Gabe Newell: Apple Could "Redefine" Consoles

[Jaime_Wolf]

This remains endlessly frustrating to me. There is only one thing they need to do to remain extremely competitive and solve these problems - offer a non-app environment alongside (or behind) the app environment. The average user isn't interested in such things and actually benefits quite a bit from the app model's simplicity and ease of use, so Apple can still siphon wheelbarrows of money out of the app store and can still exercise completely unreasonable control over it, but you handily avoid many of the stifling effects of the app model.

I will never understand why we don't have OSes like this already. The app model offers great accessibility and the old model offers great flexibility. There is no reason not to have both.

These are digital products. You don't have to decide how simple you want the product to be, you can let people themselves decide how simple they want it to be.

 

[Treblaine]

Yeah, but of all the great advice Gaben has given Apple, how often have they actually followed through?

Sure, Steve Jobs has not gone to the big Apple Store in the sky and you could argue that it was his personal opinions that may have prevented Apple getting more explicitly into gaming. But then again Jobs' legacy won't disappear overnight, and I suspect if he said no to console gaming in 2010 then when the option comes in 2012 people will defer back to what their old leader thought was right.

Steve Jobs was shrewd genius, I think it was on reflection probably a good idea to not lock horns with Microsoft, Nintendo and/or Sony for the living-room space, that is a cut-throat market of slim margins and the big three would fight Apple to the death. Or maybe he didn't want to spend his last year in a futile fight that would have been an incredible downer to the end of his career.

I've always disliked Apple. I can appreciate the convenience of their devices, but their just too closed off and way overpriced. My family owns an iMac (you know, the desktop ones) and sure it's convenient, everybody but me just uses it as a portal to the internet, a place to access their email, and a calendar.

But looking at their non-PC devices like iPod, iPhone and iPad you have to realise they are FAR more open than consoles. You can get stuff on the App Store you would NEVER have seen on Xbox Live Arcade or PSN-Store, or at least not without Apple setting the precedent. The difference is, while App Store approval is merely based on a few things your app can't be, XBLA/PSN is more a prescribed what your App MUST be. That difference is important, PSN/XBLA say you must be a game, have achievements, not conflict with this, etc.

iOS Devices really are the middle ground between really open PC systems and really closed console systems, and in terms of capability and marketability they are arguably the best of both. They are not IDEAL for everybody, but some people don't want everything out of a computer that a desktop PC is capable of, they want just a compact streamlined system, as a person who LOVES to use truly open source PC with all the semi-legal emulators and downloading programs I would never have an iOS as my main computing but for a low-mental-work-load portable device or something to just plug into a TV Apple offer the MAXIMUM options for the minimum obfuscation.

My ipod touch was slightly more expensive compared to a 3DS yet I have actually been able to get a far wider variety of better quality games and have not had to spend even CLOSE to $40 per title. Many of them free.

 

[karloss01]

I for one won't be buying a apple console as i dislike their products, all stupidly expensive.

 

[Plinglebob]

Edit: I suspect a bunch of people will say something about how he is a hypocrit, because his company made steam. I believe their name will begin with s.

Screw it, I'll take the bait (though I'm a P, not an S ). Yes it is hypocritical for someone who has done more to wall off and enclose PC to complain about closed systems. Their success and the good they've done in other areas of PC gaming (indie, making digital downloads viable) doesn't stop Steam from being as bad as Xbox Live or iTunes in this one area.

More OT, I doubt Apple will go with the traditional console. The most likely route will be a box under the TV offering out the box a number of features other companies have added to their consoles (iPlayer, Facebook, Film downloads through iTunes etc) and have games as a side bonus just like they did with the iPad/iPhone. The upside is there will finally be a console I won't feel forced to buy.

Also, I can't take Mr Newell seriously when he goes on about closed systems and not because of my rant above. Each time he does it, it just sounds like someone whining because he's not being aloud to do things the way he wants too to make money. I still remember the massive change of heart he had regarding developing for consoles after Sony let him shove Steam onto the PS3.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Screw it, I'll take the bait (though I'm a P, not an S ). Yes it is hypocritical for someone who has done more to wall off and enclose PC to complain about closed systems. Their success and the good they've done in other areas of PC gaming (indie, making digital downloads viable) doesn't stop Steam from being as bad as Xbox Live or iTunes in this one area.

Gabe does actually address this in the full version of the interview.

