Game Industry's Creativity is Still Immature, Says Miyamoto

Meinos Kaen

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Jun 17, 2009
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Huuuu, wait. Are we really going to take lessons on creativity from someone that has so many successful franchises and series at his disposals to use but he only always bets on the usual two horses? *looks at Metroid and Starfox* Yes, I agree that most developers nowadays are trying to up each other on the usual same grounds, trying to put shooter elements anywhere -see Dead Space 3 for bad effects- and ignoring other genres -which indies are taking up by storm- but creativity is also feeling confident in making new IPs or making new games for your own ones that you have left sitting in the dust for years.

See what happened to Capcom, Miyamoto. You sure you shouldn't be taking lessons in creativity too?
 

Vigormortis

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Miyamoto was disappointed with the violent showcase presented at E3 this year, stating the industry suffers from creative immaturity
Well there's your problem Mr. Miyamoto. Never, never, ever look to E3 as a sampling of what todays modern gaming industry has to offer.

It's like judging the entire worldwide automotive industry by watching a single Nascar race.
 

Sniper Team 4

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Agreed, Mr. Miyamoto. Might I suggest that you start leading by example too, please? I would love to play a Zelda game where you play as Zelda. Perhaps if Nintendo starts stepping out of their comfort zone with their franchises, Sony and Microsoft will do the same. It would be nice to play a different style of game, because I must admit that I saw only three games this year at E3 that caught my interest.
 

Fasckira

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Oct 22, 2009
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Complains about lack of creativity in the market, continues to release sequel after sequel of the same game with minor changes. Nice one.

Asinine observations aside, I'd say its not so much the market provider's fault as it is the market consumer's fault - as a group, we devour games that conform, that are the same as what we're used to, and take great time to adapt to new ideas. On a singular level, we're happy to chatter on about obscure games and what not but ultimately our money goes to the things we know will be good.
 

Dragonbums

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May 9, 2013
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Sigmund Av Volsung said:
Games industry is still young. Reference Movies and Comic Books all you want, but they have 60+ years of development, movies having been around for almost a century by now.

I will say that whilst I do agree with Shigeru, the whole "everything was same-y" statement might've been hypocritical from company who haven't released a new IP for 13 years up until Splatoon.

I also think he'd be the perfect person to play Spec Ops The Line. He's fed up with all that violence and immaturity, and that game is agreeing with him wholeheartedly. Someone at Nintendo needs to introduce him to that game.
I guess Nintendogs, Wii fit, pushmo, Dillons rolling western, Elite beat agents, etc. Didn't count as new IP? Or are we talking about ones you care about?
 

InsanityRequiem

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Dragonbums said:
Sigmund Av Volsung said:
Games industry is still young. Reference Movies and Comic Books all you want, but they have 60+ years of development, movies having been around for almost a century by now.

I will say that whilst I do agree with Shigeru, the whole "everything was same-y" statement might've been hypocritical from company who haven't released a new IP for 13 years up until Splatoon.

I also think he'd be the perfect person to play Spec Ops The Line. He's fed up with all that violence and immaturity, and that game is agreeing with him wholeheartedly. Someone at Nintendo needs to introduce him to that game.
I guess Nintendogs, Wii fit, pushmo, Dillons rolling western, Elite beat agents, etc. Didn't count as new IP? Or are we talking about ones you care about?
Best to remember, Dragon, that a lot of people think character IP are the only IP that matters. When there's also gameplay IPs, UI IPs, controller IPs, and more that most people don't account for. Which is sad really. Heck, can just look at Mario 64, Mario Sunshine, and Mario Galaxy to see Nintendo's use of IP. Characters? Same, but gameplay, UI, and how the games control are all different. The Miis are a different IP as well, but not one (If any at all) will say it is, or say the Xbox Live avatars came first. Or the difference between the Metroid games in how they play, their genres, and such are different as well. Original Metroid being a side scrolling puzzle adventure, while Prime was a first person shooter with puzzles and more, and Metroid M? was their attempt at giving one of their games to a western(ish) developer.

Nintendo does make new IPs, but their development style means characters are secondary to everything else. Heck, the developers of Splatoon laid it out. Gameplay, controls, and visual design come before characters. While everyone else seems to do characters first, then setting, then gameplay.
 

DrOswald

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Sigmund Av Volsung said:
I will say that whilst I do agree with Shigeru, the whole "everything was same-y" statement might've been hypocritical from company who haven't released a new IP for 13 years up until Splatoon.
WarioWare, Eternal Darkness, Xenoblade Chronicles, Baten Kaitos, Pandora?s Tower, The Last Story, Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Wii Play, Soma Bringer, Legend of Starfy, Elite Beat Agents, Rhythm Heaven, Fluidity, Endless Ocean, Chibi Robo... the list goes on.
 

