Foxconn Reportedly Making PS4s With Forced Student Labor

[michael87cn]

Why the fuck are we paying hundreds of dollars for these things, which amount to basically tons of plastic and soldering, when the workers aren't even paid to assemble them? What the fuck?

This is bullshit. I'm not mad about the price, but about all the technology staring at me in the face on my desk right now.

Feel sick.

Also, reading comments like "I could care less where my stuff comes from" makes me just as fucking sick. You SHOULD care, you SHOULD be upset. You fucking would be if you were born in that country/doing work for free. But you aren't. You get to sit in your fucking luxury car holding down a pedal with your foot while it propels you at in-human speeds down a conveniently carved out road for you to your job every day, and you get over paid for goofing off. FUCK!

What a bunch of bullshit. We have it so damn easy and none of us appreciate it. I earn minimum wage and have to bike it to my job, dodging idiot drivers and I thought I had it rough, at least I'm paid to do my job.

 

[Yan007]

Well said Michael. A lot of people don't know how easy they got it. I got it easy in China (relatively speaking) and even then it is difficult compared to my life in Canada.

 

[Something Amyss]

I know, it's not practical to live a comfortable life whilst refusing to buy anything made from slave labour. But, consoles are a purely luxury good and one can do without them. So, it wouldn't hurt to avoid purchasing one brand-new on ethical grounds.

The thing is, so are most of your other luxuries. Have a TV? Monitor? Computer? Smartphone?

Yeah, i guess im overestimating actual PR impact this has. after all pepoepl tend ot think that its china, far away, so doesnt matter.

It might matter if one could successfully ween one's self from their tech. But unless one plans on going Amish, one will probably buy some Foxconn supported materials.

also you can always go for a samsung phone, its not as good granted but its not slave labour. Or HTCs, or are they also manufactured there?

Samsung's been under fire for labour practices in China too, and mentioned in the same breath as Foxconn. I wouldn't count on them to keep your conscience clean.

Financial reports from 2012 list HTC as a Foxconn client, too.

 

[Lightknight]

Sigh, well... we all pay a heavy price for our entertainment. Just think the next time you praise Sony for it being "better" than Microsoft, their hands are just as dirty in how they manufacture things.
And the "everybody does it" attitude doesn't make it right, just means that no company deserves to get a free pass, and no company is better than the other.
Deplorable conditions, deplorable practices, but hey we get cheaper consoles because of it, right?

Are these known to be bad working conditions? I didn't see anything regarding that.

If you really want to be a considerate employee who doesn't purchase anything that has touched questionable hiring practices, you will have to find yourself doing without. Most electronics have components made with actual slave labor. Today, in the year 2013, you likely have a phone in your pocket with some components or materials acquired via a person who is a bona fide slave. The computer you're using to enter or read this post? Also likely has at least some components made that way.

Do you like Chocolate? How about hersey brand chocolate? Child Slavery [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/02/hershey-child-labor_n_2060702.html] (though they promise to end child slavery in their product line by 2020... assholes)

Like Victoria's Secret? Their "fair trade" cotton is planted and harvested by children slaves in Africa. [http://www.businesspundit.com/5-giant-companies-who-use-slave-labor/?img=42010]

That same link shows Microsoft as a huge user of Chinese factories that actually employ slave and child labor. The company Microsoft uses most is KYE which has over 1,000 workers with many 15 years and younger "employees". They work 15 hours per day , no AC. Nokia and Apple both use these kinds of factories as well and those are just the big names that have "admitted" to it.

Forever 21, Aeropostale, Toys ?R? Us, Urban Outfitters (also listed in the Victoria Secret link) also use child slavery. Does anyone else think it ridiculous that Toys 'R' Us has child slaves making clothes for children in our country?

Odds are that you have several items on or closely around you that were made partially at the expense of actual slaves.

This work study crap at Foxconn isn't all rosey. But it isn't slavery, does give them room and board while at college, may actually pay them but that's unclear, and lets them leave at will. It is a known and publicized component of the college and it looks like the biggest complaint is that the work may not be related to their degree at all. I have known American colleges that have required unpaid internships as part of the coursework and those still exist. So it's easy to complain about this example but it's not slavery or "forced" labor. They can leave at any time and were aware of this condition for graduating. It's like saying that I was "forced" to complete two semesters of a foreign language and that's evil because I couldn't not do it and still graduate. Despite it not being particularly relevant to my area of study.

