pseudo public science really rubs me the wrong way. It isnt your fault though, or anyone elses. Its just common knowlegde that everyones told. Sorry i went off on one. Ive seen this discussion a thousand times and every single time about half the comments consist of "All of them are deformed!". It will never cease to irk me. I just wanted to clear it up and came over a little... zealous. No hate intended toward you.

Its ok, I have my pet peeves too. I have learned something here as its not a subject I have ever really thought about and do just go with the 'generalisation'so your right but this happens with many other things as well.

So maybe not for first cousins, but what if say a brother and sister (awful to think, I know) had a child? Surely that must cause problems of being very close genetically or is it the same?

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Man its a forum. Don't expect everyone to be an expert, I said I stand corrected above. Its not like the world reads this forum and runs off quoting everything they read. People really shouldn't take too much what they read on forums in general, like you have.

Your whole essay makes it seem like I hit a nerve, when it wasn't my intention.

Sorry, ive edited my post already to add in a little extra. You did hit a nerve, this kind of pseudo public science really rubs me the wrong way. It isnt your fault though, or anyone elses. Its just common knowlegde that everyones told. Sorry i went off on one. Ive seen this discussion a thousand times and every single time about half the comments consist of "All of them are deformed!". It will never cease to irk me. I just wanted to clear it up and came over a little... zealous. No hate intended toward you.

Its ok, I have my pet peeves too. I have learned something here as its not a subject I have ever really thought about and do just go with the 'generalisation'so your right but this happens with many other things as well.

So maybe not for first cousins, but what if say a brother and sister (awful to think, I know) had a child? Surely that must cause problems of being very close genetically or is it the same?

Well as far as i can tell the risk is for the same reason but far more likely. If youre disease free completely (as in 100% geneticall healthy not even a carrier) then your kids will be fine as far as generation 1 is concerned. I cant predict what would happen after that. It really only occurs when genetic defects are involved, eyesight would be a very common one that would likely be pretty bad for the kid. But no worse than two unrelated but almost blind people having a kid. Its an increased risk but we let known genetically diseased people breed so its hard to say where the line is.

 

[Blobpie]

To answer this question i have to think, would i marry my cousin?
....
....
No.... it just seams so... wrong

 

[Realitycrash]

Img

You're new, so I'll give you a fair warning: It's against the rules to reply with only one picture, especially if it doesn't contribute anything to the discussion (because then you are breaking two rules).
Read the posting-rules before you get yourself warned by a moderator.

 

[Realitycrash]

Img

You're new, so I'll give you a fair warning: It's against the rules to reply with only one picture, especially if it doesn't contribute anything to the discussion (because then you are breaking two rules).
Read the posting-rules before you get yourself warned by a moderator.

Thats good to know. I didn't read rules. (Hides in the bushes so the moderator can't find him.)

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/codeofconduct

There you go.

 

[bobmus]

Yeah, like it was mentioned above I am pretty sure inbreeding is no-no for genetics, even in first cousins. I'm not a geneticist though so what do I know?

Allow me to step in, first year molecular geneticist here!

Inbreeding is bad in that it reduces the gene pool you're selecting from, increasing the chance of any recessive problems in your family of cropping up in your offspring.
For this reason (malformed and diseased offspring), plus probably some religious writings, it has become taboo over time in our culture.

 

[bobmus]

And yes the genetics are close but that only really comes into play after successive generations of inbreeding. If your family has a genetic history of anything then obviously the risk that those genes are going to be expressed in the offspring are raised, but if your genetics are otherwise healthy then getting it on with your cousin is about as likely to produce your dreaded mutant retard baby as it is with any random stranger.

Genetic history is an unknown, only a phenotypic history (what diseases people have had). This could be spotless, but your family could have been carriers for generations for a rare mutation, that is more likely to be expressed if inbreeding occurs.

Also calling children with genetic defects 'dreaded mutant retard babies' seems both hurtful and incredibly politically incorrect.

 

[Richardplex]

Adopt instead of having children -> all problems with incest disappear. So I have no problem with first cousin marriage. I still think there should be some extra legal hoops to jump through though, prevent the old big brother abusing little sister cliché.

 

[omega 616]

Its legal in Sweden? I knew you guys were a progressive type nation, but I didn't think this was "legal" anywhere. I mean I know its always gone on in certain parts of countries throughout the world but not legally.

While yes it is very frowned upon in my country (Australia) and most other countries, its not really because of just a moral issue. Its a huge health issue, thats why I am surprised a smart country like Sweden has legalised it. First cousin would be a child of a brother or sister, way too close genetics wise. I don't know all the facts on this but I think most babies born out of incest have mental and physical disabilities or a much higher chance of

Are you sure that it is due to health-risk, though?
As far as I know, it takes several generations of inbreeding before any damaging traits to health can be shown.

