Ahh then you sir are in the wrong thread, it dawned on me pretty quick that this thread is not about actually talking about GOT it is rather for the would be professional writers of these forums to come here after an episode of GOT and then explain, usually at length every single thing that they feel is wrong with the plot of that episode, some of them will even come up with their own plots that are just as full of holes to poke at.
Dude, I'm not a hate fanboy. I think Game of Thrones is a great show and a lot of their decisions in adapting things from the books were either improvements or practical compromises. I feel it hit a low point in season 5 where the writers struggled with scheduling issues and having to quickly write new plot to replace plots cut from the book, but that it picked up again in season 6 once the writers found their footing. I liked the first two episodes of this series.
But this third one, it just broke my suspension of disbelief. Too many plot holes; too many twisted or illogical characterisations; too much liberty taken with the passage of time. I couldn't enjoy the episode anymore because my brain was distracted thinking "How the fuck did Euron get all the way over there? Wait, isn't Lannisport right next door to Casterly Rock?"
Laughing Man said:
The complaints are not the issue, it's the fact that that's ALL we get in this thread on top of the endless wannabes that have the cheek to call the writers crap and seriously think that they can do a better job. Here's the thing sticking 2 or 3 paragraphs of what you think the plot should have done DOES NOT make you a better writer and that's weather the writers are or are not actually doing a good job.
I'm not seriously suggesting I'm a better writer than the people running the show. The comment is meant to illustrate that it's relatively easy to imagine a more sensibly structure narrative that would probably be much better on screen. It's probably much easier in hindsight, and I think the writers were simply blind to the faults in their storyboarding because they were distracted with the practical concerns of running the show, but that doesn't mean I'm going to not criticise a shitty plot when I see it.
Laughing Man said:
The best though are the folk that sit there and complain week after week, pulling the episode apart, finding the flaws complaining and then turn round and say but I am gonna keep watching because...(insert whatever convoluted self reaffirming statement you wish here) if you really think the show is THAT crap and the writing THAT bad why on god's green fucking Earth would you keep watching it?
Well, like I said; I actually like the show a lot. I read Game of Thrones when I was about thirteen, and it was one of my favourite fantasy series. Seeing it adapted into mainstream popular culture so successfully is great for me.
It's because I like the show and am emotionally invested in it that I want it to be better than it currently is. Silly, unnecessary plot holes and loose writing make the show worse, and I really, really, really want it to be good. And when it isn't good I ***** about it, because bitching about it is cathartic.
Ned might have also stepped in. Aside from that? 50/50 - love of Lyanna vs. hatred for the Targaryens. But I could see a Severeus/Harry-esque relationship developing.
Robert (like most people) believed that Rhaegar abducted Lyanna and that their relationship was non consensual, which may or may not be true (but based on everything we know about Rhaegar's character probably isn't). It's a big part of the reason why the war started in the first place. Rhaegar wasn't just a Targaryen, he was the whole reason why Robert personally hated the Targaryens so much. Any child of Rhaegar and Lyanna would just be a symbol of what Robert believed was a crime so terrible it warranted waging a war to overthrow the Targaryens. It's questionable whether he could ever be convinced to change his mind after investing so much into that grudge.
Not to mention, Robert wasn't very emotionally stable to begin with.. even if he could be dissuaded once, all it takes is one bad mood and Jon gets his head smashed in. Ned and Robert were good friends, but Robert was still an angry, stubborn douche and I think Ned understood that.
DraconianMod said:
Why take out Tom Sevenstrings and his lads if you're going to pick up on Beric Dondarion again later in the show and even have a cameo that is absurdly similar to it featuring Ed Sheeran.
As I understand it, the cameo was basically a gift for Maisie Williams, as she's a fan. If you look at it like that, it's kind of sweet.. but yeah, really indulgent on the part of the writing staff and rightly panned by viewers and critics.
It strikes me as kind of symptomatic of a broader problem with the show that is starting to annoy me. In writing, sometimes you have to kill your darlings. Just because you love something or want to do it doesn't mean the audience will or that it's the use of limited storytelling space. It's kind of ironic to be having to point this out about a series the source of which is famous for killing off its darlings very literally.
