"For privacy, Origin is the same as Steam" WRONG!!! -Updated

[jpoon]

Fucking, double post...if only there were a "Delete reply" button on here.

 

[TerribleAssassin]

Lets say EA takes your hardware specs. Then EA uses this information to better refine and update games. Better games right? Isnt that the point?

Worst case scenario is that EA sells this information. What, exactly, is -anyone- going to do with this information? Like seriously.

Someone, please, tell me what the WORST CASE SCENARIO could possibly be if EA found out my Hardware and Software data?

If EA sells your information to other parties, hell even gives them it, without YOUR permission is illegal in the UK. Also, collecting your data without being told what is being collected or allowing to know is also illegal.

The difference between Steam and Origin is that Steam checks all legal boxes, Origin doesn't.

 

[Rad Party God]

I'll buy Mass Effect 3 and I will play the heck of it, but I won't be using Origin, I'll just search for a crack or a workaround to stop using Origin and done!, I don't like the multiplayer anyways.

 

[Stukov Wolfwood]

I'll buy Mass Effect 3 and I will play the heck of it, but I won't be using Origin, I'll just search for a crack or a workaround to stop using Origin and done!, I don't like the multiplayer anyways.

if you want to buy it beside it's flaws, you would have a better time on 360 or ps3.

 

[Something Amyss]

would you kindly post the entire document or are you only going post the part that makes you sound on the right?

It seems you don't understand quote mining, since both your accusation and your example failed.

Of course, since you seem to think this is somehow out of context, perhaps you can point out the part what would change that context. The only one I could find is the one I already commented on, which is again specific to third-party deals.

But please, have at it. Show me the magical part that negates their right to collected personally identifiable information. Please don't cite the part which I already referenced.

If EA sells your information to other parties, hell even gives them it, without YOUR permission is illegal in the UK. Also, collecting your data without being told what is being collected or allowing to know is also illegal.

Which is kind of moot anyway.

EA also added a note that seems directly inspired by the outcry over the last EULA. "EA knows that you care how information about you is collected, used and shared, and we appreciate your trust that we will do so carefully and sensibly," the document now reads. "Information about our customers is an important part of our business, and EA would never sell your personally identifiable information to anyone, nor would it ever use spyware or install spyware on users' machines."

From the EULA, in this case via Joystiq [http://www.joystiq.com/2011/08/26/ea-revises-origin-eula-data-collection-is-still-in-collection/].

Granted, you could complain that Origin is spyware, but in that case, so is Steam.

The difference between Steam and Origin is that Steam checks all legal boxes, Origin doesn't.

Currently, to my knowledge, Origin ticks all the legal boxes as well. Your above claims don't apply to the EULA is it exists now and has existed for over half a year now. The Origin EULA no longer says it collects data for third party use.

Far as I can tell, NONE of what you claim is illegal is in there anymore. Most people seem to be ranting about an out-of-date EULA that lasted about a week.

Honestly, this all sounds like political squablling I see in the states all the time. Steam vs Origin is basically the same. People ***** about the other party's sexual affairs, but not their own party's. We hate EA, so when EA does something we don't like, we bash them. We love Valve, so when Valve does something we shouldn't like (even if it's roughly equivalent), we make excuses for them.

And if we have to hang on to an outdated document that no longer applies, we will. BECAUSE PONIES.

 

[Stukov Wolfwood]

would you kindly post the entire document or are you only going post the part that makes you sound on the right?

It seems you don't understand quote mining, since both your accusation and your example failed.

Of course, since you seem to think this is somehow out of context, perhaps you can point out the part what would change that context. The only one I could find is the one I already commented on, which is again specific to third-party deals.

But please, have at it. Show me the magical part that negates their right to collected personally identifiable information. Please don't cite the part which I already referenced.

Collection and Use of Information
By using Valve's online sites and products, users agree that Valve may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information, AS DEFINED BELOW.

/Start music turnabout Objection!

"As defined below."

That means there is an explanation of when, where, and why. And since it doesn't show that part, the quoting is out of context. Deliberate or not, you did not quoted the most important part of the document.

/Stops music turnabout Objection!

 

[ph0b0s123]

Added an update to the first topic post.

Update: Catching up on my 'Extra credits' watching. Interested to find part of a mailbag episode where they say what they thing about Origin. I.e the privacy concerns were enough for James who is an industry insider, not to Buy Battlefield 3....

@ 3.40 here: http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/mailbag-4

 

[Stukov Wolfwood]

Added an update to the first topic post.

Update: Catching up on my 'Extra credits' watching. Interested to find part of a mailbag episode where they say what they thing about Origin. I.e the privacy concerns were enough for James who is an industry insider, not to Buy Battlefield 3....

