Funny Events of the "Woke" world

[Silvanus]

The deportation process has been transformed drastically over the last two decades. Today, two-thirds of individuals deported are subject to what are known as “summary removal procedures,” which deprive them of both the right to appear before a judge and the right to apply for status in the United States. In 1996, as part of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRIRA), Congress established streamlined deportation procedures that allow the government to deport (or “remove”) certain noncitizens from the United States without a hearing before an immigration judge. Two of these procedures, “expedited removal” and “reinstatement of removal,” allow immigration officers to serve as both prosecutor and judge—often investigating, charging, and making a decision all within the course of one day. These rapid deportation decisions often fail to take into account many critical factors, including whether the individual is eligible to apply for lawful status in the United States, whether he or she has long-standing ties here, or whether he or she has U.S.-citizen family members.

So it doesn't say they're not entitled to due process.

Also, this is from 2014. Funny how ya'll only b!tch about this stuff when someone you don't like is doing it. Why wasn't this some massive discussion when Obama was in office?

? I condemned Obama and Biden for deportations. I did so again in this very thread.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Let's do that. You initially replied to me because I said to Silvanus that the deportations weren't of legal residents and I was asking of proof of that (that still hasn't been provided). I agreed with you that there are some individual cases that are pretty bad, but the narrative that ICE and Trump are just going around deporting legal residents, ignoring court orders, ignoring laws, etc.; that's all complete bunk. I do obviously care about the anyone getting wronged regardless of what it is (and that has happened) but it's not happening on a large or massive scale.

Funny Events of the "Woke" world

"I know they did it for specific, malicious reasons, I just don't know what they are" is one hell of a delusion. Again, not what I'm saying. My central point is that this was not merely the result of broad policy, as you characterised it, sweeping up a few people in error. There need be no...

forums.escapistmagazine.com

This was also ALL BEFORE TRUMP. You guys only complain when someone you don't like does this stuff.

The deportation process has been transformed drastically over the last two decades. Today, two-thirds of individuals deported are subject to what are known as “summary removal procedures,” which deprive them of both the right to appear before a judge and the right to apply for status in the United States. In 1996, as part of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRIRA), Congress established streamlined deportation procedures that allow the government to deport (or “remove”) certain noncitizens from the United States without a hearing before an immigration judge. Two of these procedures, “expedited removal” and “reinstatement of removal,” allow immigration officers to serve as both prosecutor and judge—often investigating, charging, and making a decision all within the course of one day. These rapid deportation decisions often fail to take into account many critical factors, including whether the individual is eligible to apply for lawful status in the United States, whether he or she has long-standing ties here, or whether he or she has U.S.-citizen family members.

You very clearly didn't read the very post you quoted, because I went over expedited removal IN MY POST.

Even expedited removal, which can be carried out without a court hearing still allows protections to people who indicate that they intend to apply for asylum or have a credible reason to fear for their safety if deported, and prior to removal an asylum officer must review their case, and if asylum is not granted the individual can request a hearing before an immigration judge who must review the case within 7 days. These are all legal requirements.

So yes, a person can be deported without judicial review, but they are also required to be given judicial review if they ask for it. This is how it works and has worked for longer than you have been alive. Everyone is entitled to due process.

 

[tstorm823]

So it doesn't say they're not entitled to due process.

Right, but it says that the process they are due might not require any courts or judges involved. We're back at that "everyone is due some amount of process, but what that process is may vary so greatly as to make the discussion of that phrase meaningless."

 

[Silvanus]

Right, but it says that the process they are due might not require any courts or judges involved.

Correct. And I'm not here arguing that it's illegal that no court or judge was involved in each case. I'm arguing that the process to which they are entitled wasn't followed. Zero notice, no meaningful opportunity to pursue habeas, no opportunity for judicial review. Processes explicitly stated as applicable by federal courts.

We're back at that "everyone is due some amount of process, but what that process is may vary so greatly as to make the discussion of that phrase meaningless."

I'm not discussing the phrase. I'm using it to refer to the processes that are due, and I've separately been clear in describing what those specifically are here. It's Phoenix that is arguing that "due process is not required", a self-contradicting argument that essentially means no process is due.

But of course, you're not bringing this up with him, because your main purpose here isn't clarity, it's defence of summary deportations.

 

[tstorm823]

I'm not discussing the phrase. I'm using it to refer to the processes that are due, and I've separately been clear in describing what those specifically are here. It's Phoenix that is arguing that "due process is not required", a self-contradicting argument that essentially means no process is due.

