A big part of a relationship is sexual attraction. A big part. Like, monumentally fucking huge. If she doesn't find you attractive, it's not going to end well for anyone. Don't try and guilt a girl into a relationship, just man up and move on.
Friends Zone (AKA why aren't we doing this?)
- Thread starter barbzilla
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My vote...move on, stop hanging out with her and just find someone else. If you do find someone else maybe you can be friends with her again, but in the meantime it'll just drive you crazy so find a way to get away from her.
I dont mean by this that any girl who says no to you is a horribly evil human being. I just support taking care of yourself.
Or if you want to be a dick (which is always fun) you could always just have a conversation like this
Girl: i cant date you
Guy: why not?
Girl: because it would ruin our friendship
Guy: it's too late, we cant be friends anymore
Girl: why not asshole?
Guy: because i dont want to bend my friends over a table and fuck them silly
Girl: *slap*
Guy: I'm also not friends with people who hit me
I dont mean by this that any girl who says no to you is a horribly evil human being. I just support taking care of yourself.
Or if you want to be a dick (which is always fun) you could always just have a conversation like this
Girl: i cant date you
Guy: why not?
Girl: because it would ruin our friendship
Guy: it's too late, we cant be friends anymore
Girl: why not asshole?
Guy: because i dont want to bend my friends over a table and fuck them silly
Girl: *slap*
Guy: I'm also not friends with people who hit me
Why would you want to date a friend? Where is the feeling of meeting someone new and interesting? I tried dating a girl I was friends with, it ended up boring as hell because we had nothing new to talk about. I actually see there to be a good side to getting friend zoned: if it turns out she has a friend you're interested in, you could have her put in a good word for you.
That being said, never quite got why women are so fuckin' capricious.
That being said, never quite got why women are so fuckin' capricious.
ST: Every "Just Friends" line i have recieved, without fail (and i fucking promise, without fail) has started with "You're really sweet, but..." (Evidently, not sweet enough, i guess). I've heard this line many times after asking girls out.
/CMD_CynicismActive_False
OT: The truth seems to be that Girls are attracted jerks or... not very nice guys, perhaps because they are, as a rule, more confident and exciting. The saying "Treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen" has endured for a while, and there has to be a reason for that. If you are in the "FZ" then its because the girl probably relies on you to be the shoulder to cry on when the BF acts like too much of a jerk. Thats my experience of it.
The above only really applies to highschool/Secondary school and Young adulthood i guess.
At the end of the day, what can you do but keep trying?
PS: Sorry for venting a little...
/CMD_CynicismActive_False
OT: The truth seems to be that Girls are attracted jerks or... not very nice guys, perhaps because they are, as a rule, more confident and exciting. The saying "Treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen" has endured for a while, and there has to be a reason for that. If you are in the "FZ" then its because the girl probably relies on you to be the shoulder to cry on when the BF acts like too much of a jerk. Thats my experience of it.
The above only really applies to highschool/Secondary school and Young adulthood i guess.
At the end of the day, what can you do but keep trying?
PS: Sorry for venting a little...
Oh boy...man. I've been in a very similar situation to this and it took me a long time to get over it. If she hates you now I would strongly recommend not apologizing to her for anything and finding somebody new; just stay away from her. I wont go into details, but I was with a girl like that and when she ended up hating me I was heartbroken, I ended up apologizing for all the bullshit that she was spouting, we started hanging out again and she broke my heart even worse a few months later (followed by even more fucked up shit happening in my life). I'm very sorry that this happened to you and that she abandoned you in such a way. That kind of pain can be very difficult to endure, but believe me, embrace it, and dont go back to her.rammst13n said:
Perhaps you already get all this that I'm suggesting and dont really have any intentions of doing so. Perhaps it's a more complicated situation than I know. I hope, however, that what I am saying may help you to avoid a truly negative and sad situation. Good luck buddy
I was going to write out this whole long schpiel about how it's not her fault you didn't tell her your feelings, that she "put you there" because you are a friend to her, not a romantic interest, likely due to your beating around the bush instead of being the confident, straightforward man that women tend to like. Then I found it had already been said, and I don't need to do any of that.InterAirplay said:
So, excellent post my friend. We seem to be of like minds.
