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Silvanus

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I don't even know what the Russian narrative is. I do not pay attention to Russian media.
Either that's a lie, or you're genuinely unaware that most of the Twitter talking-heads you repost here are on the payroll of the Russian state. You might think you're not paying attention to Russian media, but your engagement is dominated by it. A solid number of the things you come out with are their manufactured talking-points.

Anyway, you needn't switch "imperialist propaganda" to "state propaganda". We both have seen what our mostly private Western media ecosystem has done for 'israel'. We both have seen how they manufactured consent for the war in Iraq.
Yep, with you there.

I vaguely recall you (I think it was you) citing Noam Chomsky to support voting for Democrats; this is what he's said about Western media: "the purpose of the media is to keep people uninformed and obedient".
Right, yet his actions and body of work show that this was not intended as an absolute statement, but a censure of the mainstream trends. He wouldn't be encouraging us to treat independent investigative outlets as equivalent to state organs.

But you seem never to miss an opportunity to amplify a narrative by that media that justifies hostility toward targets of US aggression-- despite sometimes claiming to oppose that aggression. For example, claims about "authoritarianism" in Venezuela. Or by the left in Bolivia. Or...
Yes, you've equated criticism of something with supporting aggression against that thing before. Its nonsense. An organisation doesn't become irreproachable if American media also happens to dislike it. And you criticise governments all the time, without seeing that as "amplifying narratives used to justify aggression" against their countries.

You argued in favor of israeli atrocity propaganda published in a variety of Western newsrooms concerning rape that was supposed to have occurred on October 7, 2023.
Let's see exactly what you're referring to, here.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Does that mean we’re fucked when the finite resource runs out? Sounds grim.

Besides worlds change. In 1800 civilization as Europe knew it existed because of wooden ships. Didn’t stop them from changing to steam.
Because of fossils fuels we can discover new forms of energy like nuclear energy. When did I claim to use fossil fuels forever?

Cool. Chalk it up alongside all the blackouts caused by issues with every other fuel source.



Obviously! What, and this means we should blindly continue to use them, even as they poison our air, water, and children?



Right, so for context, that article is using the US Energy Information Agency for its data (so, the official source). And we can see the EIA data covers four categories: Direct expenditure; Tax expenditure (which makes up the vast majority of the subsidies on all their reported fuel types); Research & Development; and the DOE loan guarantee program.

Oil Change International, on the other hand, is using the broader definition standardised by the WTO. This includes things like land and resources awarded at a discounted rate, cleanup costs and services, & loans and guarantees given at a discount. They inflate the bill enormously.

Much of the point of their research is that official reports are opaque and incomplete.
Most of the energy issues you listed wasn't the fault of the energy source, like half of them were from workers striking... So if healthcare workers strike in a public healthcare system that proves that that system doesn't work?

No, there's no reason/need to achieve something like net zero just because it makes you feel better about yourself. Naturally phasing out things because they are worse and more expensive than something new is how progress has always been made.

The article you posted shows no comparison between fossil fuel and renewable subsidies. I'm not claiming there's no fossil fuel subsidies. In CONTEXT, as you say, what is the different in subsidies between fossil fuels and renewables?
 

Silvanus

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Most of the energy issues you listed wasn't the fault of the energy source, like half of them were from workers striking... So if healthcare workers strike in a public healthcare system that proves that that system doesn't work?
Nope, bullshit. One of them was contributed to by union action. But this is irrelevant anyway; nobody is saying the system doesn't work to produce energy. I'm saying its plagued by many more severe issues than renewables are, with a history of instability to show for it.

No, there's no reason/need to achieve something like net zero just because it makes you feel better about yourself. Naturally phasing out things because they are worse and more expensive than something new is how progress has always been made.
We phased out CFCs because they were obliterating the ozone layer. We eradicated polio and smallpox because it was killing people. We didn't wait for it to be profitable to save our own fucking lives and health.

The article you posted shows no comparison between fossil fuel and renewable subsidies. I'm not claiming there's no fossil fuel subsidies. In CONTEXT, as you say, what is the different in subsidies between fossil fuels and renewables?
I'll try to find a number for you. But on most categories of subsidy outside of the IEA's four, fossil fuels benefit inordinately more than renewables. This includes land leasing, royalties, preferential rates, & the dual-capacity taxpayer provision.
 

