Game of Thrones Season Finale Review: Sitting on the Throne

[GundamSentinel]

I've read the books, but it's been such a long time that many of the details and the sequence of events have been forgotten. Book 3, 4 and 5 are a bit of a blur for me with events mingling with each other.

As such, it's been only when reading this topic that I have a couple of moments like: 'Gosh, I totally forgot about that, weird they didn't put that in.' Especially with the Jaime/Tyrion reveal and LSH (which I had actually completely forgotten about). But when watching the episode, I hardly noticed it. Tyrion's actions seemed perfectly understandable even without the big reveal.

All in all, I actually really liked the finale. Varys sitting next to Tyrion's crate as they sail away and Arya going to Braavos were some very powerful images for me and they give me a good feeling about the next season.

Also, I was surprised at how quickly they concluded Bran's journey to the North. Maybe that's my memory abandoning me again, but I seem to remember pages upon pages of slogging through the snow.

 

[Divinegon]

I understand why people are pissed off at the revelation about Tyrion's previous wife being cut but on the other hand I was also worried they wouldn't cut it in the show, because the dynamic between Jaime and Tyrion has changed considerably in the adaptation.

Spoiler

Tyrion doesn't even know Jaime was back in King's Landing until he shows up to free him (And then it's not even Jaime at the cell, it's Varys. We never had their bro moments together through out the season and we never had Bronn telling Jaime that Tyrion always had faith in his brother. Through the books we see Jaime and Tyrion commenting to other people that they get along rather well, but we never see a kinship in the shape as is the show.

So, in the books that revelation feels better because Jaime releases Tyrion almost out of guilt for what he had done to him before and as a sense of duty for being family. And of course, having seen his brother for the first time in a long while Tyrion goes "Holy crap you're safe! Why are you here and why are you doing this then?" which prompts the revelation and then Tyrion goes completely mad, just about hating Jaime too.

Here there's no reason for Tyrion to ask Jaime why he's rescuing him, we had scenes and scenes of building up their relationship where you were just about sure that his brother would intervene at some point. There's no eeriness between them, they're the best bros! It would have felt forced.

However a lot of Jaime's character development in the books after this moment comes exactly from that revelation. I wonder what they're going to do now?

 

[Legion]

It's not clear why she flip-flopped from her stance before the trial of Tyrion to support her father's decision, but she returns to her strident self.

She didn't change her mind as she never planned to in the first place. In the earlier episode she approached each of the three judges and used various methods to win them over to her side, so that they'd find Tyrion guilty.

Mace Tyrell she flattered and offered a position of power.
For her father she told him she'd be willing to marry Loras.
With Oberyn she appealed to his sympathy as a parent.

You even mentioned this in your review of the episode:

You see, I think it's all an act. Cersei's behavior in this episode is all orchestrated to secure allies and seem vulnerable, when she's nothing of the sort.

Why the hell didn't he do this before the fight with the Mountain? Oh well, plot holes aside, Jaime sends Tyrion through the secret passages of the Red Keep to meet with Varys and get the hell out of dodge.

If Tyrion's champion won the trial by combat then he'd be free and clear of all charges, which would be much better than him running away in the middle of a trial and being an outlaw. It's not as though they'd execute him on the spot if he failed, so giving him a chance to be "proven" innocent would be worth the risk. I wouldn't really consider it a plot hole.

 

[Kenjitsuka]

You didn't say anything about Bran, Meerah and Jojen.

Yeah... that should be rectified. Especially since it's the least obvious part. :\

"But what made the fight so compelling was that, at least for me, I wasn't sure who I wanted to win."
Not Brienne, so I was dissapointed at the outcome. But it was epically brutal and realistic indeed!!!
I like how he kicks her between her legs. Fighting dirty normally works, but, like you said, she's not a man!

"But in the end, Arya walks away."
How did that make any sense? He was on her damn list she drones on and on about: people I will kill! And then she doesn't kill him. Brienne (or gravity) did the deed, but she could still have killed him, like she proclaimed she would.
I see how this makes her all "stone cold!" and brutal. But if they wanted to portray that, she could've killed him slow or with a rock etc...

"What will Gregor Clegane become?"
What indeed! I am thinking something in the vein of the Terminator. 'Cause that'd be awesome; Zombie-bodybuilder... thing, mindlessly doing Cersei's bidding and not caring about getting stabbed/shot in the process.

"Why the hell didn't he do this before the fight with the Mountain?"
Uh... DUH! