Game of Thrones: Adaptation Decay

[TsunamiWombat]

I know i'm going to get flack for this but:

Spoiler

The Cersei/Jaime sex scene in the sept didn't seem like rape to me. YES, I KNOW IT WAS. It definitely was. She said NO. So it WAS. No means No always and forever, etc. However, in the scene, she didn't exactly fight real hard. IDK what the hell was going on really. She's saying 'no stop' but she's not biting or kicking him, just muttering and breathing heavily. I'm not sure what to make of it. It was a very bad scene.

It's still all kinds of fucked up because 1. She said no 2. Their dead son is right there. I can only assume they aren't making Jaime the Hero he is in the books after this. Maybe they even plan to kill him off.

 

[hazabaza1]

how is "Reek" different?

that particular story thread disturbed me on some fundamental level..and I don't even read the books OR watch the show

As of right now, my main issue is with
A) Where Reek first appears as Reek
and B) What Reek looks like.

In the book Reek essentially only existed for Ramasay so he could be a whipping ***** (quite literally). If something annoyed Ramsay he'd go over and beat the shit out of Reek and... that was about the extent of their relationship. Once Roose showed up things changed a little bit. In the show so far it seems like Reek's been something of a squire, rather than anything else. He's allowed out with Ramsay and no other guards, and he's managing little bits and bobs.

As for the appearance... let's just say that this is a sketch of what Reek is described as:

Whereas show-Reek is just Theon with hair that's a bit greasier, a bit longer and a stutter.

That being said it is only into the third episode so there's time to develop but it seems like they're trying too hard to make a central character look like a TV show star (that is, relatively attractive and not the broken shell of a person) rather than sticking with the original story.

 

[K12]

By the comic standards I still got 1 complain in this saeson:

1 - The continous portrayal of Stannis as a villain

2 - That scene.

How many do you all have left?

Number 1 is one of my main problems with the TV series over all. They've done it with a few characters, The Thenns, Xaro Xhoan Daxos etc. but Stannis is the one that might end up making things a bit difficult to swallow later on.

He's not a bad guy, he's just very uncompromising and a little too keen to burn people alive... hell we've all been there.

 

[balladbird]

how is "Reek" different?

that particular story thread disturbed me on some fundamental level..and I don't even read the books OR watch the show

As of right now, my main issue is with
A) Where Reek first appears as Reek
and B) What Reek looks like.

In the book Reek essentially only existed for Ramasay so he could be a whipping ***** (quite literally). If something annoyed Ramsay he'd go over and beat the shit out of Reek and... that was about the extent of their relationship. Once Roose showed up things changed a little bit. In the show so far it seems like Reek's been something of a squire, rather than anything else. He's allowed out with Ramsay and no other guards, and he's managing little bits and bobs.

As for the appearance... let's just say that this is a sketch of what Reek is described as:

Whereas show-Reek is just Theon with hair that's a bit greasier, a bit longer and a stutter.

That being said it is only into the third episode so there's time to develop but it seems like they're trying too hard to make a central character look like a TV show star (that is, relatively attractive and not the broken shell of a person) rather than sticking with the original story.

Reek's appearance/portrayal is more about pragmatism than anything, though. In a slightly more extreme version of the reason why they reduced the size of the Hound's burn. Making Theon as emaciated as Reek was described as would require special effects that, on their budget, would look cheesy at best and be impossible at worst. Likewise, the prosthetic and makeup needed to properly disfigure him would be both labor-intensive and hard to act in.

Tragically, the only way we could see a faithfully rendered Reek would be if the series had been Peter Jackson budgeted movies... since it'd basically be Gollum all over again. XD

I still don't understand where the shitstorm for the rape scene came from, leaving aside legitimate complains that it makes Jaime look quite different than in the books, of course. A lot of people I've seen complaining are doing it because of the fact that there is rape, and not because it changes the way we see a certain character.

My personal aggravation with the scene is that it takes Jaime out of character, as you said, but I can understand those who abhor the addition of rape on principle, as well.

