First-World Proselytizing
- Thread starter bz316
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As a Christian, there is a big difference between hearing and knowing about Christianity and accepting Jesus into your heart, just as there is a big difference between knowing something is out there versus truly being a part of it. Sadly, no one can really explain it because spirituality is a personal thing.
I've lived with Jesus in my life and I've lived without Jesus in my life, and for my part, things are *so* much easier for me with Him than without Him. I certainly don't expect non-Christians to be on the same page, and I can't. Those Christians who *do* hold non-Christians to be on the same page tend to be the more self-righteous ones that cause headaches for the rest of us.
Having said that, in simple terms, what missionaries (etc) do is a universal concept - Marketing. Churches want to market themselves just as any organization. For all they know, you've been thinking about church for a while, and they want to let you know they're out there.
From a Christian's perspective, it's no different than a gym marketing itself - you know getting in shape is good for you, but that doesn't mean gyms don't need to advertise. The only difference is spiritual health instead of physical health.
I've lived with Jesus in my life and I've lived without Jesus in my life, and for my part, things are *so* much easier for me with Him than without Him. I certainly don't expect non-Christians to be on the same page, and I can't. Those Christians who *do* hold non-Christians to be on the same page tend to be the more self-righteous ones that cause headaches for the rest of us.
Having said that, in simple terms, what missionaries (etc) do is a universal concept - Marketing. Churches want to market themselves just as any organization. For all they know, you've been thinking about church for a while, and they want to let you know they're out there.
From a Christian's perspective, it's no different than a gym marketing itself - you know getting in shape is good for you, but that doesn't mean gyms don't need to advertise. The only difference is spiritual health instead of physical health.
See, that's the kind of faith I can respect. It's clearly represented, it doesn't push too hard, it offers the chance to at least try and dig deeper. If I choose not to - no biggie. All the considerate Christians I know don't think any less of me because I'd much rather nerd over quark-gluon plasma than the mystery of the Eucharist.ZorroFonzarelli said:
I tend to think matters of faith are pretty personal. There's a way to present any given faith that manages to leave the recipient some time to think it over. Choosing to believe (or not to believe as the case may be) isn't something people tend to do in a flash. There's motivating instances, personal reasons or deeper philosophical considerations that come into play.
Then, of course, you've got the more active proselytizers. "CONVERT RIGHT FUCKING NOW OR FUCKING DIE!" they say. Or worse, if you go by some Baptist churches - "CONVERT NOW AND WIN STUFF!"
I think that's the issue, here. Pushing for a disingenuous "conversion" hurts everyone and everything that's involved. The faithful's credibility, the incipient member's own dignity, the deeper aspects of the presented creed or faith; and whatever it is that's being left behind.
That's more or less why, as an atheist, I tend to cringe when I hear some of my peers switch to all-out aggression when faced with Christians.
I think his point is that everyone at least gets the gist and you're not going to get many converts when everyone's already rejected what they're relentlessly pedalling.Hero in a half shell said:
And if there is, he doesn't exactly sound like the sort of chap you'd want to bow down to. He has been known, after all, to demand a blood sacrifice.Arakasi said:
Ya, I totally agree. If we didn't have Coke advertising where would I get my daily polar bear infusion round Christmas time.Daystar Clarion said:Well, one of those things is infinitely more worthwhile than the otherColour-Scientist said:
To both Christianity and Coke: just because you're well-known doesn't mean you're well-liked. I can see why people would want to invest some time and energy to bring you around to their point of view.
I mean, this group of people has started wars that have cost countless lives and driven others to depths of obsession and depravity that most rational people couldn't even fathom. Their zealots and political puppets have made created a cultural atmosphere of bigotry and narrow-mindedness that has ironically driven so many people away from their message.
But we can't let those ding bats ruin this for the reasonable people who also partake in that philosophy.
What I'm saying is, give Coca-Cola purchasers a chance.
I mean, this group of people has started wars that have cost countless lives and driven others to depths of obsession and depravity that most rational people couldn't even fathom. Their zealots and political puppets have made created a cultural atmosphere of bigotry and narrow-mindedness that has ironically driven so many people away from their message.
But we can't let those ding bats ruin this for the reasonable people who also partake in that philosophy.
What I'm saying is, give Coca-Cola purchasers a chance.