But of course, you're not bringing this up with him, because your main purpose here isn't clarity, it's defence of summary deportations.

You have to appreciate that Phoenix is more earnest than either of us, he's never going to appreciate the sort of pedantry we provide here. You're gonna need to spell out "its not that there isn't due process, the due process is just different" to advance the argument.

Now everyone is saying deportations require due process, again, not true.

You (and maybe some of them) are interpreting due process as some uniform thing that people have or don't have. It isn't that they don't require due process, it's that lesser kinds of process are due. The federal government and the courts agree there is a certain right to judicial review when the potential deportee chooses to pursue it, and the broadest claim being made is that the speed of deportation has effectively denied people that opportunity. But I don't know of anyone who has been deported while having filed such a request, and I don't know if "Come on! They only gave us like two days!" is a serious argument that will hold up in court.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

So it doesn't say they're not entitled to due process.



? I condemned Obama and Biden for deportations. I did so again in this very thread.

It says ICE can be both prosecutor and judge so what is it that Trump is doing illegally? Sure, technically still due process, but you the court system isn't required. You said the 238 Venezuelans didn't get due process, where is your evidence of that? You've provided zero evidence of your claim from the very start. The very telling thing is that you all keep posting the news story about Trump ignoring the judge's order about returning the planes. But if ICE/Trump couldn't deport them in the 1st place (regardless of that judge's ruling about returning the planes), then there'd be stories all over the place about that, but there isn't.

It's not just you (as I said ya'll). It's funny how when one guy does something, it's not really talked about and then when another guy does the same thing, it's a massive issue that is talked about incessantly.

So yes, a person can be deported without judicial review, but they are also required to be given judicial review if they ask for it. This is how it works and has worked for longer than you have been alive. Everyone is entitled to due process.

Ok, so what is ICE/Trump doing that is illegal?

You have to appreciate that Phoenix is more earnest than either of us, he's never going to appreciate the sort of pedantry we provide here. You're gonna need to spell out "its not that there isn't due process, the due process is just different" to advance the argument.

You (and maybe some of them) are interpreting due process as some uniform thing that people have or don't have. It isn't that they don't require due process, it's that lesser kinds of process are due. The federal government and the courts agree there is a certain right to judicial review when the potential deportee chooses to pursue it, and the broadest claim being made is that the speed of deportation has effectively denied people that opportunity. But I don't know of anyone who has been deported while having filed such a request, and I don't know if "Come on! They only gave us like two days!" is a serious argument that will hold up in court.

Yeah, I was assuming due process required going through a whole legal procedure in court and a judge and everything.

 

[Silvanus]

You have to appreciate that Phoenix is more earnest than either of us, he's never going to appreciate the sort of pedantry we provide here. You're gonna need to spell out "its not that there isn't due process, the due process is just different" to advance the argument.

The specifics of what are due have been explained several times.

The federal government and the courts agree there is a certain right to judicial review when the potential deportee chooses to pursue it, and the broadest claim being made is that the speed of deportation has effectively denied people that opportunity. But I don't know of anyone who has been deported while having filed such a request, and I don't know if "Come on! They only gave us like two days!" is a serious argument that will hold up in court.

Not "only two days". None. People were not told their status had changed, were told nothing, and some were taken to the airport the morning after the order had been made-- even though it hadn't been made public. That is a denial of the ability to pursue habeas, a denial of the right to request judicial review. There was no physical way they could have filed.

 

[Silvanus]

It says ICE can be both prosecutor and judge so what is it that Trump is doing illegally? Sure, technically still due process, but you the court system isn't required. You said the 238 Venezuelans didn't get due process, where is your evidence of that? You've provided zero evidence of your claim from the very start. The very telling thing is that you all keep posting the news story about Trump ignoring the judge's order about returning the planes. But if ICE/Trump couldn't deport them in the 1st place (regardless of that judge's ruling about returning the planes), then there'd be stories all over the place about that, but there isn't.

I beg you, go back and read the ruling from the federal appeals court posted earlier. It very clearly explains all this-- the processes that are due, the entitlements, and how they weren't followed.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

I beg you, go back and read the ruling from the federal appeals court posted earlier. It very clearly explains all this-- the processes that are due, the entitlements, and how they weren't followed.

Then post it.

 

[Trunkage]

Then post it.

There would be no point. You wouldn't read it. You just pretend you were right anyway

How do I know this? It's already been posted.