It ties into what TV tropes calls "Rape is the new dead parents." Throwing rape into a work for the sake of shock value is a popular trend in "edgy" media these days, but is generally rightfully ridiculed for being bad writing.

 

[Grahav]

By the comic standards I still got 1 complain in this saeson:

1 - The continous portrayal of Stannis as a villain

2 - That scene.

How many do you all have left?

Number 1 is one of my main problems with the TV series over all. They've done it with a few characters, The Thenns, Xaro Xhoan Daxos etc. but Stannis is the one that might end up making things a bit difficult to swallow later on.

He's not a bad guy, he's just very uncompromising and a little too keen to burn people alive... hell we've all been there.

He looks like a straw representation of right wing politicians done by bad left wing propaganda.

 

[Vault101]

snip

huh...I'm kinda glad *shudder*

as I said I haven't read/watched eather but a sort of twisted "relationship"...Reek becoming a servant is an interesting angle

 

[hazabaza1]

snip

huh...I'm kinda glad *shudder*

as I said I haven't read/watched eather but a sort of twisted "relationship"...Reek becoming a servant is an interesting angle

I'll admit even the slight shift in power is an interesting approach and it's going to be fun to watch, but when

Spoiler: Spoilers for book 5-2

"Reek" escapes with Jeyne and Theon takes back his name it's going to run the risk of feeling like Theon had a lot less agency in his own escape.

But hey that's like 3 seasons away so I'll complain if/when that time arrives.

 

[JMac85]

1 - The continous portrayal of Stannis as a villain

I'm apparently one of the rare book readers who never drank the "Mannis" kool-aid, so I don't really feel like his characterization in the show differs from the books any more than the other characters have.

Spoiler

Seriously, I flat out don't like him. Not that I think he's a bad character, this series is full of characters I hate but love to read about. Everyone says he's some big damn hero because he's so stern and unyielding in his sense of order and justice, but he comes off to me as unreasonable and heartless. Take his defining moment when he goes to the Wall to aid the Night's Watch and fend off Mance and the Wildlings. Stannis lovers harp on and on about how that was so awesome, but the aftermath leaves a foul taste in my mouth. He tries to boss around Jon and the Watch (demanding castles and threatening Jon if he didn't submit), subjugates the non-combatant Wildling refugees who stayed behind because they had nowhere else to go (forcing them to burn effigies of their gods for safe passage through the Wall) and overall continues to listen to that witch Melisandre and buy into that Azor Ahai bollocks. Really, it's Melisandre and her cult of R'hllor I hate. If Stannis would kick that ***** to the curb and listen to Davos, I'd like him a lot better.

 

[Smertnik]

There's a very simple solution - just don't watch the screen adaptation if you've read the novels. I don't get why people do it anyway. It's one thing if you don't want to read the original material or hate the writing style, but otherwise why bother with adaptations? You're just asking to get angry and/or disappointed.

 

[Exterminas]

I know i'm going to get flack for this but:

Spoiler

The Cersei/Jaime sex scene in the sept didn't seem like rape to me. YES, I KNOW IT WAS. It definitely was. She said NO. So it WAS. No means No always and forever, etc. However, in the scene, she didn't exactly fight real hard. IDK what the hell was going on really. She's saying 'no stop' but she's not biting or kicking him, just muttering and breathing heavily. I'm not sure what to make of it. It was a very bad scene.

It's still all kinds of fucked up because 1. She said no 2. Their dead son is right there. I can only assume they aren't making Jaime the Hero he is in the books after this. Maybe they even plan to kill him off.

I felt the same, really. If that No really meant no, she could have just fought harder or threatened to shout for help.
Granted, it was a scene of dubious consent and morality, but quite frankly, once you enter the territory of incestuous sex near your son's corpse, you might have to adjust your moral standards a wee bit.

Calling it rape seems too crass to me. That scene where the peasants dragged Sansa into the building was rape. If you call the Jaime/Cersei-Thing rape too you are blurring several huge differences in the scene.

Trust me, I don't feel well advocating this point, since talking about anything that someone calls rape tends to stir a shitstorm on the internet these days, but in this case I don't think that No was more than 40% sincere.

