Foxconn Reportedly Making PS4s With Forced Student Labor

[MrHide-Patten]

Reading the headline I pictured 10 year olds, not "kids" majoring in finance. Click bait much, I just assume that any piece of technology is glued together with childs tears.

I would however be lying if I said I cared for the plights of people slightly younger than I am being stiffed at an internship. It's not like they're shackled to the workstations.

So being forced to do unpaid work of no relevance to their degree mearly to complete their degrees is fine because they aren't children.

I'd figure they'd have developed some form of independent thought (at that age) enough to say 'fuck this shit' and leave and if they're too spineless and/or stupid to do otherwise then they get whats coming to them. Economical Darwinism.

 

[Strazdas]

Its Foxconn. they have been doing this and were called on this at least 3 times in the past. its really nothing new about FoxConn, whats interesting is why some companeis risk a PR disaster by using them.

I don't even think it went that far. More like 'we knew it was happening, but now we have to pretend we care until it falls out of the spotlight, and then it's business as usual.'

Well, that worked for apple when their iphones were manufacted at FoxConn by forced student labor.

I'd figure they'd have developed some form of independent thought (at that age) enough to say 'fuck this shit' and leave and if they're too spineless and/or stupid to do otherwise then they get whats coming to them. Economical Darwinism.

You have to realized that in China if they said "fuck this shit" They have just condemned themselves to ENTIRE LIFE of hard labour if they want to ever get paid anything. they woudl be thrown out of their studies and noone woudl ever allow them in again. its a loss situation either way. so they chose to do hard labour for couple years vs hard labour thier entire life.

Of course it's alright if Sony uses forced student labor to make their consoles. I bet if Microsoft did this, they'd be crucified.

If you read the article to the end you would have known that Xbox components are also assembled at FoxConn.

 

[Syzygy23]

Is there any electric device that isn't made by forced Chinese labor though?

They have entire polluted wastelands over there where people recycle cell phones and laptops and whatnot. To the detriment of their own health.

It's the uncomfortable truth behind practically all our entertainment. But what can we do about it?

Robotic workforce, that's what. However, that would also put the factory workers out of their jobs, as meager paying as it is.

 

[schrodinger]

Jesus tap-dancing christ, i thought that horrible factory was shutdown already. It's bad enough the labor laws over in china get exploited as shit, but when the same factory that almost had its workforce commit mass suicide it needs to be burnt to the ground.

 

[MammothBlade]

Unfortunately, this is how all mass produced electronics are made. People will continue to ignore it since otherwise it would cost too much.

Lol no. The consumer isn't seeing cost-savings from this. All the savings from exploitation go directly to the manufacturer and shareholders.

This is what happens when greed is God. The sooner we evolve past capitalism, the better.

I can't always source goods ethically. But now I know that they're using FOXCONN, I can't ignore it. I am not buying a next-gen console produced by wage-slavery. Will go second-hand.

 

[Lightknight]

The program lures students in by posing as an "internship" that offers them credits towards their degree, but upon arriving at the factory, the students are often assigned tasks that have no bearing whatsoever on their field of study.

Does it not offer them credits towards their degree? I'm not sure that "no bearing whatsoever on their field of study" impacts whether or not they get credits. The article has also since been updated to clarify that they may be getting paid for the work but the reporter isn't sure about the specifics.

A potentially "paid internship" that actually rewards the individual with degree credits is already better than several of the unpaid internships we have here in America where the only benefit is saying the word "internship" on your resume.

Is this requirement of the college not advertised? The article seems to say that it's part of the work and is publicized. That'd be like me complaining that my school required me to take x-number of credit hours so I'm effectively being "forced" to take that number of classes.

I will say that every electronic device we have all have at least a few components that were made in countries with incredibly questionable labor practices (aka, actual slavery). Pretty much every smart phone, every tablet, etc.

For example: http://www.free2work.org/2012/05/02/mapping-a-supply-chain-consumer-electronics/

The article for this thread sounds like just an internship that people sign up for. It's funny that the XBO is a small side comment at the bottom. "Oh, by the way, XBO's are also partly manufactured here too but we just put ps4 in the title because..."

"Update 10/10: I?ve removed a reference to the students not being paid, as it?s not entirely clear how they are compensated. I?ve also added some information about Foxconn offering per-student kickbacks to schools in previous cases like this."

Hmm, they can't even say that they aren't paid.

 

[keserak]

An odd tale to be sure. Not quite sure where I sit on the issue. People bring up child labor; which is bad/wrong, but what about adults (young adults mind you) being put to work. True it's something they're not being paid for so yeah it's rather mean thing to do.

Are people really so immoral that stolen labor is "debateable"?

 

[direkiller]

So, how do I know what electronics are manufactured at foxconn then?