If you just want to think you are right, go ahead. Nobody cares. If you want to prove to us you are right, do some research. The people here have kindly posted it for you

 

[Trunkage]

Right, but it says that the process they are due might not require any courts or judges involved. We're back at that "everyone is due some amount of process, but what that process is may vary so greatly as to make the discussion of that phrase meaningless."

I can understand that citizens have a higher level of due process than migrants

I can't understand the claim that there's none for migrants. (Not your claim)

But, you are now getting to the truth of the matter. This is choas meant to deform the meaning of Due Process and Trump can use that to attack political opponents later

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Ok, so what is ICE/Trump doing that is illegal?

Denying due process to immigrants while not following legal deportation procedures.
Renditioning people to a foreign prison and refusing the follow court orders to return them.
Deporting children who are US citizens.

It's like you haven't paid attention to anything in the last 50 pages of this thread.

Yeah, I was assuming due process required going through a whole legal procedure in court and a judge and everything.

So you're arguing with us based on your own assumption on how things work without doing any research and without reading any of the sources we've provided actually explaining how things work, including direct links to the actual laws, and apparently you think the rest of us are unreasonable for judging you for it.

 

[Silvanus]

Then post it.

I already posted these earlier in the thread, but I'll post it again since you ask;

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ca4.178400/gov.uscourts.ca4.178400.8.0.pdf

"It is difficult in some cases to get to the very heart of the matter. But in this case, it is not hard at all. The government is asserting a right to stash away residents of this country in foreign prisons without the semblance of due process that is the foundation of our constitutional order. Further, it claims in essence that because it has rid itself of custody that there is nothing that can be done. This should be shocking not only to judges, but to the intuitive sense of liberty that Americans far removed from courthouses still hold dear. The government asserts that Abrego Garcia is a terrorist and a member of MS-13. Perhaps, but perhaps not. Regardless, he is still entitled to due process."

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a931_2c83.pdf

"We have held that an individual subject to detention and removal under that statute is entitled to “‘judicial review’” as to “questions of interpretation and constitutionality” of the Act as well as whether he or she “is in fact an alien enemy fourteen years of age or older.” (Under the Proclamation, the term “alien enemy” is defined to include “all Venezuelan citizens 14 years of age or older who are members of TdA, are within the United States, and are not actually naturalized or lawful permanent residents of the United States.”)"

"It is well established that the Fifth Amendment entitles aliens to due process of law” in the context of removal proceedings. So, the detainees are entitled to notice and opportunity to be heard “appropriate to the nature of the case.” More specifically, in this context, AEA detainees must receive notice that they are subject to removal under the Act. The notice must be afforded within a reasonable time and in such a manner as will allow them to actually seek habeas relief in the proper venue before such removal occurs".

 

[Phoenixmgs]

There would be no point. You wouldn't read it. You just pretend you were right anyway

How do I know this? It's already been posted.

If you just want to think you are right, go ahead. Nobody cares. If you want to prove to us you are right, do some research. The people here have kindly posted it for you

Because I totally never post excerpts from sources that others post showing that it doesn't say whet they claim it says...

Denying due process to immigrants while not following legal deportation procedures.
Renditioning people to a foreign prison and refusing the follow court orders to return them.
Deporting children who are US citizens.

It's like you haven't paid attention to anything in the last 50 pages of this thread.



So you're arguing with us based on your own assumption on how things work without doing any research and without reading any of the sources we've provided actually explaining how things work, including direct links to the actual laws, and apparently you think the rest of us are unreasonable for judging you for it.

I posted articles about laws saying ICE can act as prosecutors and judges to deport immigrants (that former presidents have used quite often). El Salvador president has refused to return Garcia. If Trump deported children that are US citizens, I think I would've seen this story because it would be huge.

You still have produced anything showing that Trump/ICE are doing anything illegal.

I already posted these earlier in the thread, but I'll post it again since you ask;

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ca4.178400/gov.uscourts.ca4.178400.8.0.pdf

"It is difficult in some cases to get to the very heart of the matter. But in this case, it is not hard at all. The government is asserting a right to stash away residents of this country in foreign prisons without the semblance of due process that is the foundation of our constitutional order. Further, it claims in essence that because it has rid itself of custody that there is nothing that can be done. This should be shocking not only to judges, but to the intuitive sense of liberty that Americans far removed from courthouses still hold dear. The government asserts that Abrego Garcia is a terrorist and a member of MS-13. Perhaps, but perhaps not. Regardless, he is still entitled to due process."