 

[Strazdas]

The thing is, so are most of your other luxuries. Have a TV? Monitor? Computer? Smartphone?

Yeah, i guess im overestimating actual PR impact this has. after all pepoepl tend ot think that its china, far away, so doesnt matter.

It might matter if one could successfully ween one's self from their tech. But unless one plans on going Amish, one will probably buy some Foxconn supported materials.

also you can always go for a samsung phone, its not as good granted but its not slave labour. Or HTCs, or are they also manufactured there?

Samsung's been under fire for labour practices in China too, and mentioned in the same breath as Foxconn. I wouldn't count on them to keep your conscience clean.

Financial reports from 2012 list HTC as a Foxconn client, too.

Sigh. I guess there was a subconciuos reason i bought a LG phone then. It isnt smartphone. but my mom thne bought huawei smartphone, didnt knew how to use it, so we switched. which i guess still supports foxconn, so guilty as charged.
I dont have a TV. well i do. its over 15 years old, has spent the last 6 years of its life in a basement and wasnt turned on since it moved there.
Monitor? Old LG FLatron and a built in laptop one i dont know who manufactured.
Computer? Guilty as charged here, i bought HP, never again im buying anything HP, all thier products seem to be cut corners at users expense.
You CAN get by without slave labour, but its going to be more expensive. there still are factories making electronics in all over europe, even genrmany, of course it will cost you double, but quality will be there as well, and its no slave labour (even if its drunk romanians, they come there willingly).

Do you like Chocolate? How about hersey brand chocolate? Child Slavery [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/02/hershey-child-labor_n_2060702.html] (though they promise to end child slavery in their product line by 2020... assholes)

Like Victoria's Secret? Their "fair trade" cotton is planted and harvested by children slaves in Africa. [http://www.businesspundit.com/5-giant-companies-who-use-slave-labor/?img=42010]

That same link shows Microsoft as a huge user of Chinese factories that actually employ slave and child labor. The company Microsoft uses most is KYE which has over 1,000 workers with many 15 years and younger "employees". They work 15 hours per day , no AC. Nokia and Apple both use these kinds of factories as well and those are just the big names that have "admitted" to it.

Forever 21, Aeropostale, Toys ?R? Us, Urban Outfitters (also listed in the Victoria Secret link) also use child slavery. Does anyone else think it ridiculous that Toys 'R' Us has child slaves making clothes for children in our country?

Odds are that you have several items on or closely around you that were made partially at the expense of actual slaves.

This work study crap at Foxconn isn't all rosey. But it isn't slavery, does give them room and board while at college, may actually pay them but that's unclear, and lets them leave at will. It is a known and publicized component of the college and it looks like the biggest complaint is that the work may not be related to their degree at all. I have known American colleges that have required unpaid internships as part of the coursework and those still exist. So it's easy to complain about this example but it's not slavery or "forced" labor. They can leave at any time and were aware of this condition for graduating. It's like saying that I was "forced" to complete two semesters of a foreign language and that's evil because I couldn't not do it and still graduate. Despite it not being particularly relevant to my area of study.

Hersey chocolate? at first i thought you mistyped, i never even heard about such a thing. Then again as far as sweets are concerned i buy most of them made in company called "Ruta", since they are the only ones in my country using actual chocolate and not fake one and have very tasty, albeit more expensive, sweets. no slave labour either, even if the workers do get paid rather small, then again so does our whole country.

is victorias secret still a thing? i was under the impression only rich vanity driven girls with too much money and no brains even bothered with it anymore.
Nokia and Apple are probably the onles ones that manage to use slave labour and still raise the prices 10 times the products worth though. you have to give respect wher respect is due, they managed to herd whole world into their hypnosis.

Your wrong about them being able to leave though. read up above as a poster there have actually explained it more clearly than i would manage. they "can" leave just like they "can" suicide. sure they "Can" but its not very rewarding now is it?