Hairless Mammoth

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The market is viewed as immature because the Dude-Bro shooters still sell millions. That phenomenon has been getting worse since Hollywood has surrendered some of the 12- 25 year old male market share over to the video games industry, making up for it by green lighting more romcoms and getting more female movie goers to spend money.[footnote]Someone even coined a term for it a couple years ago. I thought it was called the xbox factor but that only rings up ten million links talking about the X-factor and a few about MS's business plans for the 360.[/footnote] It doesn't help that the games without shooter mechanics still rely on assassination style kills and general bloodletting to appeal the broadest market. As long as there is a huge market, that demographic will be a stereotype of its entire industry and its customers. For example, SUVs are seen as a way for a soccer mom to look tough and successful while being able to carry a lot of kids without driving a minivan(lotta dads hate driving minivans, too), where as people who really make use of their SUVs want a vehicle that can haul a good amount of cargo (covered) or 4-7 more people, occasionally tow trailers and might have 4 wheel drive for sticky situations.

Really Nintendo does have some of the most mature messages underlining its games that are really simple and kiddie looking on the surface. Pikmin is all about gathering willing slaves to do heavy labor and fight to the death for their masters. Pikmin 2, especially late-game, even made their efforts purely to feed greed. Majora's Mask had the player coming across dead and dying characters and assuming their likenesses, giving those characters' friends and families 2-3 more days to be with their loved one and giving the dead comfort knowing they leave the world without unfinished business. There's even the theory that Link is dead and the entire game is his final vision/dream. (Which, if Escapist is posting more Game Theory videos, you will soon be able view without even leaving the site.) Twilight Princess might not have touched on the implications as much as it could have, but it did go out of its way to kill the queen Zora showing that the villain is serious enough to leave at least one boy motherless. Metroid is much simpler yet its back story is basically about a woman who fights a pirate organization the made her an orphan twice over and will continue to make orphans if she doesn't intervene.

Maybe that's the angle Miyamoto it coming from. His company's games might have cartoonish violence on the outside, but many of Big N's works have a deeper meaning to their violence than just space marines going "hughh, enemies spotted. Shoot. Kill. Remove spine with Spine Ripper[sup]TM[/sup] DLC." Nintendo sure doesn't make games where 8 or more gruff commandos run out into the open, die in a storm of bullets and blood, then respawn to do it over again for the entertainment of guys drinking Mountain Dew "Game Fuel" and eating Doritos with the Master Chief emblazoned on the bag. Hopefully (and probably), this is just Miyamoto expressing opinion of what he saw at just E3 and we don't find 4-Kids level censorship with the next Star Fox, Fire Emblem, Zelda, or Metroid titles.
 

Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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So hes comparing gaming to movies and comics. Okay. gaming is what, 30 years old. lets see where movies were when they were 30 years old. Oh, right, slapstick comedy. How about comics then? war propaganda and sexism. Yeah, id say games are much better off in comparison.
 

Casual Shinji

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Jim Trailerpark said:
The writing is still at B level movies, the characterization and pacing is mediocre at best in order to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
Guess what? You can say the very same thing about movies when compared to books. A media that has to focus on more aspects than another form of media is obviously going to have to spread itself more thinly. Unlike movies and books, games have to also focus on gameplay and the overall interactivity of the experience, on top of writing, characterisation, (voice) acting, visual design, sound design, musical score etc.
 

makano

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This is what is wrong with the games industry, every game now has to be the equivalent of Shakespeare where is the fun. I am so sure in a few years we will only have "real" characters where we have to go through there boring lives(brushing your teeth in game anyone?).

Why in all the 9 worlds would you want a game that simulates what you do when you get up in the morning(i am looking at you Heavy Rain).

What happened to blowing up space Nazis with a rocket launcher while driving a car at the speed of light?. Why should i have to care about the characters moral baggage?
 
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Jim Trailerpark said:
The writing is still at B level movies, the characterization and pacing is mediocre at best in order to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
This is only true if you look at overplayed mainstream garbage like CoD. There are vast numbers of games that have objectively good writing, pacing, and characterization.

OT:
I'll admit, he has a point in terms of AAA games. Indie games on the other hand are still exploring most possible video game ideas.

Also I feel the need to be "that guy" and point out that Nintendo is the last one that should be complaining about the lack of new aesthetics. Sure, they're very innovative in terms of gameplay, but that isn't what he's talking about here.
 

xaszatm

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Sep 4, 2010
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Sir Thomas Sean Connery said:
Jim Trailerpark said:
The writing is still at B level movies, the characterization and pacing is mediocre at best in order to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
This is only true if you look at overplayed mainstream garbage like CoD. There are vast numbers of games that have objectively good writing, pacing, and characterization.

OT:
I'll admit, he has a point in terms of AAA games. Indie games on the other hand are still exploring most possible video game ideas.

Also I feel the need to be "that guy" and point out that Nintendo is the last one that should be complaining about the lack of new aesthetics. Sure, they're very innovative in terms of gameplay, but that isn't what he's talking about here.
And to be "that guy" in his full statement, he includes Nintendo in his "creatively immature" quote. So they are acknowledging that they are part of the problem.
 

