Gabe Newell thinks Windows 8 will be a catastrophe?

matrix3509

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So, link first, then my two cents:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/...8-catastrophe-driving-valve-to-embrace-linux/

The TL;DR version:

Basically Newell is saying that the way Microsoft is closing off the operating system will be disastrous for many OEMs, as well as for services like Steam. Also, this is a main reason why Valve has started embracing Linux.

Anyways, while Newell's remarks sound much like his ignorant words regarding the PS3 a few years ago, and I think he is exaggerating regarding what the OS's effect on the industry will be, I think he does have somewhat of a point. Microsoft has demonstrated that they have no fucking clue how to effectively compete in the digital distribution market. Their incompetence with XBLA, Games on Demand, and GFWL serve as proof of this. I don't think its beneath Microsoft to just close off the system completely and force everyone to use some sort of integrated GFWL in their next operating system. And before anyone accuses me of hating on Microsoft, I'm not saying it will definitely happen, I'm saying that it isn't an impossibility. Microsoft has fully demonstrated in the past (multiple times I might add) just how anti-consumer it can be, and once you get stung by those practices, it hard to forget it.
 

Vegosiux

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Well it fits the pattern.

Windows releases go like this: Good (3.11), shit (95), good (98), shit (Me), good (XP), shit (Vista), good (7)...
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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Vegosiux said:
Well it fits the pattern.

Windows releases go like this: Good (3.11), shit (95), good (98), shit (Me), good (XP), shit (Vista), good (7)...
That pattern is wrong. ME and Vista sucked, but 95 was awesome. Also, the first release of 98 sucked -- that's why Microsoft made 98SE. It also leaves out Windows 2000 and everything before 3.1.

That said, I can see this happening. It's microsoft. Anti-competitive practices are in their blood.
 

WoW Killer

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I'm still using XP. And I'm still waiting for a valid reason to use anything else. Will there be any point to 8? Like does do anything XP doesn't that would justify the massive system hogging that would accompany it?
 

Xpheyel

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I'm having trouble making the leap here, regular plain-jane Windows 8 will still let you install Windows x86/64 applications, right? I understand that Windows RT (for ARM processors) will be locked to the store. Not that that's a great sign, and they're locking down gadgets. As long as you can install Steam and make a tile for it in the Pretend-I-Have-A-Touchscreeen UI, you should be good to go.

I can't find any context beyond referencing the loss of OEMs, or why Windows 8 would be worse for them versus whatever. Except for the possibility of the OS itself being reviled to the extent that people stop buying PCs. There is a rumor on Tom's Hardware [http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Windows-RT-Windows-8-Licensing-Supply-Chain-OEM,16267.html] that the OEM licensing fee is $80 for Windows 8 + Office 2013. I don't know if that's an increase relative to Windows 7 though.
 

evilneko

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Jun 16, 2011
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matrix3509 said:
So, link first, then my two cents:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/...8-catastrophe-driving-valve-to-embrace-linux/

The TL;DR version:

Basically Newell is saying that the way Microsoft is closing off the operating system will be disastrous for many OEMs, as well as for services like Steam. Also, this is a main reason why Valve has started embracing Linux.

Anyways, while Newell's remarks sound much like his ignorant words regarding the PS3 a few years ago, and I think he is exaggerating regarding what the OS's effect on the industry will be, I think he does have somewhat of a point. Microsoft has demonstrated that they have no fucking clue how to effectively compete in the digital distribution market. Their incompetence with XBLA, Games on Demand, and GFWL serve as proof of this. I don't think its beneath Microsoft to just close off the system completely and force everyone to use some sort of integrated GFWL in their next operating system. And before anyone accuses me of hating on Microsoft, I'm not saying it will definitely happen, I'm saying that it isn't an impossibility. Microsoft has fully demonstrated in the past (multiple times I might add) just how anti-consumer it can be, and once you get stung by those practices, it hard to forget it.
That article's pretty short on details on what exactly Newell doesn't like. It's not like Steam is not going to work on Windows 8. Newell is just way off base here. There will be no mass migration to linux. At worst, Win 8 will only slowly take over the market, and we'll end up with four Windows operating systems hanging around in significant numbers--but 8 will definitely grow, since new machines will have it.

And while it may cause a few tantrums at first, 8 is not radically different enough from 7, people will realize that the daily experience with 8 is extremely similar to that of 7 and accept it.

From some quick googling, I get the impression Newell is simply afraid of competition from Microsoft.

Posted from my Windows 8 laptop. ;)
 

evilneko

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WoW Killer said:
I'm still using XP. And I'm still waiting for a valid reason to use anything else. Will there be any point to 8? Like does do anything XP doesn't that would justify the massive system hogging that would accompany it?
Well, DX10+. Eventually, more games will require it.

Performance wise, 8 and XP are virtually identical. So no "massive system hogging" here.