 

[Something Amyss]

You CAN get by without slave labour, but its going to be more expensive. there still are factories making electronics in all over europe, even genrmany, of course it will cost you double, but quality will be there as well, and its no slave labour (even if its drunk romanians, they come there willingly).

The problem is, a lot of companies use parts from Foxconn plants, so you don't necessarily know what's actually clean. You might have parts on your computer right now manufactured by Foxconn even if the whole or even the discrete components are not.

 

[Lightknight]

Hersey chocolate? at first i thought you mistyped, i never even heard about such a thing. Then again as far as sweets are concerned i buy most of them made in company called "Ruta", since they are the only ones in my country using actual chocolate and not fake one and have very tasty, albeit more expensive, sweets. no slave labour either, even if the workers do get paid rather small, then again so does our whole country.

Most cocoa is harvested in Africa by slave labor. If Ruta doesn't have their own cocoa farm then you've got to ask where they get it from. From a quick search online, it looks like Ruta (if it is Ruta Del Cacao) does have their own cocoa plantations. I don't know if that's the same company or if it's even their main Cocoa source. As of 2002 there was over 109,000 child slaves in cocoa farms in the Ivory Coast ALONE. 200,000 by 2005. This region produces 35% of the entire worlds cocoa by itself. While West Africa in general produces almost 70%. They think it's as many as 1.8 million child laborers there in the cocoa farms. I mean, at what point...?

It's literally so pervasive that it has it's own wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_in_cocoa_production

is victorias secret still a thing? i was under the impression only rich vanity driven girls with too much money and no brains even bothered with it anymore.

It wasn't just Victoria Secret. It's cotton production in a lot of clothes goods like Forever 21, Aeropostale, Toys 'R' Us, Urban Outfitters.

It's likely in several other brands too.

Nokia and Apple are probably the onles ones that manage to use slave labour and still raise the prices 10 times the products worth though. you have to give respect wher respect is due, they managed to herd whole world into their hypnosis.

Apple artificially increases their prices as they are clearly targeting the product differentiation based on quality rather than low cost. Nokia was slowly getting edged out of the market by everyone else, it's a tough market with Samsung and Apple muscling them out.

Your wrong about them being able to leave though. read up above as a poster there have actually explained it more clearly than i would manage. they "can" leave just like they "can" suicide. sure they "Can" but its not very rewarding now is it?

No, they can leave but they won't have the required credits to graduate (assuming they can't just take a few more classes after that, which isn't specified in the article, maybe they can?). They joined the college knowing this was a required work study project as the original article stated. The requirement of a college specified work study project is common in the US as well. Often unpaid internships where they truly don't get anything in return and yet "have" to do it if they want that degree.

It's like saying that I was forced to take two semesters of Spanish because my college required it in the College of Business. I have no pity for individuals who get to the end of the semester they thought was their last and suddenly realise that they can't get their diploma without those two foreign language semesters and so have to keep going for another 6 months. As the article says, it mentions the work study prominently. I'd say the only thing bad about it is that the work study isn't a better program that suits their area of study. It is a job in the workforce so it gives them some work experience but really, what does an accountant need to know about gluing stuff?

 

[Lightknight]

You CAN get by without slave labour, but its going to be more expensive. there still are factories making electronics in all over europe, even genrmany, of course it will cost you double, but quality will be there as well, and its no slave labour (even if its drunk romanians, they come there willingly).

The problem is, a lot of companies use parts from Foxconn plants, so you don't necessarily know what's actually clean. You might have parts on your computer right now manufactured by Foxconn even if the whole or even the discrete components are not.

This isn't slave labor. Let's be sure to clarify it going forward. It also isn't forced (they can leave the program at any time and will just be down 6 credits).

That's unless we consider unpaid internships in America to all be slave labor too. Then sure, according to that revision of the definition this would be too. Except they are getting compensation while in college.

 

[Strazdas]

You CAN get by without slave labour, but its going to be more expensive. there still are factories making electronics in all over europe, even genrmany, of course it will cost you double, but quality will be there as well, and its no slave labour (even if its drunk romanians, they come there willingly).

