Freedom in games

[Jepix]

What is freedom to you?
I think that freedom is far more complicatde than the developers whants us to believe.
As an example, I always think of the Halo and the Cry-games as very free games. Hold the flames let me explain!
In these games, the story and "levels" may be linear, but the main point is how you solve problems (often, kill enemies) in the game. Lets see a typicall halo combat scenario: You can either approach the speeding enemies by stealing one of their vehicles and gun the down, or you could try to hide behind cover and 'nade them, or maybe throw a bubble and... You get the deal

My point: Freedom to me is when you get a given amount of rules that take effect in a world, and a given amount of tools that go under said rules, and you can solve whatever problems that come in your way by aplying your own logic to the rules 'n tools, without the game saying what you should do.

Freedom is NOT a large world. That wasn't even cool back in the Arena days.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Different kinds of freedom.

The Capital Wasteland gives freedom of exploration in its non linearity.

It gives you freedom of actions with no law system.

Fable 2 gives you the freedom to get fat.

 

[haruvister]

I understand what you're saying, Jepix. You can be given all the space in the world to roam, but that's only a facsimile of freedom. With this in mind, I think Left 4 Dead provides a lot of freedom. It's freedom of choice. You're not shackled by nonsensical or contradictory game mechanics. Four scenarios that each take an hour max to finish with a handful of basic weapons - and yet I'm still playing now after a day one purchase. So many ways to approach a given problem; so many ways to react.

 

[Jepix]

Different kinds of freedom.

The Capital Wasteland gives freedom of exploration in its non linearity.

It gives you freedom of actions with no law system.

Fable 2 gives you the freedom to get fat.

True, but it's not the large world in Fallout that makes it free, It's rather how they populated the large world.
Fable is the worst of examples. I became fat because I couldn't kill kids.

I understand what you're saying, Jepix. You can be given all the space in the world to roam, but that's only a facsimile of freedom. With this in mind, I think Left 4 Dead provides a lot of freedom. It's freedom of choice. You're not shackled by nonsensical or contradictory game mechanics. Four scenarios that each take an hour max to finish with a handful of basic weapons - and yet I'm still playing now after a day one purchase. So many ways to approach a given problem; so many ways to react.

Exactly! Lately, I have tried to look with lantern after games that work like this, but it is hard. It struck me that this is the reason that I love RE4 so much.

 

[Irridium]

This is why I still play the first Far Cry and Halo 3. I see how many ways I can beat any givin scenario

I get your point OP

Fable 2 gives you the freedom to get fat.

Actually, to my knowledge Fable 2 and Fable are the only games that lets you get fat.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think that there is a fat protagonist in any game.
And bulging with muscles doesn't count.

 

[Derpus von Herpus]

Just like Jepix, I prefer games where there is a goal that I am obviously intended to reach, but how I reach that goal is up to me. Stealthy sneaking mission, balls-to-the-wall both-guns-blazing banzai charge, grenade "artillery", sniping mission... I love that.

That said, I don't really like games that are too open-ended. As in, "figure out for yourself what to do next".

 

[Saskwach]

Thank you, Jepix, for posting a thread somewhat similar to an idea I was planning to threadify soon. No really! I sorta-wanted-sorta-din't-want to post it. Now that conundrum is solved.

That said, I don't really like games that are too open-ended. As in, "figure out for yourself what to do next".

Ditto. Whenever the answer to "But what do you actually do in the game?" is answered by "Anything!" I'm suddenly very bored. Any game that doesn't at least give you a nudge doesn't interest me.

 

[Jepix]

Thanks, I guess. Cthulhu Ftaghn

Thank you, Jepix, for posting a thread somewhat similar to an idea I was planning to threadify soon. No really! I sorta-wanted-sorta-din't-want to post it. Now that conundrum is solved.

That said, I don't really like games that are too open-ended. As in, "figure out for yourself what to do next".

