Friends Zone (AKA why aren't we doing this?)

[conflictofinterests]

Protip: Most women decide for themselves whether or not you're a viable dating option in the first five minutes of actively observing you. If you don't make your intentions known during that window of time, you are likely going to be relegated to the friend zone.

However, if you were not aware of these first five minutes of observation, you probably have a second chance in the first five minutes of conversation. Use them wisely to communicate your interest and availability. She may not be interested at first, or she may not be interested ever, but afterwards you have to let the idea of "you" as a viable dating option sink in.

In the meantime, do whatever, you know? Your life doesn't revolve around her. You just fucking met!

 

[MSTJedi]

I dated a friend ._.

Still am. And it's super!

Then you were most likely never in "the friend zone". You were just getting to know each other and eventually, the feelings manifested.

this really nice chick, we met one day and we just talked for like 3 hours, then a month later for 3 more hours and suddenly she was my girlfriend, 6 days later im single again, because she has 'too much on her mind'. one week later she has someone else, the scars heal so slowly

Beware anyone who wants to become exclusive after that short of an exposure. Yes, there was a month between, but the actual exposure to each other was only 6 hours. Also, if you meet a girl who has been engaged about 5 times (especially if she's in her early 20s or younger), run the frak away. This girl likes the idea of love, but doesn't know that real love involves actual commitment and loyalty and that those warm fuzzies of new love don't last forever. Better things come along, like trust and interdependence, but the butterflies don't last forever.

As for the friend zone in general, if you find yourself there, give it up. What the girl means by wanting to find someone like you is that she wants to find someone like you, who will understand her and support her, but someone like that who she is *attracted to*. Attraction, often referred to as "chemistry", is an unexplainable thing. There's no logic to it and you can't make it happen. It can change over time, sure (my tastes have changed many times over the years), but there is no way by being more there for her or more understanding you will get that chemistry to change.

 

[Kenko]

My favorite? (Keep in mind I usually say this after I have tried repeatedly with the girl I'm talking to)

"I'm never going to find a girlfriend."
"That's not true. You're nice, kind, you have a good head on your shoulders, you listen. You have lots of redeeming features."
"And yet..."
The girl usually stops talking after that because she'll catch herself on what she's about to say: "You're not my type." And no, that hasn't been from one girl. I get that from nearly every girl I ever ask out just for lunch.

Yeah that fuckin line is evil as it translates into "I like you, but im just gonna make up some nice things about you to sweeten the part where I reject you." Next time I hear that, that ***** has whatever beverage im holding coming her way. Since I don't drink coffee, enjoy the tea *****!

Good lord that's a funny image - thank you good sir for almost making me spit MY tea out my nose!

(Now, I'm not saying I would do the same to a person I felt that way about - but it would be funny to see!)

If women can do it, so can we! Who'se with me?! SO SAY WE ALL!

 

[CaptainREBell]

I dated a friend, and it did not end well.
Typical story really, very similar to one mentioned in 1st post...went out with someone who was a dickhead, guy friend was there the whole time. Dickhead dumps me, guy friend tries to help me recover. We date for 10 months before we leave for university.
It was the happiest he'd been, but I'd been MISERABLE. He didn't know how to deal with girls, and so insulted me without realising it (ie "heavy" and "very untoned") and never wanted to go on dates. I stuck with him because he was a nice guy, and all our friends loved us together. It lasted too long, and I'd lost my sense of self-worth.
Then I was single! And free! I was an attractive young woman who had a power level over 9000! And after discovering that guys really liked me, I started dating an awesome guy who was lovely and sweet and thought the world of me.
Now I have another guy friend who likes me, but isn't going to make a move until I'm single again. Will it work out? Nope. Not because he's my friend, but because he has no qualities I would want in a boyfriend. Sometimes, when girls say 'I don't want to ruin the friendship', they're covering up a lot more harmful reasons for rejecting a guy.
Girls liking jerks is very much a teenage/young adult phase, but the nice guy will rise again, and kick some gentlemenly butt!

 

[barbzilla]

Protip: Most women decide for themselves whether or not you're a viable dating option in the first five minutes of actively observing you. If you don't make your intentions known during that window of time, you are likely going to be relegated to the friend zone.

However, if you were not aware of these first five minutes of observation, you probably have a second chance in the first five minutes of conversation. Use them wisely to communicate your interest and availability. She may not be interested at first, or she may not be interested ever, but afterwards you have to let the idea of "you" as a viable dating option sink in.

In the meantime, do whatever, you know? Your life doesn't revolve around her. You just fucking met!