The problem is, a lot of companies use parts from Foxconn plants, so you don't necessarily know what's actually clean. You might have parts on your computer right now manufactured by Foxconn even if the whole or even the discrete components are not.

Yeah, that is indeed a problem. ANd it is a hard one to come around. thats why we need other ways to stop foxconn than just not buying.

Hersey chocolate? at first i thought you mistyped, i never even heard about such a thing. Then again as far as sweets are concerned i buy most of them made in company called "Ruta", since they are the only ones in my country using actual chocolate and not fake one and have very tasty, albeit more expensive, sweets. no slave labour either, even if the workers do get paid rather small, then again so does our whole country.

Most cocoa is harvested in Africa by slave labor. If Ruta doesn't have their own cocoa farm then you've got to ask where they get it from. From a quick search online, it looks like Ruta (if it is Ruta Del Cacao) does have their own cocoa plantations. I don't know if that's the same company or if it's even their main Cocoa source. As of 2002 there was over 109,000 child slaves in cocoa farms in the Ivory Coast ALONE. 200,000 by 2005. This region produces 35% of the entire worlds cocoa by itself. While West Africa in general produces almost 70%. They think it's as many as 1.8 million child laborers there in the cocoa farms. I mean, at what point...?

It's literally so pervasive that it has it's own wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_in_cocoa_production

Its been a while since i talked with them about this but i believe they get their cocoa from somewhere more across the ocean. cant say im certain now though they did not mention africa at all. The Ruta you found appears to be a different one. Its unlikely youd find much as while it is exporting its still rather local in comparison to the big boys. And its growth is slow because it tries to bring quality without cutting corners, leaving them with more expensive product harder to sell. They are no angels (though the original owner back in 19th century was pretty darn cool guy from what is told) but they are the good guys when it comes to these things.

It wasn't just Victoria Secret. It's cotton production in a lot of clothes goods like Forever 21, Aeropostale, Toys 'R' Us, Urban Outfitters.

It's likely in several other brands too.

Granted, i may be an ignorant eastenr european, but theo nyl brand i recognize here is Toys R Us, and that only because it apperently sells videogames in US i think or something. well escapist wrote couple articles about it.

No, they can leave but they won't have the required credits to graduate (assuming they can't just take a few more classes after that, which isn't specified in the article, maybe they can?).

Well if you actually took meo n my advice and read up the thread, you would know that no, they cant.

They joined the college knowing this was a required work study project as the original article stated. The requirement of a college specified work study project is common in the US as well. Often unpaid internships where they truly don't get anything in return and yet "have" to do it if they want that degree.

Well i did not call them salve labour to begin with and yes your comparison to unpaid internship would be comparible if such internship would cause you to do manufacturing labour for 15 hours (which isnt legal even in china, they limited it to 14 hours few years ago). But you imply that such unpaid internship is not abuse of students here in the west. it is.

 

[deadish]

Wow. Sensationalism at it's finest.

Put a big name in the headline. "PS4". Checked.
Exaggerate. "Forced Student Labor" ... when it's a bunch of voluntary interns. Checked.

A more accurate headline would be:

"Foxconn ... cons university students into working as assembly line workers."

Of course, that won't bring in the eyeballs.

Journalistic integrity? What is that?

 

[Lightknight]

No, they can leave but they won't have the required credits to graduate (assuming they can't just take a few more classes after that, which isn't specified in the article, maybe they can?).

Well if you actually took meo n my advice and read up the thread, you would know that no, they cant.[/quote] The poster is not claiming any special knowledge aside from currently residing in China. They also explain that people have left but it doesn't sound like the person knows. Not sure why I'd take the information of an unknown over the original article.

Well i did not call them salve labour to begin with and yes your comparison to unpaid internship would be comparible if such internship would cause you to do manufacturing labour for 15 hours (which isnt legal even in china, they limited it to 14 hours few years ago). But you imply that such unpaid internship is not abuse of students here in the west. it is.

It doesn't say they work for 15 hours a day. Merely that their work load is the same as the other standard workers.

Honestly, we have no information about anything other than a college being sneaky with requiring work programs that the article admits they advertise. Nothing to do with Sony or even Microsoft.