 

[Imre Csete]

The hardest part about having read the books is not to spoil the show for those who did not.
For example my brother was watching the wedding scene in episode 2 and he told me: "I wish this wedding would end the same way as the wedding of that guy from Winterfell."
And i was like MUST NOT SPOIL arrggh. It was difficult.

You can always play mindgames with them if you get tired of that. I do.

I refuse to tell anything about characters, so they just assume their favourites will meet certain death eventually, as they feared. All I do is just smile deviously and not speak a word.

 

[Grahav]

1 - The continous portrayal of Stannis as a villain

I'm apparently one of the rare book readers who never drank the "Mannis" kool-aid, so I don't really feel like his characterization in the show differs from the books any more than the other characters have.

Spoiler

Seriously, I flat out don't like him. Not that I think he's a bad character, this series is full of characters I hate but love to read about. Everyone says he's some big damn hero because he's so stern and unyielding in his sense of order and justice, but he comes off to me as unreasonable and heartless. Take his defining moment when he goes to the Wall to aid the Night's Watch and fend off Mance and the Wildlings. Stannis lovers harp on and on about how that was so awesome, but the aftermath leaves a foul taste in my mouth. He tries to boss around Jon and the Watch (demanding castles and threatening Jon if he didn't submit), subjugates the non-combatant Wildling refugees who stayed behind because they had nowhere else to go (forcing them to burn effigies of their gods for safe passage through the Wall) and overall continues to listen to that witch Melisandre and buy into that Azor Ahai bollocks. Really, it's Melisandre and her cult of R'hllor I hate. If Stannis would kick that ***** to the curb and listen to Davos, I'd like him a lot better.

Ah, I also didn't drink that. I like him as a human character not as some kind of superhero king. He has a lot of big shortcomings to balance his qualities.

But the show seems really biased against him (plays only his downside and adds more like: wish for a son, constant horniness towards Melisandre, no hesitation to burning, etc.)

 

[krazykidd]

Don't read the books and you won't have to worry. It's been working for me so far.

Eh, in my end of the spectrum it's " Don't watch the show", since the books are usuall always better than the adaptation.

 

[Olas]

Don't read the books and you won't have to worry. It's been working for me so far.

Or just don't watch the show.

 

[wAriot]

Snip

Fair enough. As someone who hasn't read the books (stopped at the second one. I don't mind the spoilers though, I tend to forget them quickly), most of those things don't really affect me, but I can see how someone who has may be bothered by it. Still, as I said, I've seen a lot of people complaining just because there is "rape", and not because it is different in the books.

It ties into what TV tropes calls "Rape is the new dead parents." Throwing rape into a work for the sake of shock value is a popular trend in "edgy" media these days, but is generally rightfully ridiculed for being bad writing.

Well, see, I don't understand that. Half of this series is just "shock" scenes. If you are going to complain, do it about everything else too.
Not saying that the rape scene was well written, but I don't think it deserved such a shitstorm.

 

[Charles Phipps]

The show runners have been pretty clear they got something they didn't intend to do there. So, it's best considered Discontinuity.

 

[JMac85]

So... how 'bout them deviations in this week's episode? Not only did they change some stuff, they seemed to reveal things that haven't even been published yet. I'm already seeing people cry that they're going to drop the show because they don't want the unreleased books spoiled for them. No, seriously! It's fucking Bizarro World.

 

[Undomesticated Equine]

Yeah i think they went a bit too far from the books in the last episode the scenes in the craster's keep were not necessary they just put them in to add more DRAMA. Usually the deviations from the books are for the sake of saving time. This time it was just pointless.

 

[The Deadpool]

So... how 'bout them deviations in this week's episode? Not only did they change some stuff, they seemed to reveal things that haven't even been published yet. I'm already seeing people cry that they're going to drop the show because they don't want the unreleased books spoiled for them. No, seriously! It's fucking Bizarro World.

People are silly...

The "spoiler" came from a synopsis. And it was such a blatantly obvious spoiler that I cannot imagine anyone upset by it didn't already know it...