Seanchaidh

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Let's see exactly what you're referring to, here.
I'm sure you know.

Either that's a lie, or you're genuinely unaware that most of the Twitter talking-heads you repost here are on the payroll of the Russian state.
Says who?

Yes, you've equated criticism of something with supporting aggression against that thing before. Its nonsense. An organisation doesn't become irreproachable if American media also happens to dislike it. And you criticise governments all the time, without seeing that as "amplifying narratives used to justify aggression" against their countries.
The difference is that aggression against the countries that you often criticize tends to shortly occur. Because, you know, there's a global empire driving both that 'criticism' and the sanctions or military operations against them. You and I are part of the audience for that 'criticism' that then justifies that aggression with a media ecosystem that is not appropriately skeptical of claims made against 'hostile' states, and deathly allergic to reporting the perspective of those states while pretending independence.
 

Hades

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Because of fossils fuels we can discover new forms of energy like nuclear energy. When did I claim to use fossil fuels forever?
You seem to take offence at the idea of phasing it out. But if that's not the case you should have no problem with renewable or green energy.
 

Hades

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The difference is that aggression against the countries that you often criticize tends to shortly occur. Because, you know, there's a global empire driving both that 'criticism' and the sanctions or military operations against them. You and I are part of the audience for that 'criticism' that then justifies that aggression with a media ecosystem that is not appropriately skeptical of claims made against 'hostile' states, and deathly allergic to reporting the perspective of those states while pretending independence.
Is your approach any different though? You yourself repeat arguments that Russia use to justify their kidnappings, torture and murders, and which are narratives they actively spread to convince foreign and domestic audience of the ''glory'' behind the aforementioned kidnapping tortures and murders.

You also have certain streams accusing any citizen tired of their tin pot dictator robbing them blind as being malicious American actors which is a line those dictators often uses to brutalizes those complaining citizens.

Well, there is a different that most narrative coming from the Kremlin are gibberish, and that many opponents of America do have the uh....''grace'' to act as the cartoonish villains American propaganda paints them as, and have a tendency of being utterly unwilling to govern.

Take Iran. I take some glee in them humiliating the treasonous and ungrateful Americans but a regime that murders woman for wearing clothing slightly the wrong way has only themselves to blame for their bad reputation. Them governing properly would actually be helpful at protecting them from American agression.
 

Asita

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That question is also independent of what you and Silvanus are asserting about the purpose of it. You treat it as Donald Trump began this lawsuit with the intention of using it to pay off his allies using the Justice Department, and that still doesn't make any sense. Someone else could have been the plaintiff, they could have class-actioned this and then made the settlement with the same outcome but no complaints from the judge and even less oversight. And Trump could have gotten paid from that himself after it was already settled.

This end result just makes no sense from that starting position.
At this point your rebuttal boils down to a variation of a nirvana fallacy: "I can imagine cleaner or less politically damaging ways this could have been done, therefore the interpretation that this process was improper must be wrong."

But that does not follow. Real-world institutional conduct is often messy, reactive, and constrained. The existence of hypothetical alternative mechanisms does not negate concerns about the mechanism actually used. More importantly, you still are not meaningfully engaging the core Article III issue.

The concern is not whether or not Trump had an underlying claim stemming from the Littlejohn leaks. The concern is whether this specific litigation functioned as a genuinely adversarial proceeding. That concern is reinforced by several factors taken together:
  1. Despite representing the IRS and Treasury Department by necessity, the DOJ under Trump and Blanche repeatedly signaled that Trump himself was effectively being treated as the department’s primary client, including - but far from limited to - dismissals tied to the idea that attorneys who had been part of cases where Trump was the defendant had "sued their boss" and therefore had no place in the DOJ.
  2. DOJ reportedly failed to raise several obvious and potentially dispositive defenses, including statute-of-limitations issues, questions regarding contractor liability, and the mismatch between the claimed damages and statutory limits.
  3. Trump withdrew the case almost immediately after the judge indicated a willingness to seriously examine adverseness and jurisdictional concerns.
  4. The practical outcome then appears to have been substantially replicated through executive action outside the litigation process altogether.
Any one of those facts individually might be explainable. The issue is the cumulative pattern.