So many scenes in the show just seem like they're there to give actors space to work, and while they're good actors and it's usually nice to see them I'd much rather that space was being used to advance the story and maybe fill in some of the plotholes people keep complaining about.
That said, I don't mind minor characters being cut or merged into single characters, even when it sometimes strains disbelief a bit. That's just economical storytelling. But giving Lena Headey a 10 minute monologue every time she kills someone isn't. We get it, Cersei is a *****, next scene?
See also: A whole season of Ramsey/Theon D/s fanfic, Arya Stark: Pedo Hunter and 90% of Dorne, plus a load of other stuff I've already forgotten because it's inconsequential.
Oh I beg to differ. I think the complaints *are* the issue, given how bitterly you're contesting them. Some people absolutely cannot abide having something they enjoy criticized.
Laughing Man said:
...it's the fact that that's ALL we get in this thread on top of the endless wannabes that have the cheek to call the writers crap and seriously think that they can do a better job.
As evidenced here. This thread is full of a great many different posts, some praising, others criticizing. Only a few are directly attacking the writing, and most of those on the heels of the last episode.
Also, the writers are crap. That doesn't require any more "cheek" than excoriating "Dude Where's My Car".
Laughing Man said:
Here's the thing sticking 2 or 3 paragraphs of what you think the plot should have done DOES NOT make you a better writer and that's weather the writers are or are not actually doing a good job.
The fact that a random forum goer came up with a more logical and internally consistent story beat in about 15 seconds isn't an argument that "they are a better writer". It's an argument that the show writers are being lazy hacks. Which is a self evident argument that scarcely even needs to be made at this point.
Laughing Man said:
The best though are the folk that sit there and complain week after week, pulling the episode apart, finding the flaws complaining and then turn round and say but I am gonna keep watching because...(insert whatever convoluted self reaffirming statement you wish here) if you really think the show is THAT crap and the writing THAT bad why on god's green fucking Earth would you keep watching it?
Most people who have stuck with a show or a series for a long duration of its lifespan will stick it out to the end, due to sunk cost.
I'm not sure why that bothers you, though. "The complaints are not the issue", right? Lol.
Seriously man, go to the subreddit. All the people who enjoy the wank fest the show has devolved into are cloistered there, wetting themselves over the dubious CGI battles, Lena Headey's Maleficent cosplay, and the tortured 21st century dialogue the actors are now vomiting up. You'll find fewer troubling complaints there, and be able to enjoy your threads in peace.
PS: If you are reading this Laughing Man, and once again asking yourself why I watch this show even though I don't like it, lets just say I have a little bit of Euron in me and also want to find out of Cersei likes a finger in the bum.
PS: If you are reading this Laughing Man, and once again asking yourself why I watch this show even though I don't like it, lets just say I have a little bit of Euron in me and also want to find out of Cersei likes a finger in the bum.
I'll go against everyone else and say I thought this one was the least offending so far. I'm willing to cut the writers some slack on teleporting armies and fleets at this point, simply because they've obviously ran out of time and can't afford proper military logistics.
I'm fine with a little bit of flexibility on the passage of time, but what bugs me is how no-one in the show is acting like any time has passed.
So Jorah goes to Oldtown to get treated for his greyscale. In the second episode, the grand maester tells him that it's fatal, and then says that he'll be kicked out in the morning, because they need the room for patients they can treat. Then Sam does a dangerous forbidden surgery to treat the greyscale, and it works fine.
Skip to episode 3. The grand maester is examining Jorah's scabs, which look like they've had at least a few weeks of time to heal up - he had most of the skin of his chest removed, after all, and now he's basically free to leave. In the rest of the show, actions are happening that should have taken a few weeks; Jon has gone from Winterfell to Dragonstone, for example. So at this point, I'm assuming that a couple of weeks have passed since the end of the second episode and the start of the third.