Ditto. Whenever the answer to "But what do you actually do in the game?" is answered by "Anything!" I'm suddenly very bored. Any game that doesn't at least give you a nudge doesn't interest me.

Where do you people find these games?

 

[More Fun To Compute]

This reminds me of the difference between free beer and free speech. Free beer is very nice but free speech is worth fighting for.

If a game has a big map you can explore every inch of, 1000 different attack combos and 500 funny emote animations then it is giving you lots of free beer type freedom. They expect to be paid for it, but hey. If a game gives you a free choice to do one thing that changes the game world and the game world remembers then the game has free speech type freedom.

 

[WrongSprite]

This is why I still play the first Far Cry and Halo 3. I see how many ways I can beat any givin scenario

I get your point OP

Fable 2 gives you the freedom to get fat.

Actually, to my knowledge Fable 2 and Fable are the only games that lets you get fat.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think that there is a fat protagonist in any game.
And bulging with muscles doesn't count.

GTA san andreas. I was a fat mofo.

 

[Cpt_Oblivious]

I want to be able to blow doros open with grenades instead of having to find the red key. That'd be freedom.

And for Free RPGs I want to be able to say "Fuck saving the world, I'm gonna be a carrot farmer!". That'd be freedom.

 

[Cuniculus]

Listen, true freedom from a game is impossible, if you want a halfway decent game. Sure, they could make a world where you could kill ANYONE at ANY time... except for people who give you missions, because they push the story along. Without them, there would be no point in playing. If they did make a game where you could do anything at any time, it would just be a mindless game, and would get boring fairly quickly.

I like as much freedom as I can get in a game, but I realize it has limits.

 

[Time Travelling Toaster]

I would love a game without limitations, where you can do anything like

I want to be able to say "Fuck saving the world, I'm gonna be a carrot farmer!".

although it would get hectic eventually >.>

 

[Baby Tea]

I hear what you're saying, and I agree for the most part.

Oblivion was one of those games for me, since you could be stealthy, use magic, use big weapons, or a combination of all three. Plus the large world let you explore all over the place, offering plenty to see and do.

But the dialog was limiting. I never felt like I was a person, just an avatar.

Now, Baldur's Gate...THERE is a game that was almost the epitome of freedom for me. Tons of NPCs to join your party, a big world to see and explore, plenty of quests to do, and the dialog! Dialog that let you have a bit of a personality! The freedom to be someone, rather than a 'character' or 'avatar'.

 

[Casual Shinji]

A game needs rules in order to be FUN. Ultimate freedom in a game is just as boring as it would be in real life. A GOOD game is all about CHEATING the player in experiencing something. SMOKE and MIRRORS are what games are all about

 

[Cpt_Oblivious]

I would love a game without limitations, where you can do anything like

I want to be able to say "Fuck saving the world, I'm gonna be a carrot farmer!".

although it would get hectic eventually >.>

You'd probably end up saving the world eventually. But only when it began to threaten the carrots.

 

[Wadders]

I want to be able to blow doros open with grenades instead of having to find the red key. That'd be freedom.

Rainbow 6 Vegas 2 lets you blow doors open with grenades. And C4. And Breach Charges. And it lets you blow their locks out with shotguns. And you can order your AI team to do all of the above

In fact I think the Devs had some kind of anti-door sentiments, you can kill them in more ways than you can kill the enemy...

 

[WrongSprite]

I want to be able to blow doros open with grenades instead of having to find the red key. That'd be freedom.

And for Free RPGs I want to be able to say "Fuck saving the world, I'm gonna be a carrot farmer!". That'd be freedom.

Like a mix of Morrowind and Harvest moon? XD That'd be awesome.

 

[Time Travelling Toaster]

You'd probably end up saving the world eventually. But only when it began to threaten the carrots.

A giant Bugs Bunny taking over the world perhaps ?

 

[More Fun To Compute]

And for Free RPGs I want to be able to say "Fuck saving the world, I'm gonna be a carrot farmer!". That'd be freedom.

I have played a farm management mod for Morrowind.