G20 Police Confiscate LARPing Gear

Diligent

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Dec 20, 2009
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Pebsy said:
Just to set something clear, I think people fail to realize there have been multiple assasination attempts on many of the leaders in the g20 summit, the police acted in a justified manner to the crowd. For non violent crowds they merely stood back and marked boundries and made very specifically targeted arrests in a large mass of people, and for the anarchist f***heads who went around smashing things and setting car on fire unroll there were small explosions the police useful conventional tactics used worldwide. I fail to see how the police in the g20 summit acted worse then other
similiar situations around the world, In my opinion it was necessary to use tear gas. Arson, vadalism, assault on innocent coca ( commuted by the anarchist group ) were all commuted those are criminal offences

oh btw I live in Toronto, my thought are all from experience
Well you might be singing to a different tune if you were held against your will for 24 hours without cause just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Sure, there were dipshit vandals who deserve to be punished, but preemptive arrests sets a scary precedent.

And what I don't understand is if these people are afraid of assassinations and violence, why not just do a big video conference? That way it doesn't cost a ridiculous 1.2 BILLION in taxpayer money, and there are no threats of riots. Oh wait, they need their photo ops, because that's the only thing that gets accomplished anyway.
 

Booze Zombie

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Dec 8, 2007
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Your average coppa isn't noted for their intellect, they're noted for their keen ability to make criminals of us all, though.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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Like many articles of this sort I think a lot of crucial information is missing to make a fair desician and this was written to be somewhat slanted in an anti-police direction.

For starters I'd wonder what the heck this guy was doing anywhere near G20. This event was a long time in coming, and the riots and police prescence are pretty much expected. Given that he was apparently alone as opposed to with a group of LARPers, and so on, I'd immediatly wonder if there is a plausible deniability claim being made here. I mean we more or less have only his word for the fact that he wasn't carrying the machete, and that he wasn't planning on shooting flaming arrows at police.

Truthfully a lot of SCA and MWS guys I've known would have shown up for a riot wearing their armor, and to be honest a lot of those "padded" weapons hurt like heck. People break ribs and everything else. In fact a lot of guys in SCA will brag about how much damage they can do with one, and it's sort of a "sport" to make the things as hard hitting as possible while still getting them past inspection before use. I've handled a few of these things, and you can beat someone down with one.

Having seen arrows made for these events when they mention the socks and stuff on the ends, that gets my attention a bit because that's not how it's generally done. Typically such arrows are taped up pretty good and aren't going to be lightable, these seem like they were modified, and it makes me wonder if this guy was caught with lighter fluid or something.

What's more, I am not sure what Toranto, Canada's laws are in regards to such things, but a lot of stuff recreationists, LARP players, and medieval duellists do is inherantly illegal in the US, it's just nobody cares for the most part. Long standing renaissance faires that operate consistantly require liscences in a lot of cases. The point being that running around with a broadsword, even one with the edge machined off, can still count as a weapon, especially if the point is still capable of penetration. Also armor is a touchy subject state by state since there are various laws ranging from making it's sale illegal (but owning it is fine), to making both the sale and ownership illegal, or simply making it illegal to wear. This of course having to do with law enforcement and cops not always carrying around AP rounds as a matter of course, body armor giving criminals an edge especially in areas where the police might not have it as a matter of routine. I seem to remember years ago when that motocycle movie "Torque" came out, there was a series of robberies by people wearing heavy stunt bike gear (including back and breast plates designed to protect people if they go skidding accross pavement) some of this high end athletic equipment proving to be pretty resistant to small arms fire and causing calls to regulation (though I don't know how it went) "like other forms of body armor". The point being that while it's not universal in the US to my (admittedly limited) knowlege, and I have no idea about Toronto, there is a chance he was inherantly breaking the law just by wearing that armor, it's just nobody generally cares except in an emergency situation like that when they are trying to get every whack job off the streets they can because of well... riots.

Not saying the police aren't wrong, just saying there are a lot of questions that come up with this story. Personally, if I was police or some kind of security in a situation like that, I would have arrested him and/or seized his stuff too. The reason is simply that it has to do with *MY* safety when doing my job, and in a situation like this I'd rather be yelled at by somebody than risk getting hurt or killed. An anti-police attitude, and argueing about all kinds of detailed inspections and standards is easy when your not the one who has your rear on the line. Truthfully, you should be bloody grateful that you had police officers willing to control a situation like this. The job of a police officer is not safe, but even so it takes a certain kind of dedication to walk into somethng like this, there have been situations where when the going got tough the police decided to either not do their job or all call in sick or something.