But. The grand maester acts like this is the first time he's examined Jorah since his initial diagnosis. He reprimands Sam as if he just now found out that Sam had done the dangerous forbidden surgery. And he even said in the first episode; if Jorah doesn't commit suicide that night, he'll be kicked out the next day. But if Jorah has been healing up for the past few weeks, he should've had that conversation with Sam weeks ago. It would be important for him to do so, because if the operation had failed and Sam had contracted greyscale, he's an infection risk and needs to be quarantined! But it's only now that he bothers to bring Sam into his office and tell him off.
So what happened? Did the maester forget about Jorah for a few weeks? Did Jorah heal up overnight after having a ton of flesh literally stripped off? Why didn't anyone come into the cell to kick Jorah out, see him all bandaged and salved up immediately post-surgery, and go "hey, this guy's had some surgery done to him!" and then call the maester over to go examine him?
It's surprisingly little details like that which bug the crap out of me. They're what ruins my ability to suspend disbelief. You want weeks or months passing in between scenes, that's fine, but you can't have weeks or months pass in the narrative and then have the characters all act as if no time whatsoever has passed. It makes no sense. This is a series with an army of zombies and a fireproof lady who gave birth to three dragons, and it's only when the show starts twisting time into wibbly-wobbly knots that I actually go "Hey, this is bullshit!"
RiseOfTheWhiteWolf said:
Obvious: Littlefinger is toast and will probably be dead in either the next episode or the one after that.
I wouldn't be so sure. He's still needed to keep the Vale allied with the North, and Sansa seems to value his advice enough to let him follow her around all day talking about how she's gotta be sharp.
Littlefinger's gonna die, for sure, but it'll either be at the end of this season or during the next one.
Maybe. Sansa needs a reason to do that, though. Jon hasn't been sucking up to Daenaerys, which is one thing that might cause the Northern nobles to revolt. His expedition was actually very successful; rather than being held hostage until he agrees to swear fealty, he leaves with a stack of dragonglass to make weapons with and more to come.
RiseOfTheWhiteWolf said:
Obvious: Jon is going to go on some sort of expidition to prove the existence of the white walkers and get completely and utterly cucked by the night king.
I figure they're saving that one for the last episode, sadly. And why would it be a surprise? Mance Rayder had that whole thing about the fake Horn of Winter. At least, that was in the books. Did they cut that from the show?
But it wouldn't be surprising if the real one turned up in the Night King's hands and he used that to bring the Wall down. I think they should've done it in the first episode. That'd be one hell of a way to start the season.
I actually don't think they'll hook up. They seemed to kind of...hate each other, when they first met. That would be a legitimate twist; have the fanbase's one true super-couple finally meet, and then have each of them discover that the other one is their boner-Kryptonite.
My money is on Jon dying during the White Walker invasion and Daenerys surviving to rule Westeros.
Alternately, everything north of Dorne gets zombied, 90% of the cast get eaten, and Tyrion declares himself Dwarf-King of the ashes.
RiseOfTheWhiteWolf said:
It feels like a storyline which you've seen a thousand times before, like the writers are following the most vanilla manual on how to write a TV show with a war in it ever. Maybe my standards are too high but if they are, its because they set the bar so high themselves with the first 3 seasons. They really could have gone for something a little more unorthodox. Right now it feels like they looked up the most viewed articles on TV Tropes and used them as guidelines.
I do agree with all of this. This is all playing out far too predictably.
Jorah's looking for a cure for greyscale? Well, he'll go to Oldtown and meet Sam, and Sam'll cure him. Saw that coming last season. Melisandre gets exiled? She'll go back to Dragonstone, duh. Jon needs dragonglass? He'll go meet Daenerys, ah-durr. Everyone hates the Sand Snakes? They'll get murdered!
Like, at this point, I'm like "Wow! I wonder if one of the dragons will get killed by a ballista! And I wonder if all that wildfire that's still under the city might show up again when a bunch of dragons are setting the city on fire! I wonder if Arya will run into the Hound?!"
One of the Starks will kill him and Royce will come to lick Sansas feet and swear fealty to the north or something and we'll never see poor sweet Robin again. Screencap this.
Better scenario: Littlefinger dies, Royce says "f this I'm outta here", and he arrives back at the Eyrie just in time to be surrounded by the living dead and devoured along with Robin.