What about Steam, though? With just a couple wrong moves to tarnish its golden image and thin mustache, couldn?t it also be the next Evil Empire? Newell retorted by noting that Steam?s tools are free to developers, but ?we don?t take anything? if developers decide to peddle their game someplace aside from Steam. He also said that ? if Valve made its own console ? it?d be open to services aside from Steam.

 

[Woodsey]

One force I despise backs another.
When all the horrible things come together, it's a sign of the end times right?

I didn't know you couldn't read.

 

[Jadak]

So... Guy not in Apple talks about things Apple could do, but that Apple has said nothing about itself..

So...This isn't actually news, this might as well just be "guy says random stuff about random stuff".

Fanboy much? Plenty aware of who he is, doesn't change the fact that this is irrelevant speculation on a company that isn't his. It's baseless gossip, not news.

You don't need to own a company to predict something. He has been around long enough to know about the industry and what could happen.

Lot's of things "could" happen. He might as well be talking about Microsoft joining in on the development of a commercial spacecraft. Is it happening? No, but apparently that doesn't matter so long as it comes from a respected person.

 

[Plinglebob]

Screw it, I'll take the bait (though I'm a P, not an S ). Yes it is hypocritical for someone who has done more to wall off and enclose PC to complain about closed systems. Their success and the good they've done in other areas of PC gaming (indie, making digital downloads viable) doesn't stop Steam from being as bad as Xbox Live or iTunes in this one area.

Gabe does actually address this in the full version of the interview.

What about Steam, though? With just a couple wrong moves to tarnish its golden image and thin mustache, couldn?t it also be the next Evil Empire? Newell retorted by noting that Steam?s tools are free to developers, but ?we don?t take anything? if developers decide to peddle their game someplace aside from Steam. He also said that ? if Valve made its own console ? it?d be open to services aside from Steam.

First of all, fair comment regarding his second line about the Valve console and I'll make sure I check out the full interview when I get home as work internet is a bit picky.

However, I would like to quickly counter with this still doesn't make Steam, as it currently stands, different to iTunes or Xbox Live. All 3 of these closed systems sell apps/games/services available elsewhere without the restrictions they put in place. MP3's you can buy outisde of iTunes and plenty of the indie/arcade games on all 3 that are available on the PC without touching Steam. Him saying "?we don?t take anything? if developers decide to peddle their game someplace aside from Steam" is like Microsoft saying that they don't take any money from people who release a PC/PS3 version of an XBLA title.

I would also like to mention again that he complains about Xbox Live being a closed system, but somehow Microsoft have no problems with the Ubisoft's UPlay network running on the Xbox. This again makes it seem like he only complains about closed systems because they won't let him play.

 

[Duol]

I don't understand all this rubbish about Apple launching a new model every year with minor updates
News flash: EVERYONE DOES THIS

I can barely go on any tech site without hearing about a new HTC phone, Samsung etc. And don't get me started on the graphics card manufacturers, every 6 months they bring this revolutionary new card with uber duper power. Then they come with a new version of direct X if you want to keep up.

At least the Apple updates are just adding power, and they provide backwards compatibility with most features.

Not to mention that I tend to find that most 'underpowered' Macs function just as well as superiorly specced PCs

I doubt Apple will just make a games console. They have never been about just doing what everyone else is doing. They will approach it in a different way, maybe not radical, but they will take a model and put some Apple magic into it, allowing a wider audience access too it.

More people playing games is a good thing.

 

[Justice4L]

Apple already made a console years ago and it failed, failed miserably.

I don't see why people who have been with major companies for years and years would suddenly jump ship to a company who might fail in the modern console market like they did years ago.

 

[Treblaine]

You know, I've bought two iPods in my life, and both of them lasted about twenty days. Twenty days, whereas I just gave a cheap supposedly throwaway piece of shit that I've had for years to a relative of mine.

Err, how did they break? Did you ever consider that you were very careless with this rather high specification technology?

For example, the use of glass screens to be hard enough so it isn't worn down rough with a thousand tiny scratches also makes it brittle (so will likely crack if dropped unprotected), this is not a rough-an-tumble device for people who don't care about a scratched screen, this is a delicate high standard device.

I am still struggling to find a device that comes close to filling the same roll as my iPod Touch in its capability and flexibility as such a light and compact computer and media device.

Sure you can say you don't care about the 960x640 scratch resistant screen, don't care about all the apps, don't care about the music quality, don't care about the gyroscope... but that's not more saying iPods aren't suitable for you, not that they are "shit".

