A) Fair enough, though since she made a specific mention of using the comment section of the vid to get a feel for the kickstarter, a surprise with her normal heavy-handed censorship, it was the best I could do.Trilligan said:A better chance at response may be had trying to contact her through her website rather than youtube, considering your responses will probably be buried in the mess.runic knight said:A) I have given her a chance. Couple weeks back when I ran across her vids on gaming in general (way before this mess or her kickstarter), when I read her post misrepresenting gamers as the troll in her vids and again when I tried to give her vids another chance recently. Also I have left a few comments trying to open a dialog pertaining to tropes and story elements in gaming and how they may be seen as sexist. Unlike many of the trolls, she didn't see fit to respond back and the habit of locking down her videos shows she is not interested in a discussion on the topic. So, I am not dismissing so much as responding to what she has shown thus far. If she pulls something out that is a turn around, I will be interested, but as it is, she has not.
Raw data and discussion of story elements is a fine goal. Maybe a new thread is in order? This one is obviously not going to be the place for it. Everything here is laden with emotional baggage do to the inherent nature of the OP.runic knight said:B)It would be better to get raw unbiased data and draw conclusion first. We've not gone far enough to make sides well beyond anything but idle thoughts. I'd love to actually get a feel for where gamers really stand in a scientific manner but as it is, I hjave not the money to do so. I... kinda doubt a kickstarter for the purpose will get as much attention as a 4chan fueled hate-fest against a woman though. So for now, I will stick with my notions about story elements and the like and hope for discussion not mired in this current drama.
I think you sell yourself and your side short. You might not get huge media-circus coverage, but a youtube video and a couple well-placed forum posts stating your intent to the community at large could draw a great deal of support.runic knight said:As for why we would not get as much funding, it is simple. First, we lack the publicity. A woman attacked because she talks about women in game got news, and with it public outcry and response. A civil rebuttal on the matter would not get that attention. It wouldn't get the attention of the trolls who don't want to contribute to the discussion anyways (they are their own side in this, more like a wildfire then a dog in this fight), it wouldn't get the gamer attention since they are already so polarized by this crap, any attempt to support opposition of her would be called misogynist right off the bat (and has been when pointing out the bullshit of her claims about gamers). All that is left are fewer and farther between, and without publicity, even if they wanted to, they wouldn't know to donate.
Without a controversy, you don't get much attention. Not very controversial to go "seeking money to fund reasoned and logical assessment of gamers stances on isms"
Yes, gamers speak out against them. I know, I'm one of them. But a lot of gamers just shrug their shoulders and say "what did you expect?" like that somehow makes it okay. And a lot confront anyone speaking out against them with a lot of BS counter-arguments about how horrible Sarkeesian is, like she deserved it. Which is just as horrible, because it's not just allowing the bad behavior, it's facilitating and approving of it, while trying to pretend to be objective. In fact, it might be more horrible, because on top of misogynistic it's also dishonest.runic knight said:it is only as indicative as it would be to make the claim about humanity in general. When you start to make inclusions over such broad terms, you will get the nutters. You can't, in good conscious, say that because you roped some, it is indicative of the whole. Because one guy in germany did, doesn't mean all humans have cannibalistic bents to them.
Also, other forms of christianity DO speak out against them. It is just not as well reported because they are seen as a collective of individuals because so man do protest them. Same is true here. A lot of gamers protested these assholes as well as non-gamers.
B)True, and I was thinking of doing that, though it was more about showing how a deeper and more valid discussion was being largely ignored for the sake of this drama, and was actually representative of how I feel her videos have been on the topic in general. The distract, polarize and tire the audience of the topic. Also a little frustration of having to sift through his garbage before i can get to the fun discussions.
C)Possible, but I am not quite sure I would be the right one nor if I could maintain the energy and effort to make such videos and a whole study. I'd love to, but I think I'd quit before anything really came of it. Also learning how to make videos and doing the sampling of people would be a pain for me at the moment.
d)This seems to be part of why i dislike her vids in general. People are sick of hearing this same stuff. This is the same argument that has been going on since games started about how games v. Girls. People are sick of it, sick of the stereotypes and have become so jaded, they don't pay much attention when the next one cries wolf. When added to the mix of youtube having trolls, a lot of people didn't care because it wasn't news.
This isn't saying people support the trolls. They are trolls, we already know they are wrong. Why kick that dead horse trying to shame or decry something we all universally hate as it is?
This isn't saying she deserved it, so much as often as "she should have expected it". One can only feel so sorry about a man draped in raw meat walking into the lion's den. This isn't blaming her for the reaction's ferocity, but on youtube, with a vid spammed over 4chan... there was gonna be a reaction.
No one is supporting the trolls, but that doesn't mean we have to support her either. And failure to support here does not mean we support the trolls. As I said, if you want to ascribe sides to this, you have anita's side of this, the "she has no purpose or point of real discussion" side, and then a raging wildfire consuming anything and everything in reach in the trolls. Not supporting her doesn't mean we are feeding the fire. At worse it means we are trying to ignore it and hope it dies away.