I think it's meant to describe how he's becoming super detached from boring old human beings now that he has the ability to astral project throughout all of time and space.
Like, the Three-Eyed Raven had to upload all of his prophecy know-how into Bran's brain at the last minute because of Bran's mucking about with time and space. I imagine Bran would be like, WOAH, I CAN SEE ANY POSSIBLE BREASTS FROM ANY POINT IN HISTORY, OH HI SANSA, YOUR BREASTS ARE WONDERFUL.
I think it's meant to describe how he's becoming super detached from boring old human beings now that he has the ability to astral project throughout all of time and space.
Like, the Three-Eyed Raven had to upload all of his prophecy know-how into Bran's brain at the last minute because of Bran's mucking about with time and space. I imagine Bran would be like, WOAH, I CAN SEE ANY POSSIBLE BREASTS FROM ANY POINT IN HISTORY, OH HI SANSA, YOUR BREASTS ARE WONDERFUL.
"I DID NOT HIT HER! I DID NOT! IT IS BULLSHEET! Oh, Hi mark!" And I am only being partially ironic when I compare Bran's dialogue in Ep 3 to the dialogue of The Room. I got the same vibe you got, that this is showing Bran slipping from his old self into fully becoming the Three Eyed Raven, but the dialogue, delivery and entire premise was just stupid.
He could literally have brought up anything else, like Rickon's death, Jon's resurrection or his vision of the Red Wedding, to deliver the same point about knowing about things he hasn't seen or heard of, while talking about it in that deadpan not-really-acting-voice. But no, let's go with the part that reminds us about one of the worst arcs of Season 5 and is so insensitive that it flies straight past the moral event horizon, with actual spoken words that are creepy as fuck "you were pretty when that guy raped you, lulz".
Like you said earlier about the entire part where Dany looses her allies to plot contrivance, the problem seems to be that the writers seem ignorant about the implications and context of what they are actually pushing out. Bran has always been a pretty boring character with an incredibly slow burning and unexciting arc ("let's walk for 4 seasons, then have you sit in a cave for one season!"), which is why it baffles me that they instantly play up his douchbaggery when we finally get a moment that might be poignant. It is the opposite of an Author Saving Throw, in that I've got no reason to like Bran and the first thing he does is that he reminds his (previously beloved) sister about how she was raped for no proper reason while being a total creep about it.
aw crap. I just realized those reddit spoilers from months ago have been right on the money so far, so I may very well already know how everything plays out. >.< It'll make the week by week predictions a little dry if so, but eh, can't unsee them now.
aw crap. I just realized those reddit spoilers from months ago have been right on the money so far, so I may very well already know how everything plays out. >.< It'll make the week by week predictions a little dry if so, but eh, can't unsee them now.
aw crap. I just realized those reddit spoilers from months ago have been right on the money so far, so I may very well already know how everything plays out. >.< It'll make the week by week predictions a little dry if so, but eh, can't unsee them now.
Ah, I see you found them! Sorry, I'd have posted if I hadn't gone to bed early last night. XD I admit, while I don't like everything the show has done with itself since becoming free of the books, I'm a fairly simple man. It's hard to be promised something like
a zombie ice dragon
and not get at least a little invested
bastardofmelbourne said:
Well, what you fap to is your business. You certainly won't offend the reanimated corpses of any fictional characters.
Can I talk about what I have just spoiled myself from the leaks revealed recently? And I mean to talk with other people that have seen the leaks for themselves and we will talk using Spoiler Tags.
But lets just say I wonder how different the story will be when George-y boy finishes his books because I worry about some of the decisions that have been revealed in the show might happen in the book.
Some stuff happened in the first 3/4, but who gives a shit. The Dragon starts being a Dragon.
It's about time Danny put a score on the board. Highgarden's gold is now lost, or at least unable to be moved with any ease. Cersei is now unable to make payment to the Iron Bank. And, the element of surprise over the glorified ballista is gone, while a dragon took some (seemingly nonlethal) damage.
Also, while Jaime was saved from at the last second from fiery death, will he become a prisoner again or succumb to a watery grave?
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