It is not always true thought that women make that decision in the first 5 minutes. This time frame is for the initial categorization. It is also not fair to imply that women are the only ones who do this. I myself have a 1 day time frame. If I don't find you "dating" material in that first day I slide you over to the friends slot. If you come up to me and profess your love to me and I am not interested I will tell you so. I am not going to stop being friends with you (but I will give you some space while you deal with any emotional issues this causes), and if things change (and they sometimes do) I will let you know.

Now if you are approaching a woman for the first time with the intent to date, then yes you have a small window of time to make your intentions known and have her consider you romantically. After this point you have a bit of time to convince her of why she should date you (I feel I am wording this poorly and I am about to get some more hate) and spend that time building a bit of mystery yet giving her enough information to make a real decision. You have to be yourself if you want the relationship to go anywhere though, otherwise it is a gamble on how your personalities mesh.

Final point being get on with your life, very valid information. Don't stop living your life because you are talking to a woman.

 

[barbzilla]

I dated a friend, and it did not end well.
Typical story really, very similar to one mentioned in 1st post...went out with someone who was a dickhead, guy friend was there the whole time. Dickhead dumps me, guy friend tries to help me recover. We date for 10 months before we leave for university.
It was the happiest he'd been, but I'd been MISERABLE. He didn't know how to deal with girls, and so insulted me without realising it (ie "heavy" and "very untoned") and never wanted to go on dates. I stuck with him because he was a nice guy, and all our friends loved us together. It lasted too long, and I'd lost my sense of self-worth.
Then I was single! And free! I was an attractive young woman who had a power level over 9000! And after discovering that guys really liked me, I started dating an awesome guy who was lovely and sweet and thought the world of me.
Now I have another guy friend who likes me, but isn't going to make a move until I'm single again. Will it work out? Nope. Not because he's my friend, but because he has no qualities I would want in a boyfriend. Sometimes, when girls say 'I don't want to ruin the friendship', they're covering up a lot more harmful reasons for rejecting a guy.
Girls liking jerks is very much a teenage/young adult phase, but the nice guy will rise again, and kick some gentlemenly butt!

I think that good guys are already kicking some gentlemanly butt as you put it. The issue is some of us need to realize that we have to have more on our table than just being nice. I usually recommend that guys who are inexperienced with women in general start making female friends (and I mean friends, nothing more) until they learn how to talk to women at the very least.

 

[conflictofinterests]

Protip: Most women decide for themselves whether or not you're a viable dating option in the first five minutes of actively observing you. If you don't make your intentions known during that window of time, you are likely going to be relegated to the friend zone.

However, if you were not aware of these first five minutes of observation, you probably have a second chance in the first five minutes of conversation. Use them wisely to communicate your interest and availability. She may not be interested at first, or she may not be interested ever, but afterwards you have to let the idea of "you" as a viable dating option sink in.

In the meantime, do whatever, you know? Your life doesn't revolve around her. You just fucking met!

It is not always true thought that women make that decision in the first 5 minutes. This time frame is for the initial categorization. It is also not fair to imply that women are the only ones who do this. I myself have a 1 day time frame. If I don't find you "dating" material in that first day I slide you over to the friends slot. If you come up to me and profess your love to me and I am not interested I will tell you so. I am not going to stop being friends with you (but I will give you some space while you deal with any emotional issues this causes), and if things change (and they sometimes do) I will let you know.

Now if you are approaching a woman for the first time with the intent to date, then yes you have a small window of time to make your intentions known and have her consider you romantically. After this point you have a bit of time to convince her of why she should date you (I feel I am wording this poorly and I am about to get some more hate) and spend that time building a bit of mystery yet giving her enough information to make a real decision. You have to be yourself if you want the relationship to go anywhere though, otherwise it is a gamble on how your personalities mesh.

Final point being get on with your life, very valid information. Don't stop living your life because you are talking to a woman.

What I was saying is that the best time to tell a woman you're interested in her is when you first meet, not after 10 months of demure friendship. Maybe you have up to a day with this particular person, maybe up to a week, but once judgement is passed, it's pretty much final, unless their understanding of themselves changes DRAMATICALLY. And at that point in a relationship, neither of you are any flavor of committed, so being yourself and getting on with your life has NO downside.

 

[barbzilla]

snip

Okay, I get you now. I agree, there is NO downside at all with getting on with your life.

 

[DVS Storm]

I actually have dated my friend and we are still friends even though we broke up. Sometimes things like that happen.

And well you are something special for the girl because you are (not necessarily the crying shoulder but) the one who she can talk to. You are her FRIEND. And if she doesn't want to date you, then it may be because you just not her type or she doesn't have that kind of feelings towards you. It can be very shitty if you have a crush on her but really what can you do? You can't force relationship. Also if a friend of mine said that she would like to date me, I may might say the "I don't want to risk our friendship" line because that is exactly what I mean. Break ups can be really fucking messy(yeah I know I'm captain obvious) and you actually might lose a good friend. So yeah this a really complicated thing.