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a931_2c83.pdf

"We have held that an individual subject to detention and removal under that statute is entitled to “‘judicial review’” as to “questions of interpretation and constitutionality” of the Act as well as whether he or she “is in fact an alien enemy fourteen years of age or older.” (Under the Proclamation, the term “alien enemy” is defined to include “all Venezuelan citizens 14 years of age or older who are members of TdA, are within the United States, and are not actually naturalized or lawful permanent residents of the United States.”)"

"It is well established that the Fifth Amendment entitles aliens to due process of law” in the context of removal proceedings. So, the detainees are entitled to notice and opportunity to be heard “appropriate to the nature of the case.” More specifically, in this context, AEA detainees must receive notice that they are subject to removal under the Act. The notice must be afforded within a reasonable time and in such a manner as will allow them to actually seek habeas relief in the proper venue before such removal occurs".

He got due process... You don't have to prove in a court of law someone committed a crime or is a gang member to have them deported, that is literally not how immigration law works and hasn't worked for like 30 years. At best, you may have shown Trump/ICE is merely citing the wrong law because there's other laws that don't require "judicial review" to deport someone as I've posted this like 3 times now.

Removal Without Recourse: The Growth of Summary Deportations from the United States

The deportation process has been transformed drastically over the last two decades. Today, two-thirds of individuals deported are subject to what are known as “summary removal procedures,” which deprive them of both the right to appear before a judge and the right to apply for status in the...

www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org

 

[Silvanus]

He got due process... You don't have to prove in a court of law someone committed a crime or is a gang member to have them deported, that is literally not how immigration law works and hasn't worked for like 30 years.

Nobody has said that's what's required.

Those two federal courts have very explicitly said what is required.

And it was not followed.

 

[thebobmaster]

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/05/01/trump-deportations-court-ruling-00321455

Not that this will convince anyone who's determined that everything is kosher, but a Trump-appointed judge ruled that Trump's use of the Alien Enemies Act as justification for the deportations is unlawful, as it only applies when the country is under armed, organized attack, and gang activity does not meet that bar.

 

[Silvanus]

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/05/01/trump-deportations-court-ruling-00321455

Not that this will convince anyone who's determined that everything is kosher, but a Trump-appointed judge ruled that Trump's use of the Alien Enemies Act as justification for the deportations is unlawful, as it only applies when the country is under armed, organized attack, and gang activity does not meet that bar.

To link to the text itself, and highlight an explicit section of the conclusion;

"The Court has concluded that J.A.V., J.G.G., and W.G.H., in their individual capacity and as representatives of the certified class, have demonstrated entitlement to relief in habeas. Respondents have designated or will designate them as alien enemies under the Proclamation, subjecting them to unlawful detention, transfer, and removal under the AEA. As a result, J.A.V., J.G.G., and W.G.H. are each entitled to the granting of their Petition for a Writ of Habeas Corpus, and a permanent injunction prohibiting Respondents from employing the Proclamation and the AEA against them. The certified class warrants similar protection. The Court will issue a Final Judgment with the appropriate relief."

((In this case, the 'certified class' is defined as: "Venezuelan aliens, 14 years old or older, who have not been naturalized, who Respondents have designated or in the future designate as alien enemies under the Proclamation, and who are detained or reside in the Southern District of Texas")).

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/05/01/trump-deportations-court-ruling-00321455

Not that this will convince anyone who's determined that everything is kosher, but a Trump-appointed judge ruled that Trump's use of the Alien Enemies Act as justification for the deportations is unlawful, as it only applies when the country is under armed, organized attack, and gang activity does not meet that bar.

I wonder if that judge will be found to have "harbored an illegal alien" too?

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I posted articles about laws saying ICE can act as prosecutors and judges to deport immigrants (that former presidents have used quite often).

Yes, they can, but those same immigrants can ask for judicial review and when they do they are legally entitled to it, which I have also posted about, and provided proof of. They have been denied this right, and therefore denied due process. You seem to be completely ignoring that part despite the fact that I've addressed it multiple times.

El Salvador president has refused to return Garcia.

No he hasn't, the Trump administration has not asked for his return.

If Trump deported children that are US citizens, I think I would've seen this story because it would be huge.

I literally posted multiple articles about it in this thread, and it is a huge story. I happened last week.

You still have produced anything showing that Trump/ICE are doing anything illegal.

You've chosen to ignore all proof. You are not arguing in good faith.

 

[Worgen]

Unfuck america tour disbands over microagressions. Its shit like this that turns weak people right wing.