Funny Events of the "Woke" world

[Dwarvenhobble]

Not such a funny event to happen but funny to see it frame this way.

Apparently Netflix and Dave Chappelle are totally connected to two trans woman being killed because um........ the journalist says so......

Life Goes On For Chappelle, Netflix, As 2 More Trans Women Killed

"I would like to apologize,” said comedian Dave Chappelle. But that was just another joke, as the death toll of trans Americans killed in 2021 reached a historic new high.

www.forbes.com

 

[Dreiko]

So was race science though.

It's why you ended up with "research" showing how clearly the genitalia of white prostitutes resembled that of black women, or medical literature describing how masturbation would cause people to literally devolve into lesser forms of human life and pass their inferior traits onto their children. You could argue (and I would) that scientific racism actually necessitates some kind of intra-racial hierarchy to cover for its own bullshit. If you've decided that white people are the superior race, you then need some explanation for why aren't all the perfect supermen you're claiming they are. Every system of racism has had to produce such an explanation.

Race science, certainly at its high point, was a universal system for measuring human intelligence, inclination to criminality and general worth by reference to their physical features. That's not to say phrenology is the same thing as race science, but the two are so entangled as to be pretty inseparable in historical context. After all, until quite recently almost everyone believed in a scientific racial hierarchy. Not doing so was incredibly difficult, because it was simply part of how the world worked. I seriously doubt there were many phrenologists who did not accept the existence of a racial hierarchy as an indisputable truth of the world.

Scientific racism today is a little different to the scientific racism of history, because in order to survive racists have had to rationalize it and strip it of all the things which just sound stupid and comical to a modern audience. One way of rationalizing racism is by playing down the idea of intra-racial differences and positing it as purely a comparison between racial groups. Of course, let's be real, scientific racists today still believe in the theory of hereditary degeneracy. They still believe that there are superior and inferior people within racial groups who have different racial characteristics despite technically being the same "race". They need to, because otherwise the theory doesn't work. Race is not actually a real thing, it has no scientific basis. To give it a scientific basis, you need to talk about things which are real instead of talking about race, and then pretend that one actually equals the other.

I think you can list differences without placing value on them. Like for example, a lot of asian folk are disproportionately lactose intolerant, not sure if that is because they didn't historically consume much dairy or what, but either way, you don't need to go "and therefore the milk-drinking race is inherently superior!" to just note that trait. If you don't like calling that "race" but "topological morphology" or what have you I really don't mind, but whatever you wanna call it, there definitely is such a phenomenon of humans who stem from different parts of the planet having some differences to their makeup and there's no reason to not describe it or research it further because it provides knowledge and knowledge is good. The only issue is placing hierarchical thinking on top of this analysis but the solution is not to embrace ignorance but to just bypass hierarchy.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

The only issue is placing hierarchical thinking on top of this analysis but the solution is not to embrace ignorance but to just bypass hierarchy.

Utopian thinking. Nobody's "embracing ignorance", but you're asking a country to "bypass hierarchy" when black people stealing food get mugshots while white dude's dissolving their families in acid get family photos in newspapers.

Choosing ignorance is just accepting assumptions based on race science instead of putting in the work.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Some more madness from woke world, compilation of stuff.


Tariq upset about apparent buck breaking again this time in the Eternals because a black guy not being aggressively sexual means he must have been violated apparently.


Apparent attempts to Dox or intimidate jurors in the Rittenhouse trials by a person (falsely) claiming to be related to George Floyd

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

I think you can list differences without placing value on them. Like for example, a lot of asian folk are disproportionately lactose intolerant, not sure if that is because they didn't historically consume much dairy or what, but either way, you don't need to go "and therefore the milk-drinking race is inherently superior!" to just note that trait. If you don't like calling that "race" but "topological morphology" or what have you I really don't mind, but whatever you wanna call it, there definitely is such a phenomenon of humans who stem from different parts of the planet having some differences to their makeup and there's no reason to not describe it or research it further because it provides knowledge and knowledge is good. The only issue is placing hierarchical thinking on top of this analysis but the solution is not to embrace ignorance but to just bypass hierarchy.