YOu would have to avoid electronic equipment made by,
Acer, Dell, Motorola, Toshiba, Nintendo, Google, Vizio, Apple, HP, Nokia, Cisco, Microsoft, Sony, Amazon.

building a computer would not be that hard but I think you would be hard pressed to find a phone

 

[Someone Depressing]

Well, that... sucks. I won't be getting a PS4 (I still can't decide whether ot not I liked the Vita) but this is a tragedy. And it should be looked into. But other than that, what's there to say? Nothing. Other than it should be stopped, or the students should be paid a decent wage to compensate.

 

[J Tyran]

The article for this thread sounds like just an internship that people sign up for. It's funny that the XBO is a small side comment at the bottom. "Oh, by the way, XBO's are also partly manufactured here too but we just put ps4 in the title because..."

"Update 10/10: I?ve removed a reference to the students not being paid, as it?s not entirely clear how they are compensated. I?ve also added some information about Foxconn offering per-student kickbacks to schools in previous cases like this."

Hmm, they can't even say that they aren't paid.

As its Foxconn I would guess the students get room and board at least, Foxconn factories have on site accommodation and kitchens for staff. Its only barracks and mess halls though, similar to something you see in the military.

 

[The Apple BOOM]

This isn't capitalism's fault, this is corruption's fault. Something like this would happen whether the world was communist or capitalist. In both capitalism and communism it is illegal to tell someone one thing about their contract, and then disobey it the next day. The problem is no one feels like enforcing the law in China. Too many people are bought off, something that happens, again, in both Capitalism and Communism.

 

[Something Amyss]

Of course it's alright if Sony uses forced student labor to make their consoles. I bet if Microsoft did this, they'd be crucified.

Microsoft does do this.

This isn't a new story; Foxconn's been doing this for at least a couple of years. Microsoft is one of the big companies, and the Xbox 360 has been named specifically before. The article even mentions they produce ten percent of the Xbones. Where's the crucifixion?

Look, I'm not saying this is an okay practice. Part of what makes it so hard to fight is at this point is is borderline universal. But that's the thing. The responses are underwhelming because it's such a common practice. Foxconn is bloody megalithic. They're the sort of stuff you see cropping up in sci-fi dystopias.

I'm somewhere between baffled and amused when stories like this (often originating from India, where you can be sued for selling a haunted house) pop up to seemingly perplex people, yet they accept prayer circles for sick people, or conservative politicians raving about the 'devil's influence' without batting an eye.

Just to point out, in many (possibly most) states in the US, it's illegal to not inform someone that a house is haunted. So yeah, we really shouldn't feel superior to Indians or Chinese people who hire exorcists.

But hey, the poster you're quoting is British. Maybe they really are that much more sophisticated. Though I doubt it.

As much as this sucks,I think most of the blame can fall on China on this one. While we are partly responsible for supporting these practices by buying their products, ultimately its China's policies that allow for this to happen. Hell, even in America we have a similar but less horrible situation where people intern at places for long hours without getting paid doing menial work. The only difference is that we can quit any time without it having a huge impact on our educational goals. I would say boycott Foxconn products, but then you'd have to just abandon all forms of electronics. Its another one of those things all we can do is shake our heads at.

We must be doing something different, as our suicide rates are much lower.

Also, I think we can take more than just a little bit of the blame if we're cultivating a niche for Chinese labour.

Its Foxconn. they have been doing this and were called on this at least 3 times in the past. its really nothing new about FoxConn, whats interesting is why some companeis risk a PR disaster by using them.

The "everybody's doing it" argument seems to work. Not to mention it really hasn't hurt companies exposed in the past. We still have self-entitled, self-righteous hippies complaining about it, then they go back to playing Fruit ninja on their iPads.

Jesus tap-dancing christ, i thought that horrible factory was shutdown already.

One factory was briefly halted, IIRC, but you have to keep in mind this is not just a single factory. It isn't even isolated to one country. They have plants in most of Asia (including India) and even in South America.

Which does lead to the question: how do you battle that?

I can't always source goods ethically. But now I know that they're using FOXCONN, I can't ignore it. I am not buying a next-gen console produced by wage-slavery. Will go second-hand.

You're going to have to do more than just ditch consoles, then.

 

[MammothBlade]

You're going to have to do more than just ditch consoles, then.

I know, it's not practical to live a comfortable life whilst refusing to buy anything made from slave labour. But, consoles are a purely luxury good and one can do without them. So, it wouldn't hurt to avoid purchasing one brand-new on ethical grounds.

 

[Yan007]

Living in China at the moment, been working here for three years. This news is FAR from surprising. Please allow me,if you may, to add to it with some context:

- The primary reason why students go to Foxconn is because their school's principal is making money. The school leader has a deal with Foxconn: I provide you with free labor and you give me a few thousand rmbs per month. Using people this way, especially students, is NOT rare at all here and is almost expected. My employer is sometimes doing this to my Chinese coworkers and tried to do it to me a couple times, but in the end I can leave with no repercussion while they can't.