I will add that, while Watcher has some good points, you don't have to be so "Machiavellian" about it (to borrow InterAirplay's term). You don't have to be the dick, but you can't try to be the 'perfect man for her' either. Be her friend, but not her "perfect guy", because that's stupid, as has been said.Watcheroftrends said:
My strategy for keeping out of what you call the "friends zone" is to be confident, and be myself (as cliche as that might sound). Be there if she needs someone, but don't cater to her every need. When she's being stupid, inform her of such, occasionally bluntly. Don't go fetch her a spoon when she can do it herself, don't refill her water cup every time it's empty, don't answer to her every call like a slave boy. If you do get her a spoon, don't be subservient about it. Act like it was a legitimate favor for her, and you did it because you felt like you could spare the time. If you buy her something, we'll say lunch, act like you're doing it because you have money and you feel like being nice.
Notice the "you feel like"s; this isn't about you being nice to her because it would make her happy, it's about you being nice because, again, you feel like it. There's a subtle difference there, but it's most certainly there and it makes all the difference. One is all about her, the other is about you. In one, you're being nice to her because you want her to be happy and see you as 'the perfect guy'. This is the typical "nice guy" that is a bad thing. The other, you're being nice because it's who you are, not just to her, but to everyone, and because you're a legitimate nice guy.
Combine that with the confidence of a man that knows who he is and what he wants, occasionally to the point of being cocky. Throw in a liberal amount of good-natured, friendly teasing, not to the point where it annoys her but to the point where she knows you have a sense of humor (it helps to make fun of yourself, again in a confident, borderline-cocky sort of way, when you do something stupid or are talking about a quirky part of yourself), and master the 'half-grin'.
Mix them all together, form them in to a patty, toss it on the grill and sear until done. Suggested serving is medium-rare over an onion bun with a full onion ring, A1 steak sauce and jalapenos. Enjoy with a cold 1554 Enlightened Black Ale. [http://www.newbelgium.com/beer/detail.aspx?id=5ac72c92-fd87-4ec7-858d-3380c8d465d8]
For those of you reading this in a search for actual relationship advice, do keep in mind that there's a thin line between 'cool' and 'creepy'. Don't go changing who you are just because you read something like this. A good dose of confidence is always a good thing, but the important thing is to be confident within the boundaries of who you are. Don't go being something you're not on either side of the spectrum, because that rarely works.
Umm...wrong. I dated a girl who I could play games with and could chill with (sometimes there's girly drama crap) and the only reason we broke up is cuz I moved. and she definitely had a vagina. A girlfriend who you can do things with is important in my eyes. In fact, I find it mildly offensive and sexist that you think that any girl who is chill, likes video games and is emotionally stable is ill-equipped for hetero sex and relationships.Loner Jo Jo said:
Hi. Woman here to translate.barbzilla said:
Generally speaking, if a woman says "I'd like to date a nice guy LIKE you" but "I don't want to ruin our friendship" that usually means the following:
"I'd like to date someone who acts nice like you, but is hot like the guy who just broke my heart."
The "friend zone" is a polite way for the woman in question to say she doesn't find a guy attractive.
Sorry. Sad, but true. Most women I know, if they find a friend attractive have no problem risking the friendship to date them. If they don't find him attractive, though, they just say "I want to be friends". Which IS TRUE... because you aren't attractive to that particular woman.
Not to say you aren't attractive to OTHER women. I don't know - I haven't seen a photo of you.
Yup, because only pretending to be nice to a girl for the sole reason that you hope she'll take pity on you and let you get into her pants one day shows you're such a great person.
Do you ever think that maybe acting like a friend and nothing more makes girls think you're just being a friend and don't want anything more? I mean, geez, how dare they not realise you're just trying to manipulate them or guilt them into wanting to sleep with you.
Do you ever think that maybe acting like a friend and nothing more makes girls think you're just being a friend and don't want anything more? I mean, geez, how dare they not realise you're just trying to manipulate them or guilt them into wanting to sleep with you.