-

That said I think the whole G20 situation is absolutly ridiculous. But then again I guess it's because I actually think that a single world goverment is a good thing, and a lot of the paranoia revolves around people believing that is what the G20 is trying to set up. Overall I think they and groups like the Blinderberger group, are not opposed to the idea, I don't think they set their agenda quite that high. In the end these meetings come down to an exchange of ideas between a lot of big countries that will hopefully lead to the formation of such a goverment as peaceful as possible down the road, although a lot of death and bloodshed is doubtlessly going to be nessicary no matter what happens.

In a more practical sense I think that 20 members is too many for this, I think G8 was a lot closer to the size it should be. I understand how a lot of countries don't like the idea of powerful nations making plans that are going to affect them (or forcibly police them) without any say in the matter, however at the same time once you put too many voices around the table things get tied up to the point where you can't accomplish anything coordinated... much like what happened with the UN.

I also feel that some of the nations that are part of the "G" (and have been even when it was smaller) like China represent an almost complete lack of credability, and should also reassure a lot of people that very little is going to be done. On paper the "G" exists to do things like try and ensure fair trade and business practices, and protect things like patents and copyrights that are crucial to many of the world's economies. While China might be a rich nation, being a "robber economy" it's arguably exactly the kind of nation that the "G" is supposed to be coordinating economic action against, rather than letting it have a say on policy. At least for the time being China should have been kicked until things have changed signifigantly... or at least I think so from my understanding of what this is supposed to be about.

Right now a lot of the tension seems to be based on the "one world" thing which strikes me as being silly (personally), and simply people baaawing because their nation doesn't get to be a member despite perhaps having a lot of money.

I suppose it's better than when they had like 33 nations/voices involved in this thing.
 

Macgyvercas

Spice & Wolf Restored!
Feb 19, 2009
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This is probably going to make me sound like an idiot...but what the fuck is G20?
 

Alar

The Stormbringer
Dec 1, 2009
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Just disgusting. Especially the part about all those people being held for nearly an entire day AFTER the fact, people who probably weren't even the least bit involved. If there haven't been lawsuits spoken of yet, there better be.
 

Jack_Uzi

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Mar 18, 2009
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Anyone for a LARP game of cops & robbers? ... Anyone?!

OT: I think the police were too harsh on this guy, but on these kind of events they are on serious mode and probably can't lose face to not take action against him. Don't get me wrong because some people in the police force can take their jobs a bit over the top (to prove themself) but sometimes action must be taken. Think smashing up shops is a good idea? Well, my thought on companies is this: if they lose money, the consumer is going to pay for it sooner or later. So who actually are they trying to make a statement to?
 

CanadianWolverine

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Feb 1, 2008
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Andy Chalk said:
The G20 dog and pony show was obscene, but it also put the police in an extremely difficult situation. They're expected to maintain order as directed by the federal government, respect the rights of legitimate protesters and protect the citizens and property from destruction at the hands of shitbags who see the events as nothing more than a weekend-long excuse to destroy stuff.

And please, spare me the bullshit. Setting police cars on fire and throwing bricks through Starbucks windows isn't protesting. It's smashing shit.

I have no doubt that there were incidents in which the police behaved badly. I also have no doubt that there were incidents in which they were pushed hard but refused to rise to the bait. It was a clusterfuck all around, but laying it at the feet of the "pigs" is completely unfair, unreasonable and ignorant.
You want to call others out for being unfair, unreasonable, and ignorant? Hypocrisy much?

Expanded Police Powers Done In Secret
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/06/28/g20-mcguinty-law644.html?ref=rss

Story Changes To Police "Mislead" aka Lie About Their Directives
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/police-admit-deliberately-misleading-public-on-expanded-security-fence-law/article1622864/

Police Facilitate Illegal & Dangerous Conditions
http://lexgill.com/2010/06/28/urgent-conditions-at-629-eastern-ave-illegal-immoral-dangerous/

Police Abandoned Areas Where Damage To Property Happened
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5G7aCgXtWg

Police Using "Plain Clothes" Officers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XgEI5dCrE

You can definitely lay the blame for this on our police who did not uphold their oaths, subsequently disregarding the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms:
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/const/9.html#anchorsc:7-bo-ga:l_I

Don't try to make excuses for this, the police are doing that spin all on their own.
 

Pebsy

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Jun 12, 2008
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Diligent said:
Pebsy said:
Just to set something clear, I think people fail to realize there have been multiple assasination attempts on many of the leaders in the g20 summit, the police acted in a justified manner to the crowd. For non violent crowds they merely stood back and marked boundries and made very specifically targeted arrests in a large mass of people, and for the anarchist f***heads who went around smashing things and setting car on fire unroll there were small explosions the police useful conventional tactics used worldwide. I fail to see how the police in the g20 summit acted worse then other
similiar situations around the world, In my opinion it was necessary to use tear gas. Arson, vadalism, assault on innocent coca ( commuted by the anarchist group ) were all commuted those are criminal offences

oh btw I live in Toronto, my thought are all from experience
Well you might be singing to a different tune if you were held against your will for 24 hours without cause just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Sure, there were dipshit vandals who deserve to be punished, but preemptive arrests sets a scary precedent.