 

[SpartakRB]

Haven't read all 6 pages so I may be re-hashing what others have already said, but then again I'm sure this topic has been done to death before so what the hell..

I used to moan about the friend zone idea when I was younger, but looking at it now I can see why I wasn't that appealing to most women I interacted with.

Step out of your shoes for a minute and look at it from her perspective: if you have a friend who is always there for you, always lends an ear when you need to rant, and who you enjoy spending time with, why would you then risk losing that for a relationship that quite likely won't last? Would it not be better to keep that person as a friend?
All that is before we even get to the small matter of the woman, quite possibly, actually NOT being attracted to you. 9 times out of 10, that spark, that attraction is either there early on or not at all. Being a good friend to someone does not mean that they somehow owe you a relationship (and sex) as a result!

Finally, a woman complaining to a guy who has been a good friend, about the other guys she dates is NOT an example of 'using' a bloke. Using you would be hooking up with you to help herself get over bad relationships.

I wish people who moan about the 'friend zone' would just look in the mirror once in a while and ask themselves "why am I making an effort to be friends with this girl?"

*Taking a completed side-step, try having your girlfriend of 3 and half years say "we're basically just friends now anyway, and we can carry on meeting up as before", as a way to end said relationship. Talk about a kick in the b*llocks*

 

[DracoSuave]

Y'know, I sat through a woman, explaining, in detail, why the "Friend Zone" theory is bullshit.

Let me offer you, dear Escapist, a Venn Diagram instead. Because Charts make things easy to understand.

Spoiler: Here, Have a Pretty Picture

I apologize for the poor quality, but, well, I threw it together in paint for in a few minuets. This is actually the second draft - the first was difficult to read.

And yet it brought me a smile of joy

 

[JB1528]

Queue teenage girls reading this thread for some unknown reason and saying, "But dating friends is weird."

To be honest, I've never seen anyone escape the Friend Zone, I wouldn't mind seeing some stories of people here if they have.

I have, worst relationship of my life.

 

[DoomyMcDoom]

quick message for all you guys who hopelessly follow after women like sick puppies looking to gain a relationship by being there for them doing things for them and buying them stuff... IT DOESN'T WORK, women often look for a challenge in their relationships, and will not have that deep down primal spark, that chemistry, that need for you, if they see you as weak, and subservient... I used to be like that friends... I used to be that "nice" or "sweet" guy, now I do my own thing, women follow ME they buy me things, not cuz I'm needy, but because it's obvious that I DON'T need them. maybe you guys don't get what I'm saying, but if you want a woman to notice you, ignore her a little... I've had 7 women in the last 6 months, I've dumped 5 of those and am currently still with one... the first one triggered the change in me that forever improved my chances with women, and lets just say... I'm 25 now, I had maybe 3 women go out with me more than once prior to this year... so I can say with complete confidence that it's not what you look like, or how much money you have, or what you drive, or anything like that that makes a woman attracted to you, it's who and how you are around them.

when you buy alot of stuff for them or take them to fancy places early on in the relationship, or try to be perfect for her, and do everything for her, it developes a negative psychological state, in which she canot feel anything real about you and she will just use you till she finds someone who GETS IT, and know how to be a man. yes being too much of a "Gentleman" actually hurts HER AND YOU, because she will subconsciously percieve that you are trying to buy her favour, and thus think so badly of yourself that you have to do so to get anywhere with her, women don't normally like guys who think poorly about themselves...

I hope I've helped some of you guys gain a bit of hope, and get out there and practise some confidence, positive self talk, and standing tall... also work on your repertuar of responses and comedy... it helps A LOT. Also find a deoderant that smells nice, and shower daily, and brush yer teeth, keep yourself at least basically maintained, women don't like smelly unkempt guys, unless ur camping and likely have known her awhile...

Cheers, and good hunting!

 

[Sandernista]

*Snip*
If it does work though, imagine waking up to a guy 10 years down the road who still wants to listen to you ramble on for 4 hours about the most inane stuff just because we love hearing your voice. You will be glad you gave him the chance.

Even if you don't want to give that person a chance because you are just not into him for whatever reason, fine stop using him. Stay friends, but your privileges of complaining about the losers you choose to date is over. Don't torture him with this crap.
*snip*

You see there's the problem. Only one of those can be true, pick one.

Anyway, if she doesn't want to be with you then you need to learn to deal with that, and if you can't be with her without being in love with her then you simply cannot be friends, it just doesn't work like that; save yourself a world of hurt and move on.
Also I haven't read the other posts yet so if I'm reiterating what someone else has said or misunderstood, my apologies it's late and I'm tired.

First, you really confused me. We have similarly excellent taste in avatars

And I also completely agree with you.