^^ Everything this guy says is good and they should feel good.InterAirplay said:
Airplay, unfortunately, your advice, while sage doesn't work. I have made far too many mistakes trying to woo women, and have come to realize that I have nothing to offer them. In addition, I've gotten very tired of them complaining about everything. I've yet to have a first date last more than 15 minutes. I'd do just a lunch date but even offering to paying for their food is too much commitment for women. I can't go on a walk because its too dirty or too hot. I can't hang out at my apartment because women complain its too clean. I can't show them funny videos on the computer, because 'watching videos on the internet is stupid and boring.'InterAirplay said:
On the other hand, what have I to offer? I'm overweight, not much of job as I'm going back for my BS degree, I lost my car in the economy crash and now ride the bus everywhere. No house, no car, no job, and not physically attractive, what's to be confident about. The things I care about are eclectic and apparently don't attract women, so why bother?
90% true, there are often other reasons they don't want to date you, the short of the story is "They don't want to date you". I am sure most people reading this post are assuming that I am the one stuck in the friends zone, actually my frustration stems from a friend who is stuck there. I actually enjoy the friends zone, mostly because even if she doesn't want to date me I have a good (hopefully) friend out of the mix (besides hot chicks tend to have hot friends as well).Bara_no_Hime said:
Actually, I might go as low as 75% true, but then, that's why I said generally.barbzilla said:
Of course, "attractive" is a very unspecific thing. People are attracted to strange stuff, often without realizing it.
But yeah, the point being that there's some reason that the friend in question is not considered potential mate aside from the actual reason given (ie friendship).
Plus, some people actually don't see their potential sexual partners as friends. I totally don't get that, and I've never seen it work, but that's probably 10% of cases right there.
Finally, are women the most boring people on the planet or does it just seem like all they want to do is sit in front of the tv and watch crap?
I've found that the sexes really aren't that different on this issue, or at least I'm not different than most girls on this issue. If a girl follows me around, kisses my ass, blames shit I did that was stupid on some bad pussy and tries to get me to fuck her without ever asking me out, I'm already bored and I'm probably going to be a little freaked out if it keeps up for awhile.
That's not to say I've never been rejected, far from it, I've seen at least one girl I thought was the woman of my life hook up with a series of fuck-ups that I wouldn't have hired pro bono to be my personal ass-scratchers. I'm not saying it doesn't hurt, I'm saying that people are who they are, and if someone 1) isn't attracted to you and 2) doesn't object to using you, that's neither a friend nor someone you want to fuck, and it's certainly not someone that belongs on a pedestal for you to worship while she fucks someone because of their car.
Truth be told, if you're friends with someone because you want to fuck them and they don't have any moral objection to using you, then you need to reevaluate what you refer to as the "friend zone," because neither of you is really what you'd call a "friend." If you're friends because you really like her and she likes you as a friend, then you can either handle that or you'd better show a side she's never seen before because time won't make you sexier. And if it seems like she's using you even when she seems like she's so sweet and wonderful, she's using you.
That's not to say I've never been rejected, far from it, I've seen at least one girl I thought was the woman of my life hook up with a series of fuck-ups that I wouldn't have hired pro bono to be my personal ass-scratchers. I'm not saying it doesn't hurt, I'm saying that people are who they are, and if someone 1) isn't attracted to you and 2) doesn't object to using you, that's neither a friend nor someone you want to fuck, and it's certainly not someone that belongs on a pedestal for you to worship while she fucks someone because of their car.
Truth be told, if you're friends with someone because you want to fuck them and they don't have any moral objection to using you, then you need to reevaluate what you refer to as the "friend zone," because neither of you is really what you'd call a "friend." If you're friends because you really like her and she likes you as a friend, then you can either handle that or you'd better show a side she's never seen before because time won't make you sexier. And if it seems like she's using you even when she seems like she's so sweet and wonderful, she's using you.