@ 3.40 here: http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/mailbag-4

same here, i was ready to buy battlefield 3 on pc since it was anounced, but when i sow it was origin only, and the privacy concerns, i came to the same realization as james did.

so i played neither battlefield 3 nor mw3. and i was happy with just keep playing tf2.

 

[meepop]

Personally I think that if someone goes through all the effort to run No-scripts, ad-blocks, javablocks, cookie untrackers, etc etc...then they do have something to hide, even if they claim the opposite. However that is just my opinion so take with a grain of salt.

On the Origin/Steam debate I think it has been blown way out of proportion. I use both. Steam for the good sales and whatnot, and Origin for the EA titles that I want to play, Old Republic and ME3 in particular. I will be the first to admit I used to be in the "Zomg Origin is spying on people!!1!" camp, but after a bit of research and taking the piss I came to the conclusion that it was nowhere near the catastrophe that people were making it out to be.

Origin is looking at my hardware/software specs for my PC? Big whoop, benchmark sites do that when I go to see if my PC can run the newest games smoothly. I mean honestly, what could they do? "This man is only running a dual-core processor! RELEASE THE HOUNDS!"

Now I'm all for people sticking to their guns and principle and such...but jeez...there are times you gotta admit that maybe you're being a bit too paranoid and/or sensitive and need to get over it.

I agree with this 100%. I use Steam and Origin, and don't mind defending Origin if some ignorant person(s) will forsake playing a game like BF3 or ME3 on PC just because of something that snoops around in your computer for some random stuff. Yes, they don't ask, but really, the government doesn't ask you for permission to pass laws does it?

 

[ph0b0s123]

-snip-

I agree with this 100%. I use Steam and Origin, and don't mind defending Origin if some ignorant person(s) will forsake playing a game like BF3 or ME3 on PC just because of something that snoops around in your computer for some random stuff. Yes, they don't ask, but really, the government doesn't ask you for permission to pass laws does it?

So James Portnow who writes Extra Credits and other stuff and is part of the industry is ignorant. Ok....

Government don't ask if you want laws created?! Erm, yes they do, when you vote for them or if you register your displeasure with a proposed law. Like when they stopped progressing the SOPA legislation a very short time ago due to peoples feedback. Really calling the pot black with that ignorant remark....

 

[DoPo]

Yes, they don't ask, but really, the government doesn't ask you for permission to pass laws does it?

Yes, yes it does. There are those people you elect and you can go to them and demand that they approve or they don't approve a law. Because, see, they have responsibility to the government but also to the people who they represent. Or at least they should do. That's the whole point of democracy - all people have a say in the matter. It's just that groups of people choose one to speak for all of them for convenience reasons. Imagine trying to fit millions of people in one place who should all vote on a single matter.

Or does your government actually work despite the people it governs? If that is the case, then too bad, I suppose, but you shouldn't use that as an example.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

Lets say EA takes your hardware specs. Then EA uses this information to better refine and update games. Better games right? Isnt that the point?

Worst case scenario is that EA sells this information. What, exactly, is -anyone- going to do with this information? Like seriously.

Someone, please, tell me what the WORST CASE SCENARIO could possibly be if EA found out my Hardware and Software data?

They are not allowed to sell the information, cheak their eula.

So then the problem is a no-problem.

EA stores your information to become a better company; they cant sell it, so this means that they will have better knowledge of what their customers are like.

This is only a good thing

It doesn't have to do with the fact that they do that, it's just the principle that you should be allowed to opt out if you so choose. Personally, I'm getting ME3 for Xbox, so I don't have to bother with Origin.

Principle? Sounds more like you just want a chance to complain on the internet. Its is doing absolutely no harm to you; it could actually have a large benefit. Yet you go against this on Principle?

While you are stuck pissing around with "Principle" ill be playing my Mass effect character that i spent over 60 hours creating, finally finishing the epic story that my character deserves, in the way he deserves it. And at the same time, i would be helping the gaming industry in the long run.

You can sit on your Xbox and complain about "Principles" all you want.

Ill just go and have my fun.

A few more practical concerns. The Playstaion fiasco has proven that these things aren't fool proof, and even Steam had a minor hacking incident. Also, can we know that EA can be trusted to use the info for good. Even though it is a law they can't sell it, the ECLU you have to sign, which states you forgo your right to sue EA (which may or may not be legal, no court case on the matter has yet to come up), so you can't take them to court if they do. They could also use the tool to figure out what percentages of people play from what set ups, figuring out which ones are not worth supporting since not enough of the player base uses it. They may also "donate" it to the government or other entities who may try to use the info to get around those silly "warrants" and "fourth amendment."

EA has never given me any reason to trust them, ever, so why should I blindingly give up all the information I have.

 

[midget_roxx]

Origin - just takes it and you don't know what it is they have collected easily.

It's that simple.

You may say that at the moment the rooting around Origin does, is not very much. But with the precedent set, there is no reason for them not to increase what they do. It is a new system after all.