Are you my not-so-evil twin?

 

[Thedayrecker]

OP sounds very cliche, and now I'm bored.

 

[Erana]

You know what the biggest flaw with this "Friend zone" bullshit is?
FRIENDS ARE NOT A LESSER STATUS THAN BOYFRIEND.
Well, they can be, but boyfriends can also be less important to a girl than their friends, too.

I have male friends who mean a lot to me. Now, I don't go complaining about bad boyfriends because I'm not currently interested in dating, but I do complain about the problems in my life to them. And I try to do the same if they come to me for an ear, too. Because that's what friends do. I would do the same for my female friends.
I fail to understand how getting social permission to serial fuck someone makes them somehow more valuable. And when the boyfriend leaves, friends are there to be loved, hopefully for the rest of one's life. I know that I will always love my sister more than any relationship in my life that I make for myself, even the hypothetical future husband, but I Sure as Hell am never going to have sexytime with her. That alone should be proof enough that love for someone resembling a sibling's is incredibly valuable to me.

The notion that, all the sudden, our platonic relationship is nothing to my male friend but my building credit in their mind, and that I am obligated to turn into what they want me to be because of it just sounds so terribly selfish on their part.
A woman isn't stealing a man's happiness by not being with him. His happiness is his own problem.

I know some people have had a crush on me before, and I can't help how they feel. I hate that it makes them feel bad that I don't date them, but I can't change myself to suit how they feel.
I can just try to be a good friend, and hope that we can talk things through. Emotions complicate things, but it is cruel to expect me to live up to how you feel, rather than the facts of the matter.
Everyone who complains about the "Friend zone," have you ever just tried to talk with the person you like?
Just inform the person of how you feel. If they aren't interested in dating you, then try to talk with them about what you feel, and in what ways it may complicate your platonic relationship. If the woman in question is a mature friend and you are trying your hardest to be level-headed, then I'm sure you can figure something out that makes you feel better.
Try to make the whole affair, "You and your friend together versus the emotions that are messing with your friendship" rather than, "You and your emotions versus the woman who is making you feel terrible."

Communication is the key to a good friendship. And if you don't value your friendship to her, why the Hell should she ever consider dating you?

 

[Binerexis]

There's a girl I know who I've liked for a while and I'm in the Friend Zone. The only outcome I can think of when I consider taking a chance and asking her out is that everything would be the same but we would have sex too. I don't know what it is but that doesn't seem like a radical improvement to me.

 

[Smooth Operator]

FRIENDS ARE NOT A LESSER STATUS THAN BOYFRIEND.

But if a friend turns into a partner wouldn't that be a step up?

 

[Rawker]

People seem to think their are only two types of guys: Cocksuckers and "nice guys". The Cocksuckers should be obvious as to what it is, the asshole that thinks he is the shit. The second is more complicate. Being a "nice guy" and actually being a nice guy are completely different. The "nice guy" is the one that waits on his interest hand and foot, never standing up to her or contradicting her. Then they get in a huff cause their putting her on a pedestal isn't working, and that she would be lucky to have a guy like you. Most of the stories of these guys tends to leave out rather glaring character flaws on the part of the guy, but I won't go into that. I know this cause I used to think like that, then I actually got a girlfriend. Being nice does not mean being submissive and subservient. Treat your love interest as a human being, not as a goddess. (Entering conjecture territory, feel free to correct me, as I only have the male perspective) Most women don't want a servant, they want an equal with whom they can share their life with and all that jazz. Woman don't really think THAT much differently than men. Learned that going to a school that was 75% female. People actually thought I was gay because I went through high school single despite the 75% female thing.

I was about to say more or less the same thing. On the male side and having been FZed a few times, you really have to look at yourself and say "Maybe I'm making myself the victim here, when really I might be the issue." If you act like her brother, she's gonna treat you like she's your brother. I agree, sometimes it is the girls fault. In one case asked the girl on a date to the movies, but she had to leave really early. (Whether or not she was ditching me I had no idea of knowing.) So we talked and we decided we would try some other time. We eventually decide and the day we're going to go, I text her what time she wanted to meet up. She answered back "Well, I probably won't get to see you a whole lot, I'm bringing a date." It being my first dating attempt I'll admit I was really crushed. Later I made friends with a guy who dated a girl who hung out with her. He told me that she always talked about me and how she didn't want to date me but she didn't want to let me down.
Yeah. Needless to say I told her that if she didn't like me like that, then she should have just told me, and not spat it in my face.

 

[Erana]

FRIENDS ARE NOT A LESSER STATUS THAN BOYFRIEND.

But if a friend turns into a partner wouldn't that be a step up?

Did you read the rest of my post? I go on to say that how much you love and care about someone isn't decided by being in a romantic relationship.