Consuming dairy beyond childhood is a genetic mutation. It just means their ancestors weren't those who developed the mutation

Utopian thinking. Nobody's "embracing ignorance", but you're asking a country to "bypass hierarchy" when black people stealing food get mugshots while white dude's dissolving their families in acid get family photos in newspapers.

Choosing ignorance is just accepting assumptions based on race science instead of putting in the work.

So why do a number of US news agencies keep trying to lighten the skin colour on some perpetrators?

 

[Agema]

Race science, certainly at its high point, was a universal system for measuring human intelligence, inclination to criminality and general worth by reference to their physical features. That's not to say phrenology is the same thing as race science, but the two are so entangled as to be pretty inseparable in historical context. After all, until quite recently almost everyone believed in a scientific racial hierarchy. Not doing so was incredibly difficult, because it was simply part of how the world worked. I seriously doubt there were many phrenologists who did not accept the existence of a racial hierarchy as an indisputable truth of the world.

It does not change the fact that phrenology had a life of its own outside its co-option by race science. So too was evolution co-opted by race science, and many other theories too: this does not make any of them inseparable from race science. Literally anything that could be leveraged to attempt to explain racial differences would be by those who sought to make such claims.

To make arguments such as that most phrenologists would have believed in racial hierarchy is not necessarily a strong point either. At that period in time, so probably would most chemists, physicists, lawyers, and the general public also believe in racial hierarchy: it was a prevalent belief of the era.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

It does not change the fact that phrenology had a life of its own outside its co-option by race science. So too was evolution co-opted by race science, and many other theories too: this does not make any of them inseparable from race science. Literally anything that could be leveraged to attempt to explain racial differences would be by those who sought to make such claims.

To make arguments such as that most phrenologists would have believed in racial hierarchy is not necessarily a strong point either. At that period in time, so probably would most chemists, physicists, lawyers, and the general public also believe in racial hierarchy: it was a prevalent belief of the era.

So should we keep bringing forward assumptions from that era for use in forensic anthropology?

 

[Dreiko]

Utopian thinking. Nobody's "embracing ignorance", but you're asking a country to "bypass hierarchy" when black people stealing food get mugshots while white dude's dissolving their families in acid get family photos in newspapers.

Choosing ignorance is just accepting assumptions based on race science instead of putting in the work.

I'm not asking to eliminate hierarchical thinking entirely, just, to put it where it makes sense, such as in meritocratic achievement. There's tons of things which we used to have a hierarchical approach towards in the past that we no longer do. For one, faith was such a thing, where you had people proudly proclaim being religious and making a show of it and using that to boost their status. But nowadays we see that as silly. So it proves that it is possible to shift what a hierarchical perspective is focused on, and that you can have that even be a beneficial to humanity thing. So all I'm saying here is that we just need to realign our goals and focus on more productive things to be hierarchical about, it's pretty damn realistic.


The alternative is what bygone age sage kings tried to do, by keeping knowledge from the masses because they are too dumb and weak to know how to handle it, so you "protect" them by keeping them ignorant of facts about reality because you worry they'd misuse them. Thing is, the sage king is not exempt from this thinking, so even if I were to grant you that such a possibility exists and such an approach is warranted, I sure as hell don't TRUST you to make the correct call about which knowledge is fine to give to whom, and which should be taboo information only the elites have access to. We are beyond the era of paternalistic deified rulers, that genie is out of the bottle, you're not putting it back in.

 

[Hades]

Not such a funny event to happen but funny to see it frame this way.

Apparently Netflix and Dave Chappelle are totally connected to two trans woman being killed because um........ the journalist says so......