 

[Lightknight]

Wow. Sensationalism at it's finest.

Put a big name in the headline. "PS4". Checked.
Exaggerate. "Forced Student Labor" ... when it's a bunch of voluntary interns. Checked.

A more accurate headline would be:

"Foxconn ... cons university students into working as assembly line workers."

Of course, that won't bring in the eyeballs.

Journalistic integrity? What is that?

It even oddly singles out ps4 even though Microsoft also uses this facility.

We really need some more information as the original article doesn't even know if it compensates the students and had to update the article to remove that comment. This could even be a paid internship.

 

[Vareoth]

Modern slavery and how it is tolerated in the 1st world is such a fascinating research subject. All anyone ever cares about is their own indulgence. Greed is such a powerful tool. Too bad there's not much I can do about it.

Just yet.

 

[BrownGaijin]

For some reason, after having finished reading the article, I envisioned a typical American High School kid getting frustrated at their job in a burger joint, and spitting into a customer's food.

Can't imagine what the interns would do to a PS 4.

 

[Lightknight]

Modern slavery and how it is tolerated in the 1st world is such a fascinating research subject. All anyone ever cares about is their own indulgence. Greed is such a powerful tool. Too bad there's not much I can do about it.

Just yet.

Not slavery. Article title is misleading. Multiple people signed on to this college knowing that it had a required work study component. They're just upset that it isn't related to their major. The original article had to redact the (not compensated) portion as we know they're getting room and board for working there at least. They can also leave at any time and we do not know that they can't get those 6 credits in another way later.

In the US, we have required internships for some colleges that are unpaid despite being full-time jobs.

Slavery and "forced" are absolutely silly terms to use here. Misleading advertisement? Yeah.

 

[keserak]

Modern slavery and how it is tolerated in the 1st world is such a fascinating research subject. All anyone ever cares about is their own indulgence. Greed is such a powerful tool. Too bad there's not much I can do about it.

Just yet.

Not slavery. Article title is misleading. Multiple people signed on to this college knowing that it had a required work study component. They're just upset that it isn't related to their major. The original article had to redact the (not compensated) portion as we know they're getting room and board for working there at least. They can also leave at any time and we do not know that they can't get those 6 credits in another way later.

In the US, we have required internships for some colleges that are unpaid despite being full-time jobs.

Slavery and "forced" are absolutely silly terms to use here. Misleading advertisement? Yeah.

Wrong. You misread the article. Forced labor is forced labor. The work the students are required to do is unpaid labor obtained by extortion. This is intellectually a simple issue, but thoroughly immoral persons seem to be misconstruing it.

The response to this news shows that people are willing to condone slavery so long as it doesn't happen to them.

 

[Vareoth]

Modern slavery and how it is tolerated in the 1st world is such a fascinating research subject. All anyone ever cares about is their own indulgence. Greed is such a powerful tool. Too bad there's not much I can do about it.

Just yet.

Not slavery. Article title is misleading. Multiple people signed on to this college knowing that it had a required work study component. They're just upset that it isn't related to their major. The original article had to redact the (not compensated) portion as we know they're getting room and board for working there at least. They can also leave at any time and we do not know that they can't get those 6 credits in another way later.

In the US, we have required internships for some colleges that are unpaid despite being full-time jobs.

Slavery and "forced" are absolutely silly terms to use here. Misleading advertisement? Yeah.

Wrong. You misread the article. Forced labor is forced labor. The work the students are required to do is unpaid labor obtained by extortion. This is intellectually a simple issue, but thoroughly immoral persons seem to be misconstruing it.

The response to this news shows that people are willing to condone slavery so long as it doesn't happen to them.

This does look like a classical example of extortion, yes. Any excuses made against this are somewhat hollow when the simple truth is that these students are being forced to work in a factory doing labor that's completely unrelated to their studies. Seems like a con to me.

 

[Something Amyss]

This isn't slave labor. Let's be sure to clarify it going forward.

We were talking the larger practices of Foxconn, where several of the broken stories are about conditions more severe. Let's be sure to leave this kind of intellectual dishonesty out going forward.