And notably, your response does not really address that pattern. Instead, you keep arguing that if the administration wanted an improper outcome, they could have pursued cleaner alternatives. "I would have done it differently, therefore allegations of impropriety are ridiculous" is not a serious argument, because people aren't optimization engines who unerringly pursue the most efficient path.

Moreover, you're incorrectly claiming that myself and others are claiming that the $1.8 billion + tax audit immunity must have been the exact intended outcome, and that to assume otherwise - that he actually did intend to take $10 billion - necessarily compromises the argument of impropriety...as if the entire thing happened in a vacuum and people (including the judge) weren't calling red flags on the case. And that's just not tenable.

Nobody is required to assume the final result or the maximalist original one was the only acceptable objective. Political actors often scale back once scrutiny increases. A reduced but still highly favorable outcome after judicial pressure is not evidence against impropriety; if anything, it can be entirely consistent with an effort to salvage a politically sustainable version of the original goal.

So the issue is not whether some compensation process for leak victims could lawfully exist in the abstract. The issue is whether this particular sequence of litigation conduct and executive action reflects a genuinely adversarial constitutional process or something more institutionally compromised.
 
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tstorm823

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So the issue is not whether some compensation process for leak victims could lawfully exist in the abstract. The issue is whether this particular sequence of litigation conduct and executive action reflects a genuinely adversarial constitutional process or something more institutionally compromised.
I don't think that is the question. Trump is both the victim of a government related crime and the President of the United States, whether this case could go through under those circumstances is an interesting legal hiccup, but not terribly pertinent to the question of corruption, which is the thing anyone actually cares about. The accusation is that he just made a big slush fund for his allies, and the things we know and the circumstances that lead here just don't reach that conclusion. To be clear, I'm not saying that it's impossible that Trump ordered them to make this fund with the intention of hiding big payouts to his allies. What I am saying is that's an illogical conclusion to reach given what we know.
 

Silvanus

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I'm sure you know.
I suspect you refer to posts in which I brought up Guardian & Intercept reporting that rapes and sexual violence occurred on October 7th.

And i suspect that you'll try to conflate that with the NYT's position that rape was systematic and operational.

Says who?
Their careers are not secrets.

The difference is that aggression against the countries that you often criticize tends to shortly occur. Because, you know, there's a global empire driving both that 'criticism' and the sanctions or military operations against them. You and I are part of the audience for that 'criticism' that then justifies that aggression with a media ecosystem that is not appropriately skeptical of claims made against 'hostile' states, and deathly allergic to reporting the perspective of those states while pretending independence.
Hmm. A little like how you were criticising Ukraine, and then Ukraine was invaded, with the invader justifying it on many of the same bases you had been using. Yet that doesn't seem to have invalidated the criticism for you. Quite the opposite. Now you're doing the same with Taiwan.

Sean, you are part of the audience for the media output that manufactures consent for aggression against the enemies of Russia and China. Its obvious from your reposts that such state-originated content dominates your engagement.

The states i condemn the most frequently on here are the USA, Russia, and Israel. None of these are under existential threat. All have been rapaciously attacking others. I have also criticised states that have been targeted in unjustified wars, such as Iran. This is because Iran's government deserves condemnation nonetheless. The fact it has been unjustifiably attacked doesn't negate the horrific nature of its hyper-theocratic, hyper-right-wing government.
 
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Hades

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The far right are such avid James Bond fans that they somehow missed Judi Dench has played a female M for decades and may in fact be the most prominant one. And from the very start that M took none of James' shit.

Its not just that the far right does not even like the things they claim for their cause, its that they do not even know the very basics of the stuff they seek to claim. They neither enjoy nor know about James Bond. They just want to abuse it to promote the far right.
1779881817290.png
 

Thaluikhain

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Its not just that the far right does not even like the things they claim for their cause, its that they do not even know the very basics of the stuff they seek to claim. They neither enjoy nor know about James Bond. They just want to abuse it to promote the far right.
"When did Star Trek become woke?" is another, embarrassingly common question. It's really bad when some people that worked long term on Star Trek seem surprised that people think it's critical of the right.
 

Schadrach

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"When did Star Trek become woke?" is another, embarrassingly common question. It's really bad when some people that worked long term on Star Trek seem surprised that people think it's critical of the right.
Speaking of, by the Trek timeline we're due for WW3.
 

Thaluikhain

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Speaking of, by the Trek timeline we're due for WW3.
We are also a bit overdue for the Bell Riots, Irish unification, and WW3 as mentioned in TOS, IIRC.