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

This again makes it seem like he only complains about closed systems because they won't let him play.

I think it's closer to the fact that he complains about them because they won't let him in. Xbox and Apple still have a monopoly on their consoles. Valve/Steam doesn't create a monopoly, they just have one. As Gabe says, there's no problem with people taking Steam tools and then selling the end-result outside Steam. It's just the greatest used platform.

You couldn't really say Amazon have a closed system on books - but you could on e-books. There's the difference.

 

[Treblaine]

Edit: I suspect a bunch of people will say something about how he is a hypocrit, because his company made steam. I believe their name will begin with s.

Screw it, I'll take the bait (though I'm a P, not an S ). Yes it is hypocritical for someone who has done more to wall off and enclose PC to complain about closed systems.

How the hell is Steam closed?

I can buy from Origin, GoG, or Mojang or whoever.

Steam introduces a really important element in that there is an agreed centralised network for online, updates, achievements, one place to shop for business. Nothing is locked down, you can use any other alternate. It's like those people who say Google has a search monopoly when you are a click away from Bing or Yahoo.

Nothing is walled off, without any fences a part of the PC gaming market has been cultivated and grown where the users can enter and leave at any time with no obligations, there are no subscription fees nor lockdown to proprietary hardware.

PC gaming wouldn't be at the height it is today without steam and it has compromised nothing to get here. DRM is kept to a minimum and with steamworks is given as a rapprochement, in exchange for all the services of the Steam network support.

 

[Treblaine]

You know, I've bought two iPods in my life, and both of them lasted about twenty days. Twenty days, whereas I just gave a cheap supposedly throwaway piece of shit that I've had for years to a relative of mine.

Err, how did they break? Did you ever consider that you were very careless with this rather high specification technology?

For example, the use of glass screens to be hard enough so it isn't worn down rough with a thousand tiny scratches also makes it brittle (so will likely crack if dropped unprotected), this is not a rough-an-tumble device for people who don't care about a scratched screen, this is a delicate high standard device.

I am still struggling to find a device that comes close to filling the same roll as my iPod Touch in its capability and flexibility as such a light and compact computer and media device.

Sure you can say you don't care about the 960x640 scratch resistant screen, don't care about all the apps, don't care about the music quality, don't care about the gyroscope... but that's not more saying iPods aren't suitable for you, not that they are "shit".

I knew this would come up. Someone saying that I obviously didn't take care of them...

Yes, I did take care of them. I take excellent care of all my electronics since if they break, I'm not getting another for a while. You can believe me on this or not. But both of them - the first a Nano, the second a Touch I got a few years later - broke on me within the return date. The Touch gave me particular trouble because on some songs it would skip, like a CD player, from the day I got it. Songs that worked just fine on my computer and my brother's Zune. Speaking of Zunes, I had an 80GB one that I bought off of a friend for fifty bucks. It was about a year old when I got it, and it never froze on me or anything like that. I finally had to get rid of it because the hold button got stuck. The rest of the thing was still A-OK, it's just the hold button that was stuck. This is after about four years of use. Four years. And the iPod was messing up within the return date.

Also, an iTouch is the one thing I wanted most since it came out. It was only this summer that I got one, when I had the means. Do not assume that I just bought it on a whim; you are talking to a person who was very, very disappointed with having to take it back. Not to mention that I had already sunk twenty bucks into a few apps that I'm never, ever going to get back

I heard of this guy who walked out of his house, got struck by lightning and died.

It's clearly really dangerous to ever go outside, someone has to do something about this high rate of people being killed by lightning, NO ONE can walk outside without being struck by lightning. Based on this one extreme example I'd say 100% of people will get struck by lightning within seconds of leaving their home.[/sarc]

The biggest fallacy of people without an education in science or mathematics is the myth that "Coincidences don't happen", they do. The evidence is that iPods are VERY reliable, from the widest study of their use, and this comes from respectable publications like PC Pro. But I have no idea how you obtained that music, did you consider it was in a format that iPod could not play properly? (NO device (save for a PC) can play EVERY audio format) (songs skipping? Sounds like a simple software/encoding problem you CANNOT assume is the fault of the device just because others work. Did you perform any troubleshooting beyond "hurr, works on Zune, it must be apple at fault")
You just seem to have been unlucky. The wider evidence is that iPod and iPhones ARE very reliable and only weasel arguments can be made against them.