That is what I have always thought, like the first child isn't going to be born with 6 toes and 8 fingers.

Didn't royals and the higher classes way back when they inbred like crazy 'cos they didn't want commoner blood mixed in with there royal line ...?

I think it is a bit too close for comfort but I don't get why it is illegal, what right does the government have to say who you can and can't marry? Isn't that a personal thing?

 

[Realitycrash]

Its legal in Sweden? I knew you guys were a progressive type nation, but I didn't think this was "legal" anywhere. I mean I know its always gone on in certain parts of countries throughout the world but not legally.

While yes it is very frowned upon in my country (Australia) and most other countries, its not really because of just a moral issue. Its a huge health issue, thats why I am surprised a smart country like Sweden has legalised it. First cousin would be a child of a brother or sister, way too close genetics wise. I don't know all the facts on this but I think most babies born out of incest have mental and physical disabilities or a much higher chance of

Are you sure that it is due to health-risk, though?
As far as I know, it takes several generations of inbreeding before any damaging traits to health can be shown.

That is what I have always thought, like the first child isn't going to be born with 6 toes and 8 fingers.

Didn't royals and the higher classes way back when they inbred like crazy 'cos they didn't want commoner blood mixed in with there royal line ...?

I think it is a bit too close for comfort but I don't get why it is illegal, what right does the government have to say who you can and can't marry? Isn't that a personal thing?

Well, like the wikiquotes we have provided in this thread already, along with member-info, it shows rather clearly that inbreeding isn't as harmful as people think.

And yes, Royals did inbreed a lot, and after centuries, many of them also went insane..

 

[omega 616]

Its legal in Sweden? I knew you guys were a progressive type nation, but I didn't think this was "legal" anywhere. I mean I know its always gone on in certain parts of countries throughout the world but not legally.

While yes it is very frowned upon in my country (Australia) and most other countries, its not really because of just a moral issue. Its a huge health issue, thats why I am surprised a smart country like Sweden has legalised it. First cousin would be a child of a brother or sister, way too close genetics wise. I don't know all the facts on this but I think most babies born out of incest have mental and physical disabilities or a much higher chance of

Are you sure that it is due to health-risk, though?
As far as I know, it takes several generations of inbreeding before any damaging traits to health can be shown.

That is what I have always thought, like the first child isn't going to be born with 6 toes and 8 fingers.

Didn't royals and the higher classes way back when they inbred like crazy 'cos they didn't want commoner blood mixed in with there royal line ...?

I think it is a bit too close for comfort but I don't get why it is illegal, what right does the government have to say who you can and can't marry? Isn't that a personal thing?

Well, like the wikiquotes we have provided in this thread already, along with member-info, it shows rather clearly that inbreeding isn't as harmful as people think.

And yes, Royals did inbreed a lot, and after centuries, many of them also went insane..

I knew about disease's, I just chose to leave them out.

All that people who are carriers doing it with carriers etc is pretty obvious stuff to be honest.

 

[Loop Stricken]

And yes the genetics are close but that only really comes into play after successive generations of inbreeding. If your family has a genetic history of anything then obviously the risk that those genes are going to be expressed in the offspring are raised, but if your genetics are otherwise healthy then getting it on with your cousin is about as likely to produce your dreaded mutant retard baby as it is with any random stranger.

Genetic history is an unknown, only a phenotypic history (what diseases people have had). This could be spotless, but your family could have been carriers for generations for a rare mutation, that is more likely to be expressed if inbreeding occurs.

Also calling children with genetic defects 'dreaded mutant retard babies' seems both hurtful and incredibly politically incorrect.

Point the first: Fair enough, I should've probably phrased that more in terms of known medical history than all-the-way-back-to-sodding-mitochondrial-Eve genetic history. I assumed people would know what I meant; perhaps I did so erroneously.

Point the second: I'm taking the piss out of all the scaremongering. I assumed people would know what I meant; perhaps I did so erroneously.

 

[Crenelate]

meh if it's legal and you want to I don't see why you should't... after all who the fuck really cares about what anyone else thinks so long as it makes you happy

most of the British royal family is inbred as fuck and they seem kinda mostly fine

Yes, but space-reptiles don't suffer from genetic diseases! Actually if you look back a couple of generations there was a LOT of problems with Haemophilia in a fair few European monarchies because they married cousins and stuff.

And yes it's legal in the UK, and I think it should be, because the social stigma is usually enough to put people off. And no, I wouldn't be inclined, because our family all hate each other.