Just because all of that can and is typically done within the realm of being yourself. I didn't say "act like a cool, dickheaded preppy jock to get chicks", I said "be yourself, and if you're going to do _____, do it for you, not because you're trying to get her to like you through servitude". Or at least that's how I tried to phrase it. I can see where the confusion might crop up though.InterAirplay said:
Ok I'm not going to read the whole entire thread here but, I'm female and I had a friend in the friend zone (he really had a thing for me) and before you all yell out 'evviill ***** give him a chance!!'
Ok for those of you that have read through this whole post, thankyou! I have one final point to make though, do not linger on to the friend zone with a woman you have feelings with it will make it worse, showing tenacity and patience can pay off with many things, this is not one of them. The fact that this guy still thought that if he played his cards right that he could still be with me even after 2 years of not talking to him, even after I was already taken and engaged? seriously? I'm not trying to be cruel and crush your dreams but there is a time to give up and move on, yes you can still be friends with her, yes you can be nice to her but don't do it for the wrong reasons of thinking 'she will think I'm a nice guy!' Do it because you're her friend and she trusts you, there is no worse feeling than that trust being betrayed and that friendship being destroyed.
Ok I'm raising my fire proof wall for all the flame coming my way after posting this.
I'm trying not to be mean here but think of their feelings, if you truly care about their happiness you will let them make their own decisions and be with who they want to be with, if you're not the right person, then accept that and move on.
Also I realize this is badly written and yes the first part is quite juvenile but that's who I was back then
I'm going to say this guy was a very good friend for the last 3 years of high school he did so much for me and supported me so well when I went through horrible times (eg. my childhood friend running from home to the other side of the country with some 30 year old man, never heard from her again and assumed she had been raped and murdered. But that's another story). This whole time I was pretty oblivious being the teenager I was, although he wasn't so direct with his feelings he never really told me how he felt, I just thought this was how friends were meant to be, always there for each other and inseparable. Shit hit the fan when our year 12 formal (prom whatever american equivalent is) came up, everyone had dates, I refused to have a date at the time because I didn't want my memories to be ruined by including someone I know I wouldn't be with in a few years time. So it comes around and everyone's dancing I get asked by another male friend to dance, me being horrible at dancing start dancing and go 'oh no! I can't dance with you! This is bad!' (whatever I said you get the gist), friend zone man comes up and pulls me off this guy and starts trying to dance with me (trying to be a white knight obviously). I pull away instantly and sit down, making my feelings quite obvious with what he did. After school finished I used to hang out with high school friends quite a lot, he started getting more direct and insanely jealous of my other male friends (who are just friends), saying untrue things about them and being just annoying every time I said that I wanted to hang out with a bunch of them. I eventually stopped talking to him for about 2 years, deciding that his refusal to give up on me was ruining what a awesome friendship before. and to be honest I felt betrayed thinking every time that he was there for me and being supportive and being such a good mate he was just thinking 'yes! she's gotta like me for doing this!' I felt horrible like I didn't know this person.
about two years go by before I talk to him, in that time I get into a very serious relationship(which I'm still in I might add), my boyfriend convinces me to talk to him because after all he was my best friend and he wanted to meet him. So I get in contact with him have a awkward sorry conversation he acts all cool with it and everything is good I decide to invite him to a big weekly dnd session with all my friends, since he used to mention it every now and then and how he wanted to check it out (yes quite nerdy hurr durr)he swears at my friends and plain ol' insults them and just generally rude in everything he says. I regretted for getting him involved in the dnd campaign at that point, I later lied saying that it was cancelled so not to hurt his feelings, I would go out and hang out with him at the shops and it would be quite fun walking around chatting it felt like we had our friendship right back on track ^^. After awhile I got engaged he didn't congratulate me like all my other friends and family just stayed quiet, during this time we also had some major floods come through my area (yes quite familiar hurp derp) I posted a message on my facebook telling my family overseas not to worry because we weren't affected, saying something along the lines of our river not being connected to the ones causing the floods. he replied in the message saying 'yeah river are whores like that' I posted a message privately to him asking him not to use language like that because my family (including grandparents would read it) he didn't reply to it. I see him about 2 months later at the local shops he went to hug me as a hello but instead ended up lingering a bit too much longer and it felt like he was embracing me, I flipped out at this point, I push and away and said 'what the hell!? I'm engaged, I'm taken! You can't act like this towards me there was nothing between us and there never will be I don't have feelings for you, we had a awesome friendship until you ruined it, even after 2 years you're still not over me, Just leave me alone and stay out of my life. (something along those lines) I saw a private message on facebook later asking me why I was avoiding him and why I seemed to be mad at him.