Life Goes On For Chappelle, Netflix, As 2 More Trans Women Killed

"I would like to apologize,” said comedian Dave Chappelle. But that was just another joke, as the death toll of trans Americans killed in 2021 reached a historic new high.

www.forbes.com

Not directly connected but when there's very violent sentiments towards a thoroughly marginalized group then its not very helpful for a widely admired man to go ''point at those freaks and laugh!''. In fact it might legitimize said violent sentiments. After all the members of those groups are just ''freaks''.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I'm not asking to eliminate hierarchical thinking entirely, just, to put it where it makes sense, such as in meritocratic achievement. There's tons of things which we used to have a hierarchical approach towards in the past that we no longer do. For one, faith was such a thing, where you had people proudly proclaim being religious and making a show of it and using that to boost their status. But nowadays we see that as silly. So it proves that it is possible to shift what a hierarchical perspective is focused on, and that you can have that even be a beneficial to humanity thing. So all I'm saying here is that we just need to realign our goals and focus on more productive things to be hierarchical about, it's pretty damn realistic.


The alternative is what bygone age sage kings tried to do, by keeping knowledge from the masses because they are too dumb and weak to know how to handle it, so you "protect" them by keeping them ignorant of facts about reality because you worry they'd misuse them. Thing is, the sage king is not exempt from this thinking, so even if I were to grant you that such a possibility exists and such an approach is warranted, I sure as hell don't TRUST you to make the correct call about which knowledge is fine to give to whom, and which should be taboo information only the elites have access to. We are beyond the era of paternalistic deified rulers, that genie is out of the bottle, you're not putting it back in.

Uhh, neat anime rant and all but what's that got to do with a forensic anthropologist saying we shouldn't keep using old assumptions based on race science in modern anthropology?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

So why do a number of US news agencies keep trying to lighten the skin colour on some perpetrators?

Lmao "but sometimes they make them lighter". And sometimes they make them darker, meanwhile:

 

[Dreiko]

Uhh, neat anime rant and all but what's that got to do with a forensic anthropologist saying we shouldn't keep using old assumptions based on race science in modern anthropology?

Because the one saying this is cogninzant of the fact that these assumptions are actually accurate and conducive to helpful knowledge with identifying dead bodies but out of a concern for how society would supposedly misuse this information towards racist ends they say it should be kept under wraps where only the silent scientists are aware of it, so that the rest of us can be protected from ourselves, since we can't possess this information without causing enough societal harm to warrant them to usurp our right to freedom of information.


Them fundamentally trying to make any such determination when in fact they're just supposed to be telling bones apart is fundamentally wrong-headed. They are not the rulers of the world, their ethical obligation is to further knowledge and science not racial equity.

If they have a scientific bone to pick with this method they can just speak of those matters solely, they don't need to bring in all that racial stuff in. They do that because they can't make a scientific case for why this practice in wrong, so they need to make a deified wise man argument instead.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Because the one saying this is cogninzant of the fact that these assumptions are actually accurate and conducive to helpful knowledge with identifying dead bodies but out of a concern for how society would supposedly misuse this information towards racist ends they say it should be kept under wraps where only the silent scientists are aware of it, so that the rest of us can be protected from ourselves, since we can't possess this information without causing enough societal harm to warrant them to usurp our right to freedom of information.

Them fundamentally trying to make any such determination when in fact they're just supposed to be telling bones apart is fundamentally wrong-headed. They are not the rulers of the world, their ethical obligation is to further knowledge and science not racial equity.

If they have a scientific bone to pick with this method they can just speak of those matters solely, they don't need to bring in all that racial stuff in. They do that because they can't make a scientific case for why this practice in wrong, so they need to make a deified wise man argument instead.

"Who cares how it will be used, we just want to know if we can" is the reason why students going to school for engineering need to take multiple ethics classes.

Who are you to determine what their ethical obligation is? Are you their Sage King?

 

[crimson5pheonix]

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Fucking hell, they were gonna court-martial him for being gay

 

[Dreiko]

"Who cares how it will be used, we just want to know if we can" is the reason why students going to school for engineering need to take multiple ethics classes.

Who are you to determine what their ethical obligation is? Are you their Sage King?