I could totally see the Bell Riots happening in the US very soon, mind.
 

Gordon_4

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"When did Star Trek become woke?" is another, embarrassingly common question. It's really bad when some people that worked long term on Star Trek seem surprised that people think it's critical of the right.
I seem to remember M threatening to have him killed if he kept mouthing off in Casino Royale. And I believe she'd have done it.
 

Thaluikhain

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I seem to remember M threatening to have him killed if he kept mouthing off in Casino Royale. And I believe she'd have done it.
IIRC, it was if he mentioned her real name or something (even just between the two of them), but she also implied it other times, I think.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Nope, bullshit. One of them was contributed to by union action. But this is irrelevant anyway; nobody is saying the system doesn't work to produce energy. I'm saying its plagued by many more severe issues than renewables are, with a history of instability to show for it.



We phased out CFCs because they were obliterating the ozone layer. We eradicated polio and smallpox because it was killing people. We didn't wait for it to be profitable to save our own fucking lives and health.



I'll try to find a number for you. But on most categories of subsidy outside of the IEA's four, fossil fuels benefit inordinately more than renewables. This includes land leasing, royalties, preferential rates, & the dual-capacity taxpayer provision.
From the video, conventional power is more stable than renewable power for several reasons...

Fossils fuels are a big reason for our extended lifespans. Also, I'm for the power source that is the 2nd safest power source and also the greenest source so...

I provided the number in the US. EVs without subsidies would be unaffordable to well over 90% of the population. Renewables require far more land than fossil fuel power.

You seem to take offence at the idea of phasing it out. But if that's not the case you should have no problem with renewable or green energy.
I'm for the power source that is just barely the 2nd safest and also the greenest (and requires far far far far far less land).

1779889212689.png
 

Silvanus

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From the video, conventional power is more stable than renewable power for several reasons...
Yes, the video would say that, because it has a political interest in it. The facts don't substantiate it. You've pointed to one blackout caused by faulty equipment. Meanwhile, fossil fuels keep us tethered to petro-states and despots around the world, rely on finite materials, engender gigantic costs, use half of their generated power just to operate, and poison us.

Fossils fuels are a big reason for our extended lifespans.
So? Do you think we should continue doing something just because it was useful in the past, even if its harmful now?

I provided the number in the US. EVs without subsidies would be unaffordable to well over 90% of the population. Renewables require far more land than fossil fuel power.
All of this just isn't true. Its the cheapest to generate. Land requirements are less.

I don't care about your support for nuclear. We both support nuclear, well done. This discussion is about the misapprehensions you have about renewables.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Yes, the video would say that, because it has a political interest in it. The facts don't substantiate it. You've pointed to one blackout caused by faulty equipment. Meanwhile, fossil fuels keep us tethered to petro-states and despots around the world, rely on finite materials, engender gigantic costs, use half of their generated power just to operate, and poison us.



So? Do you think we should continue doing something just because it was useful in the past, even if its harmful now?



All of this just isn't true. Its the cheapest to generate. Land requirements are less.

I don't care about your support for nuclear. We both support nuclear, well done. This discussion is about the misapprehensions you have about renewables.
And you gave me a Guardian article with the last source you cited, which has a massive political slant too. Everyone is biased to some degree, you can't just say such and such source/person is wrong because of political interest. Explain how she is wrong with what she said, which you never do, you only use ad hominem attacks.

Barrelling towards some net zero policy is also harmful. Germany dismantled wind turbines to mine more coal. Investing in nuclear would've been a far better use of money and resources. Renewables just don't mix well with our current electrical grids so slowing transitioning to them be a better option than just going full steam ahead. And we have an amazing solution in nuclear power to use until we are ready to move to other renewables.

How are renewables using less land than conventional power?
 

thebobmaster

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IIRC, it was if he mentioned her real name or something (even just between the two of them), but she also implied it other times, I think.
She hasn't necessarily implied intentionally having him killed, but did say in Goldeneye that while she doesn't take it lightly, if he were to die on a mission it wouldn't affect her decision making. From Goldeneye:

"If you think for one moment I don't have the balls to send a man out to die, your instincts are dead wrong. I have no compunction about sending you to your death. But, I won't do it on a whim. Even with your cavalier attitude towards life."