Edit: Something people are not getting with this. Origin's getting to snoop around your system and communicate what it has found to EA without your say so, is a new paradigm . Up until now every other program has asked if you want to share what has been collected. Even Windows asks if you want to send crash reports with data about your setup, activation only sends a hash. EA are setting a precedent here. It does not matter whether their rooting around is a lot or a little. The line has been crossed and since most seem completely unconcerned with this new way of doing things, other companies will follow. Welcome to the day when every piece of software you install will have a root around your system for the cause of improving their product. And you all allowed it to happen....

It's quite easy to see what files Origin is accessing, Run a process explorer, filter to only origin.exe and everything origin accesses you can see.

As for setting the precendent on sending your information, Apple already sends information off to 3rd party people and you have no opt out either. In fact if you have a smart phone, there's a very high chance that your non so private information is being sent elsewhere

 

[midget_roxx]

Lets say EA takes your hardware specs. Then EA uses this information to better refine and update games. Better games right? Isnt that the point?

Worst case scenario is that EA sells this information. What, exactly, is -anyone- going to do with this information? Like seriously.

Someone, please, tell me what the WORST CASE SCENARIO could possibly be if EA found out my Hardware and Software data?

EA doesn't only grab your Hardware and Software data. Origin has the capability of grabbing exact details (and possibly entire copies) of each and every single file on your computer. Included but not limited to:
-tax documents
-banking statements
-other personal documents stored on computers
-usernames, passwords, and so forth (stored either encrypted or unencrypted in files or the Windows registry)
-detailed MRU (most recently used) file history for your Windows system for most programs that use it including the OS itself, Wordpad, Notepad, etc
-a list of every program you have installed, including torrent software or cd-imaging software, or even whether you're using CD Burner software and how often you ran it and the filenames that you used

Under the current EULA, EA can collect any and all of this information (and more) and have you arrested for POSSIBLE copyright violations as well as simply passing this along to government agencies including the FBI, CIA, NSA, and so forth. The recently-passed 'National Defense Authorization' bill had some really shady wording that already gives them the authority to declare anyone an 'enemy combatant', whether they are a US Citizen or not, and then send them off to Gauntanamo Bay or other spots.

You believe this won't happen? Really?
It'll be funny when it happens to you or someone you know.

Silly Americans, you have no more bill of rights, might wanna get out while you can.

EDIT: To clarify, you can be held legally liable for anything and everything that Origin may or may not find on your computer. This is equivalent to allowing the police the ability to search your home at any time for any reason, rifle through your things, and then leave without a word or without due process or a warrant.

Origin grabs more than software and hardware details? Damn I guess it also grabs your eyes as well!!!! :O
Don't spew false information. No they can't have you arressted for copyright infringement. The reading of tax files was only in Germany and I don't know the full details of that, and by the sounds of things nor do you .

Grabbing encrypted files won't affect you in any way. It's encrypted for a reason, so if someone does grab details they are unreadable

The NDAA wasn't passed recently either. You didn't come across from r/politics did you?

I"m not defending Origin, it is a bad program, but don't seed false information

 

[ph0b0s123]

Origin - just takes it and you don't know what it is they have collected easily.

It's that simple.

You may say that at the moment the rooting around Origin does, is not very much. But with the precedent set, there is no reason for them not to increase what they do. It is a new system after all.


Edit: Something people are not getting with this. Origin's getting to snoop around your system and communicate what it has found to EA without your say so, is a new paradigm . Up until now every other program has asked if you want to share what has been collected. Even Windows asks if you want to send crash reports with data about your setup, activation only sends a hash. EA are setting a precedent here. It does not matter whether their rooting around is a lot or a little. The line has been crossed and since most seem completely unconcerned with this new way of doing things, other companies will follow. Welcome to the day when every piece of software you install will have a root around your system for the cause of improving their product. And you all allowed it to happen....

It's quite easy to see what files Origin is accessing, Run a process explorer, filter to only origin.exe and everything origin accesses you can see.

As for setting the precedent on sending your information, Apple already sends information off to 3rd party people and you have no opt out either. In fact if you have a smart phone, there's a very high chance that your non so private information is being sent elsewhere

I don't give a sh!t how many or what files it is accessing as it should be accessing NONE without me permission.

As has been said to every one else who has said 'oh, this is already been done else where', please post your evidence that Apple collects information about the files on your system without your permission. As far as mobiles, the only one I know about is some programs nicking photos from Android, but that is not expected behavior. But again please backup your statement about phones getting their file systems snooped around and sent out, like Origin does.....

 

[Iandor]

Not sure if any of you has recently been to origin privacy section so I've taken a screenshot of it. http://imageshack.us/f/443/eaoriginprivacysettings.png/
Don't think there's any reason to cry about Origin snooping around your computer against your will now is there....