And what I don't understand is if these people are afraid of assassinations and violence, why not just do a big video conference? That way it doesn't cost a ridiculous 1.2 BILLION in taxpayer money, and there are no threats of riots. Oh wait, they need their photo ops, because that's the only thing that gets accomplished anyway.
unfortunately those are measures set forth worlwide to protect the so called leaders of the free world, and their suck ass desires for photo ops are at no fault to the police. I disagree with the g20 Idea, but I respect the police for putting up with the mess and taking the hits for something that isn't their faults to begin with. The g20 riots were against the leaders, but the only thing in the media is the police taking the blame for following orders
 

Joe Matsuda

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Aug 24, 2009
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socked tipped arrows "dipped in flammable liquid, set alight and, one would assume, fired at police"...

hmmmm...thats not a bad idea...

thanks, Chief Bill Blair :D
 

theSovietConnection

Survivor, VDNKh Station
Jan 14, 2009
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Andy Chalk said:
The G20 dog and pony show was obscene, but it also put the police in an extremely difficult situation. They're expected to maintain order as directed by the federal government, respect the rights of legitimate protesters and protect the citizens and property from destruction at the hands of shitbags who see the events as nothing more than a weekend-long excuse to destroy stuff.

And please, spare me the bullshit. Setting police cars on fire and throwing bricks through Starbucks windows isn't protesting. It's smashing shit.

I have no doubt that there were incidents in which the police behaved badly. I also have no doubt that there were incidents in which they were pushed hard but refused to rise to the bait. It was a clusterfuck all around, but laying it at the feet of the "pigs" is completely unfair, unreasonable and ignorant.
Quoted for fucking truth Andy. You can watch all the videos of the police "abusing protesters" all you want, what the videos don't show is the hour or so beforehand of police getting badmouthed, harassed, pelted with God knows what, who still didn't move.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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zHellas said:
The_root_of_all_evil said:
Feckers. I remember when our LARP group got raided by the Armed Police.

(Don't ask)
I'll ask: What happened and why did you guys get raided?
Ok, basically we were playing Colonial Marines and as the pilot of the dropship (minibus) got lost, we were running a bit overtime (say Midnight, we'd started around 4pm). Knock on the door and there's two guys with automatics (This is Britain remember). We immediately stop and talk to the guys.
Seems that we backed onto one of the areas known for racial...problems, and someone two blocks away had seen us and reported to the police that there were "Training Exercises of people in Army uniform" at this address. Mr Policeman hadn't been told that we'd already informed the Police of what was going on, as we weren't damn stupid, so they had a look around, had a chat and said it was probably time we got home.
We agreed, thanked the officers and went back.

Next day, of course...Enter WORRIED OFFICERS (that weren't there), TERRORISED NEIGHBOURS (two blocks away, the next door ones were watching and laughing) and SOMETHING MUST BE DONE journalists from the local rag.

This was back in the 90s though where you could actually carry a toy pistol without it being TERRORISM.
 

SachielOne

Former Escapecraft Op
Aug 10, 2009
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I like the solution we had here in Canada a few years back: hold the summit at a retreat in the middle of the freaking woods surrounded by army personnel. No protesters were able to get anywhere near the site, and there was no rioting or property damage.
 

rees263

The Lone Wanderer
Jun 4, 2009
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I just don't get why so many members of a G20 (G7 for that matter) nation are so pissed off and feel the need to "protest". Your country has more money than other countries and you're pissed off because? You can't complain about how bad life is because it isn't? Idiots. How many of them even know what they are protesting?

Bad luck for the LARP guy though.
 

randomize4

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Jul 21, 2009
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Wow. It's hilarious to see how things can easily get blown out of proportion. They automatically assume that the arrows would be lit on fire when the guy didn't even have any gasoline or matches on him.

As for the G20 situation, some of them are just using it as an excuse to break stuff, not send a message.
 

Andy Chalk

One Flag, One Fleet, One Cat
Nov 12, 2002
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CanadianWolverine said:
You want to call others out for being unfair, unreasonable, and ignorant? Hypocrisy much?
I'm not making excuses. I'm saying it was justified. People seem to think that they can wade into the middle of a shitstorm and come out unscathed because they're not doing anything wrong and they have inalienable human rights. I say, no. There are limits. And when crowds of black-clad, rock-throwing fucks are rampaging through the streets, destroying whatever they can, the police are justified if they come off the leash a little bit.

People who don't like the idea of spending a day or two in makeshift holding pens with one shitter and cheese sandwiches for lunch should perhaps consider staying away from situations where it's likely to happen.
 

Sougo

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Mar 20, 2010
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Bravo police...
900+ arrests. I do believe thats a Canadian record.