I decide to invite him to a big weekly dnd session with all my friends, since he used to mention it every now and then and how he wanted to check it out (yes quite nerdy hurr durr)he swears at my friends and plain ol' insults them and just generally rude in everything he says. I regretted for getting him involved in the dnd campaign at that point, I later lied saying that it was cancelled so not to hurt his feelings, I would go out and hang out with him at the shops and it would be quite fun walking around chatting it felt like we had our friendship right back on track ^^. After awhile I got engaged he didn't congratulate me like all my other friends and family just stayed quiet, during this time we also had some major floods come through my area (yes quite familiar hurp derp) I posted a message on my facebook telling my family overseas not to worry because we weren't affected, saying something along the lines of our river not being connected to the ones causing the floods. he replied in the message saying 'yeah river are whores like that' I posted a message privately to him asking him not to use language like that because my family (including grandparents would read it) he didn't reply to it. I see him about 2 months later at the local shops he went to hug me as a hello but instead ended up lingering a bit too much longer and it felt like he was embracing me, I flipped out at this point, I push and away and said 'what the hell!? I'm engaged, I'm taken! You can't act like this towards me there was nothing between us and there never will be I don't have feelings for you, we had a awesome friendship until you ruined it, even after 2 years you're still not over me, Just leave me alone and stay out of my life. (something along those lines) I saw a private message on facebook later asking me why I was avoiding him and why I seemed to be mad at him.Ok for those of you that have read through this whole post, thankyou! I have one final point to make though, do not linger on to the friend zone with a woman you have feelings with it will make it worse, showing tenacity and patience can pay off with many things, this is not one of them. The fact that this guy still thought that if he played his cards right that he could still be with me even after 2 years of not talking to him, even after I was already taken and engaged? seriously? I'm not trying to be cruel and crush your dreams but there is a time to give up and move on, yes you can still be friends with her, yes you can be nice to her but don't do it for the wrong reasons of thinking 'she will think I'm a nice guy!' Do it because you're her friend and she trusts you, there is no worse feeling than that trust being betrayed and that friendship being destroyed.
Ok I'm raising my fire proof wall for all the flame coming my way after posting this.
I'm trying not to be mean here but think of their feelings, if you truly care about their happiness you will let them make their own decisions and be with who they want to be with, if you're not the right person, then accept that and move on.
Also I realize this is badly written and yes the first part is quite juvenile but that's who I was back then
That wasn't what I was saying at all. Who is "equipped" for a relationship is totally based upon the individual's place in life at that moment. All I'm saying is that once a guy sees a girl as a "bro" or just someone to hang out with, they might as well be genderless. I was merely reversing the argument that the guy who is supportive and caring is denied a relationship by a woman despite the fact that he would make an attentive lover. It's the same idea.cuppajoe1687 said:
And obviously, I realize that this doesn't happen in EVERY case, but I've seen it happen enough to know that it can happen. It's happened to me before, but yet my last boyfriend loved the fact that he could talk to me about "guy stuff" like games. Sure, I admit, I was exaggerating, but I was also trying to prove a point that the "friend zone" phenomena isn't something that only guys suffer from.
Truth.Watcheroftrends said:
It's the basic idea that people generally want what they subconsciously know they cannot have. You make it obvious that you want them (aka, being the nice guy) and you'll be friend zoned pretty hard. The less you try, the more they want you. The biggest problem is knowing how long to appear uninterested. Wait too long, and they may give up the chase. Not long enough, you may come off as needy and an unfit mate. The more woman that appear to be interested in you, the more desirable you become. It's really quiet primitive if you think about it.