And did you demand a replacement (as you were entitled to) and did that work? Or did you give up and just accept a monetary refund or otherwise gladly accept that your low opinion of Apple was confirmed.

ITT: fed up on people bashing Apple for the most trivial shit, while the big stuff goes ignored. Like their cynical prohibition of Flash plugin or apps.

 

[Plinglebob]

Edit: I suspect a bunch of people will say something about how he is a hypocrit, because his company made steam. I believe their name will begin with s.

Screw it, I'll take the bait (though I'm a P, not an S ). Yes it is hypocritical for someone who has done more to wall off and enclose PC to complain about closed systems.

How the hell is Steam closed?

I can buy from Origin, GoG, or Mojang or whoever.

Steam introduces a really important element in that there is an agreed centralised network for online, updates, achievements, one place to shop for business. Nothing is locked down, you can use any other alternate. It's like those people who say Google has a search monopoly when you are a click away from Bing or Yahoo.

Nothing is walled off, without any fences a part of the PC gaming market has been cultivated and grown where the users can enter and leave at any time with no obligations, there are no subscription fees nor lockdown to proprietary hardware.

PC gaming wouldn't be at the height it is today without steam and it has compromised nothing to get here. DRM is kept to a minimum and with steamworks is given as a rapprochement, in exchange for all the services of the Steam network support.

As I explained in my second post, it is closed because you can't run games without it therefore it is locked down. All other PC digital distribution systems allow you buy the game, download it and never again have to run that systems software again unless you uninstall. This is not the case with Steam. If I buy a game with Steamworks from another DD system (or from a brick and morter shop) I must run Steam to play it. When I buy a PC game I expect to be able to play it on a PC without any extra software the same way I expect to be able to play a console game. Also, DRM is still DRM no matter how shiny you make it.

This again makes it seem like he only complains about closed systems because they won't let him play.

I think it's closer to the fact that he complains about them because they won't let him in. Xbox and Apple still have a monopoly on their consoles. Valve/Steam doesn't create a monopoly, they just have one. As Gabe says, there's no problem with people taking Steam tools and then selling the end-result outside Steam. It's just the greatest used platform.

Ok, thats a fair point and I agree with you with that (someone changed my mind on the internet! I feel dirty, and unique) but the encouragement of using Steam and Steamworks does feel like he's doing his best to replicate on PCs the very thing he's against on consoles. Despite its bad initial bad press, I really hope Origin succeeds as EA is the only company that really has the muscle to stop a monopoly.

 

[Fappy]

Sweet. We might finally have a hipster console. If the goofy cloths and the Indy rock doesn't give them away, surely an apple console will. Too bad they won't be able to bring it to Starbucks so they can play Angry Birds: Console Edition while they write their novel.

 

[Vankraken]

Yes lets enter the Console market when you already make an OS and computers that are well known for being platform of choice for computer gaming. /trollface

Seriously apple's design philosophy of release another version every year is ill suited for the long cycle time of consoles. In addition Apple appeals to the casual consumer (go into an Apple store and you will see a lot of elderly people, middle aged moms, and families) and why would you want to get into a casual gamer war against Nintendo?

 

[Something Amyss]

"You asked for it, now you can talk to other players WHILE playing the game. Only in iConsole2S!"

"Did someone say MULTIPLAYER? Now you can play two-player by passing the controller to a secnod player! multi-controller multiplayer available fall 2013...."

 

[ike42]

I don't know. Nintendo's doing the casual thing well enough, so Apple would be competing against a company that probably knows what they're doing. If Apple does create a console, I would bet that an updated version would be made a year later. It's just what they do; not understanding longevity.

If they can sell an annual tablet, why not an annual game system?

Don't take me as being "pro apple," I'm more "the consumers would buy it if Apple took a crap in a bag and put out "iTurd" in yearly iterations.

Didn't they already prove this to be true with the iphone 4s?

OT: I don't know if this would fly. I mean, iBots would buy it, but apple has historically been shit for games. It would likely devolve into non-serious games like you get on their mobile devices which just can't prop up a console. Also, I don't see a lot of the big studios being willing to submit to the draconian requirements for profit that Apple demands. Can you imagine Activision willingly giving up profit share?

 

[GonzoGamer]

Gods forbid.
The only thing more obnoxious than an MS or Sony fanboy is an Apple fanboy.

It would probably overprice itself out of the market after a couple of years like the neo-geo. If it didn't, we could at least find solace in the fact that every time apple updates a product, they tend to add features rather than take them away...Sony.