Nobody should be telling other people this, I'm only against telling them to not do this thing, I'm not telling em to go on to do it if they don't feel they should.

Nobody is the sage king, nobody should have that kind of power. We each have to just do what we think is right with the best information available to us, and to have such a situation, we need maximal access to such information.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Nobody should be telling other people this, I'm only against telling them to not do this thing, I'm not telling em to go on to do it if they don't feel they should.

Nobody is the sage king, nobody should have that kind of power. We each have to just do what we think is right with the best information available to us, and to have such a situation, we need maximal access to such information.

Ironically, that's what they want to do: get more information that's not based on turn of last century race science, stop using inaccurate racial stereotypes in categories, etc.

But you claim that you know their ethical obligations better than they do, and I want to know what gives you that right?

 

[Dreiko]

Ironically, that's what they want to do: get more information that's not based on turn of last century race science, stop using inaccurate racial stereotypes in categories, etc.

But you claim that you know their ethical obligations better than they do, and I want to know what gives you that right?

You don't need to get more information by stopping someone else using something they think is worth using, and you don't make the case for that by just talking about random irrelevant subjects like racism.

My claim is that nobody knows someone else's obligations better than themselves, to not dictate it to other people. If you're an anthropologist and YOU want to stop telling skeletons apart and you think this will further science and humanity...cool. Go do that. Nobody's stopping you.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Not directly connected but when there's very violent sentiments towards a thoroughly marginalized group then its not very helpful for a widely admired man to go ''point at those freaks and laugh!''. In fact it might legitimize said violent sentiments. After all the members of those groups are just ''freaks''.

Guess we better ban all jokes about every group except those deemed at the bottom of the progressive stack thus deemed most privileged by said system........... Or just have people develop a sense of humour and learn the difference between a joke and an malicious attack. I get it's hard when said people will literally scream about how they want to murder people and throw all kinds of accusations against people then when called out turn round and pretend it's a joke but hey that's a community issue to figure out there.

So should we keep bringing forward assumptions from that era for use in forensic anthropology?

If you'd bothered to read the paper I'd posted it's not assumptions it's based on collected data from people from said areas and from said heritage.

If you're going to pull the card of "Well it's invalid because it was linked with bad stuff" guess we better restart Science cause the Fallists claim all of it is connected to bad stuff.

Lmao "but sometimes they make them lighter". And sometimes they make them darker, meanwhile:

Depends on what photos can be acquired quickly at a guess.

"Who cares how it will be used, we just want to know if we can" is the reason why students going to school for engineering need to take multiple ethics classes.

Who are you to determine what their ethical obligation is? Are you their Sage King?

Again they're pissy because they can't claim 75% of Vikings were African without being easily called out on the BS. Sorry but I don't see the use for furthering historical revisionism as a good outcome for abandoning it. How is it a good solution to go "Fine we'll just re-write hsitory to make you feel more part of it rather than looking into or telling your actual ancestral histories more"?

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Fucking hell, they were gonna court-martial him for being gay

Just gonna leave this here.

"Randy Shilts was a San Francisco Chronicle reporter and close friend to Harvey Milk … also Harvey Milk’s biographer. In his glowing book The Mayor of Castro Street, he wrote of Milk’s 'relationship' with the McKinley boy: '… Sixteen-year-old McKinley was looking for some kind of father figure. … At 33, Milk was launching a new life, though he could hardly have imagined the unlikely direction toward which his new lover would pull him.'"

Ironically, that's what they want to do: get more information that's not based on turn of last century race science, stop using inaccurate racial stereotypes in categories, etc.

But you claim that you know their ethical obligations better than they do, and I want to know what gives you that right?

Ah yes the full information about how Henry the 7th was actually an African man because they found one scroll that had a drawing on him and it was brown, so was the colour of the scroll but totally that proves he was African guys.

Sorry I've seen this bullshit circulating Tumblr and other areas too long to not recognise it coming up now while trying to justify it's ridiculousness