- The reason why the students there are complaining are not so much the long hours, but that the work is absolutely UNRELATED to their field of study. Imagine being an engineer and having to insert instruction manuals in plastic sleeves 11 hours a day or more with a 30 minutes break a day and having to do that for months. You may argue that this experience will be valuable to you in some way for future jobs and look alright on a resume, but trust me when I say that it does not. It won't even open you a door for a better position at Foxconn later in your career: you'll be replaced by the next batch of free labor.

- Why don't they leave? For sure, some must have left. Keep in mind though that the school leader would be losing face and money each time a student leaves so he has to punish them. To do so, they withhold their diplomas indefinitely and refuse to allow the students to graduate. Change university? This is China: you can't. If you were in position to change university to begin with, your parents would have bribed the school leader already so you don't have to work at the factory. There is also always the very real possibility that the school leader has friends in the police dept or knows thugs and they can come to your place to kick your ass and claim YOU assaulted THEM. China is a unfair country and every relationship here is a double-edge sword hanging over your head and nothing is ever safe or secure. The though of going against a single school leader is enough to make most students shit their pants at night.

- Another reason why they don't leave is that from early childhood they are told their reason for living is to make money, especially for their parents. Your value as a person is proportionally related to how much wealth you have or can project to have. This also extends to the rights you will have in society. Retirement plans here are a joke so parents depend on their children for income later in life. Imagine telling your parents that you failed to accomplish your only goal in life - getting a degree to secure money for them when they get old - because you felt abused by your working conditions at Foxconn. After three years here I learned that the most valuable thing to 99.9999% of the Chinese population is money - above ALL else. This is true for the school leader, the Foxconn manager, but also for the students' parents who probabaly told them to stfu already and get back to work, grab that degree and earn money asap!


EDIT: I also want to clarify the article: Students are not LURED with the promise of credits. THEY ARE TOLD TO GO ELSE THEY DON'T GET THEIR CREDITS ANYWAY.

 

[Strazdas]

Its Foxconn. they have been doing this and were called on this at least 3 times in the past. its really nothing new about FoxConn, whats interesting is why some companeis risk a PR disaster by using them.

The "everybody's doing it" argument seems to work. Not to mention it really hasn't hurt companies exposed in the past. We still have self-entitled, self-righteous hippies complaining about it, then they go back to playing Fruit ninja on their iPads.

Yeah, i guess im overestimating actual PR impact this has. after all pepoepl tend ot think that its china, far away, so doesnt matter.

So, how do I know what electronics are manufactured at foxconn then?

YOu would have to avoid electronic equipment made by,
Acer, Dell, Motorola, Toshiba, Nintendo, Google, Vizio, Apple, HP, Nokia, Cisco, Microsoft, Sony, Amazon.

building a computer would not be that hard but I think you would be hard pressed to find a phone

Well i already avoid motorola, nintendo, apple, hp, nokia and where i can microsoft. amazon is non-existant here and vizio is a brand of glasses (i guess thats wrong). To be honest i cna always go back to my still fully functional siemens phone if it comes to that, but currently i dio use a huawei, which i guess falls under google. as for the rest of electronics its siemens, electrlux and LG here, so ive been doing fine avoiding them.
also you can always go for a samsung phone, its not as good granted but its not slave labour. Or HTCs, or are they also manufactured there?

 

[Lightknight]

The article for this thread sounds like just an internship that people sign up for. It's funny that the XBO is a small side comment at the bottom. "Oh, by the way, XBO's are also partly manufactured here too but we just put ps4 in the title because..."

"Update 10/10: I?ve removed a reference to the students not being paid, as it?s not entirely clear how they are compensated. I?ve also added some information about Foxconn offering per-student kickbacks to schools in previous cases like this."

Hmm, they can't even say that they aren't paid.

As its Foxconn I would guess the students get room and board at least, Foxconn factories have on site accommodation and kitchens for staff. Its only barracks and mess halls though, similar to something you see in the military.

Ah, wow. I'd have liked that opportunity in college.

 

[Lightknight]

Of course it's alright if Sony uses forced student labor to make their consoles. I bet if Microsoft did this, they'd be crucified.

Microsoft does do this.

This isn't a new story; Foxconn's been doing this for at least a couple of years. Microsoft is one of the big companies, and the Xbox 360 has been named specifically before. The article even mentions they produce ten percent of the Xbones. Where's the crucifixion?

Look, I'm not saying this is an okay practice. Part of what makes it so hard to fight is at this point is is borderline universal. But that's the thing. The responses are underwhelming because it's such a common practice. Foxconn is bloody megalithic. They're the sort of stuff you see cropping up in sci-fi dystopias.

Not only does Microsoft do this, but 10% of the XBO is being made IN THE SAME FACTORY.

For some reason, the original article just said PS4. Not sure why it didn't mention both.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Sigh, well... we all pay a heavy price for our entertainment. Just think the next time you praise Sony for it being "better" than Microsoft, their hands are just as dirty in how they manufacture things.
And the "everybody does it" attitude doesn't make it right, just means that no company deserves to get a free pass, and no company is better than the other.
Deplorable conditions, deplorable practices, but hey we get cheaper consoles because of it, right?