8 improves on some UI elements that Vista fucked up and weren't fixed yet in 7. For instance, much easier to get to device manager, control panel, and other administrative controls in 8 than it was previously. Windows Explorer (the file manager, not the browser) is improved as well, not that I use it that much anyway (Q-Dir FOREVER!).

And if you don't like Metro, you can always go grab ClassicShell. ;)
 

ohnoitsabear

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evilneko said:
From some quick googling, I get the impression Newell is simply afraid of competition from Microsoft.
From just what I've read in this article, it's less of competition from Microsoft, and more Microsoft having competition not because they offer a better service, but because they can constantly shove their service down your throat and make it harder to use another service, just because they own Windows. Competition is good, but unfair competition is anything but.
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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ohnoitsabear said:
evilneko said:
From some quick googling, I get the impression Newell is simply afraid of competition from Microsoft.
From just what I've read in this article, it's less of competition from Microsoft, and more Microsoft having competition not because they offer a better service, but because they can constantly shove their service down your throat and make it harder to use another service, just because they own Windows. Competition is good, but unfair competition is anything but.
Right. Newell is afraid of this turning into the old Netscape V. Microsoft battle all over again.
 

WoW Killer

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evilneko said:
Well, DX10+. Eventually, more games will require it.
That's my fear; at some point I'll be forced to switch :/

It might just be all the years I spent with shitty systems like 98 and ME (spit), but I'm reluctant to give up XP because I've used it for ages and it's always... worked, y'know?

Captcha: higgs boson. Maybe. In fact, quite probably.
 

sanquin

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Well, I know windows 7 and also 8 when it comes out, supports more than 3 gig ram. That useful for the more high-end games. With 7 my system does run a bit faster than with XP pro. And indeed DX11, though currently there are very few games that make proper use of it. Other than that, I don't see a real reason to switch over to 7 or 8 yet either. Maybe once games stop supporting XP completely though.

I personally got 7 in a larger computer upgrade, since I wanted to get 8 gig RAM. I'm not disappointed with it, but XP did have a better UI in some places.
 

evilneko

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WoW Killer said:
evilneko said:
Well, DX10+. Eventually, more games will require it.
That's my fear; at some point I'll be forced to switch :/

It might just be all the years I spent with shitty systems like 98 and ME (spit), but I'm reluctant to give up XP because I've used it for ages and it's always... worked, y'know?

Captcha: higgs boson. Maybe. In fact, quite probably.
Time marches on. I would love to have held on to Windows 2000. I run XP64 on my desktop. During the weeks I've had 8 on my laptop though, I've found no real reason to fear the update. It just isn't as annoying as Vista or 7.

sanquin said:
Well, I know windows 7 and also 8 when it comes out, supports more than 3 gig ram. That useful for the more high-end games. With 7 my system does run a bit faster than with XP pro. And indeed DX11, though currently there are very few games that make proper use of it. Other than that, I don't see a real reason to switch over to 7 or 8 yet either. Maybe once games stop supporting XP completely though.

I personally got 7 in a larger computer upgrade, since I wanted to get 8 gig RAM. I'm not disappointed with it, but XP did have a better UI in some places.
Psst. There's a 64 bit version of XP too. ;)
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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sanquin said:
evilneko said:
Psst. There's a 64 bit version of XP too. ;)
Oh right, it does. x.x
It's pretty terrible from what I've heard, though. The 64 bit version was less a fully supported operating system and more like a 64 bit experiment using XP as a platform.
 

Wayneguard

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WoW Killer said:
I'm still using XP. And I'm still waiting for a valid reason to use anything else. Will there be any point to 8? Like does do anything XP doesn't that would justify the massive system hogging that would accompany it?
I'm wishing that I had stuck with XP like you have. At the time, I lambasted it for its failings... how little did I realize the horror that was to come. I dare anyone to try and get kotor 2 to work on windows 7.
 

allinwonder

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Everyone is following Apple's suit: be as closed as possible.

Basically Apple is ruining / has ruined the PC industry, just like COD is ruining / has ruined the gaming industry.
 

zehydra

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Owyn_Merrilin said:
Vegosiux said:
Well it fits the pattern.

Windows releases go like this: Good (3.11), shit (95), good (98), shit (Me), good (XP), shit (Vista), good (7)...
That pattern is wrong. ME and Vista sucked, but 95 was awesome. Also, the first release of 98 sucked -- that's why Microsoft made 98SE. It also leaves out Windows 2000 and everything before 3.1.

That said, I can see this happening. It's microsoft. Anti-competitive practices are in their blood.
Vista wasn't terrible once they got the updates running (fixed bugs etc). People praise 7, but there isn't a whole lot of substantial difference between the two (aside from the toolbar).
 

zehydra

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allinwonder said:
Everyone is following Apple's suit: be as closed as possible.

Basically Apple is ruining / has ruined the PC industry, just like COD is ruining / has ruined the gaming industry.
Nah, I don't think COD is ruining the gaming industry when the game itself has a "hatebase" (like a negative fanbase), kinda like Rebecca Black.