Guffe

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TheSniperFan said:
Sigmund Av Volsung said:
[...]
I will say that whilst I do agree with Shigeru, the whole "everything was same-y" statement might've been hypocritical from company who haven't released a new IP for 13 years up until Splatoon.
[...]
This was also my first thought.
He's not necessarily right though. If you look at gaming as a whole, which includes indies and mods, you'll find much more creativity. It's just that the big boys are all stuck where they are now.
Yeah if we count indies there are a lot out there, but E3 is a playground for the bigboys (as sigmund said in a later post) and they don't get too much time out in the marketing area.
That's what the internet is good for, some indie games get popular by, for example, someone on this site mentioning a game, another user sees the post, tries the game, goes to the next website and so on!

As for Nintendo not releasing new good IPs?
I have to disagree :p
But anyone can say what they want, and games I like might not be your cup of tea
Examples: Xenoblade, LastStory, MuramasaTheDemonBlade, RedSteel, NintendoLand, ZombiU, Splatoon... and those are WiiU/Wii era games of the top of my head, the GameCube was also a great console and I don't own a (3)DS which supposedly has a lot of good games :)

And as most people have said, the games industry is young, and who knows what future technology will bring to us?! :D
 

VVThoughtBox

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I believe the people are over analyzing Miyamoto's statements and taking it too seriously. There's nothing wrong with admitting that the game industry's creativity is immature and that it's filled with violent shooters. Instead of blaming a group of people like the dude bros for purchasing and playing FPS military shooters, we should just accept criticism and strive to to make games better. I also don't believe that making indie games or making the video games art will do anything to get rid of this criticism. It's up to the content creator to decide if they want to improve themselves, or not.
 

MrMan999

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Hairless Mammoth said:
The market is viewed as immature because the Dude-Bro shooters still sell millions. That phenomenon has been getting worse since Hollywood has surrendered some of the 12- 25 year old male market share over to the video games industry, making up for it by green lighting more romcoms and getting more female movie goers to spend money.[footnote]Someone even coined a term for it a couple years ago. I thought it was called the xbox factor but that only rings up ten million links talking about the X-factor and a few about MS's business plans for the 360.[/footnote] It doesn't help that the games without shooter mechanics still rely on assassination style kills and general bloodletting to appeal the broadest market. As long as there is a huge market, that demographic will be a stereotype of its entire industry and its customers. For example, SUVs are seen as a way for a soccer mom to look tough and successful while being able to carry a lot of kids without driving a minivan(lotta dads hate driving minivans, too), where as people who really make use of their SUVs want a vehicle that can haul a good amount of cargo (covered) or 4-7 more people, occasionally tow trailers and might have 4 wheel drive for sticky situations.

Really Nintendo does have some of the most mature messages underlining its games that are really simple and kiddie looking on the surface. Pikmin is all about gathering willing slaves to do heavy labor and fight to the death for their masters. Pikmin 2, especially late-game, even made their efforts purely to feed greed. Majora's Mask had the player coming across dead and dying characters and assuming their likenesses, giving those characters' friends and families 2-3 more days to be with their loved one and giving the dead comfort knowing they leave the world without unfinished business. There's even the theory that Link is dead and the entire game is his final vision/dream. (Which, if Escapist is posting more Game Theory videos, you will soon be able view without even leaving the site.) Twilight Princess might not have touched on the implications as much as it could have, but it did go out of its way to kill the queen Zora showing that the villain is serious enough to leave at least one boy motherless. Metroid is much simpler yet its back story is basically about a woman who fights a pirate organization the made her an orphan twice over and will continue to make orphans if she doesn't intervene.

Maybe that's the angle Miyamoto it coming from. His company's games might have cartoonish violence on the outside, but many of Big N's works have a deeper meaning to their violence than just space marines going "hughh, enemies spotted. Shoot. Kill. Remove spine with Spine Ripper[sup]TM[/sup] DLC." Nintendo sure doesn't make games where 8 or more gruff commandos run out into the open, die in a storm of bullets and blood, then respawn to do it over again for the entertainment of guys drinking Mountain Dew "Game Fuel" and eating Doritos with the Master Chief emblazoned on the bag. Hopefully (and probably), this is just Miyamoto expressing opinion of what he saw at just E3 and we don't find 4-Kids level censorship with the next Star Fox, Fire Emblem, Zelda, or Metroid titles.
Nintendo can be surprisingly mature when they want to be. (Hell, just look at Eternal Darkness). Theres this common misconception that Nintendo games are "kiddy". If anything I'd compare them more to Pixar. Their games may have a cartoonish aesthetic most of the time, but just below the surface is a surprisingly mature product.
 

Magmarock

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Mr. Miyamoto, I half agree while also disagreeing with that statement. I wouldn't say that creativity is still immature but that E3 and the AAA industry is.

People talk about mature games as if they don't exists when the truth is, they have existed for a while. Both in ideas, themes and game play. Some are old games from a different era while others are indie, but both are becoming forgotten over time.

Let's take Nintendo for example. many consider Nintendo to be the Disney of the Games industry, (myself included) and just like Disney people seem to think that these companies only produce ?family friendly? entertainment, but if you take a deeper look you'll find that there's a lot more maturity there.

What do you think is the most mature game Nintendo have ever made. What do you think is the most mature game that Miyamoto has ever produced.

In my opinion, Majora's Mask