I didn't know about it...Daystar Clarion said:
I'm sure there are people who haven't heard of it. Hell there are people who haven't heard of WW2, No I'm not exaggerating (I spelled probably spelled that wrong but I'm tired) people have actually not heard of it. It makes me sad because these people are allowed to breed.
You're sort of obliged, when you're the one who knows who created the universe and watches over humanity, to spread the word when everyone who doesn't know is going to live the rest of eternity in anguish if you don't explain that it's true. It doesn't matter that it's futile and you look like an idiot, it's the principle. How could you sleep at night knowing people will go to hell and you could've prevented it?
At least, I imagine that's what it's like. I'm the person scowling as you try to hand me a pamphlet. Or in one case, shouting over you as you act like some sort of train station evangelist.
I did see an interview though, with a marketing director at Coca Cola, and apparently they aim to have absolute saturation, ie. Coca Cola wherever you look. As in that is a real thing that they are trying to make happen.
At least, I imagine that's what it's like. I'm the person scowling as you try to hand me a pamphlet. Or in one case, shouting over you as you act like some sort of train station evangelist.
I did see an interview though, with a marketing director at Coca Cola, and apparently they aim to have absolute saturation, ie. Coca Cola wherever you look. As in that is a real thing that they are trying to make happen.
Brand awareness, that's why; marketing campaigns for stuff like Coca Cola aren't there to sell Coca Cola, per se, but they're there to remind us that Coca Cola exists, and that when it's a hot day and you're thirsty and there's a corner shop open, that advertising makes you think 'man, a nice cold can of Coca Cola would be really nice about now.'Daystar Clarion said:
Same thing with people still trying to get others to convert to Christianity; the ratio of success to effort is probably not worth it in direct terms, but by reminding you of Christianity it's brought to the forefront of the mind. So when it's a hot day (read: you're feeling down, in need of something more important than yourself yadeyada) and you're thirsty (read: for spiritual guidance) so you go into the corner shop (read: a local church) and get yourself a nice cold can of Coca Cola (read: a nice cold can of Jesus).
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to market Christ in a Can. It Messi-icious!
Possibly they are trying to get other types of christians to join their church.
As an aside, everyone knows, eveyrone fucking has it drummed into thyem, that unprotected sex is one of the main ways HIV/AIDS is passed on. But you have to keep telling them, over and over and over again, because there are people tool fucking stupid to pay attention the first few dozens times, and the moment the government awareness campaigns slow down there's an increase in transmission rates, and people act surprised.
As an aside, everyone knows, eveyrone fucking has it drummed into thyem, that unprotected sex is one of the main ways HIV/AIDS is passed on. But you have to keep telling them, over and over and over again, because there are people tool fucking stupid to pay attention the first few dozens times, and the moment the government awareness campaigns slow down there's an increase in transmission rates, and people act surprised.
Maybe they were a Reformed Neo Buddhist and wanted to become a level 5 Laser Lotus.Hagi said:
It does come with a bitching outfit.
I bet Jesus would be a terrible roommate. Great for parties sure, and you'd definitely save on the food bills, but whenever you try and bring a girl back he'll be all judgemental and ask if you plan to get married anytime soon.ZorroFonzarelli said:
There's also the issue that, as with the marketing examples others have used, people aren't trying to push Christianity as a whole but their preferred flavour of it. Mormon beliefs are greatly different from Catholic, which are greatly different from Evangelical Fundamentalist, and so on. Hell, the more extreme members of those groups don't even consider one another to be Christians; they often see them as either poor souls deceived by Satan or just plain heretical.Hero in a half shell said:
Even if everyone has heard of Christianity, they're probably aware of it as a general concept ("it's that Jesus dude, and something about Santa, right?") rather than the specifics of any particular sect. The central message may be the same but the trimmings are very different (sola scriptura vs interpretation, different versions of the bible, transubstantiation etc), and generally people trying to push "the good word" are specifically trying to sell you their version of the good word rather than non-specific that, hey, this Jesus guy was pretty cool.
I have never, ever managed to get a straight answer to this question. I've read some attempts at justifying at, but that's all they ever seem to be; attempts. They never address the central question that underpins all my misgivings about the Jesus stories, which is why?! Why do everything in such a roundabout, half-arsed way? Why bother at all? Why not just be cool about the whole deal?someonehairy-ish said:
The standard answer given is usually "God is so much greater than us, he sees things from a totally different perspective, obviously we wouldn't understand why he does things but whatever he does is the right thing"
Which basically means "I don't know either, stop asking awkward questions and go away"
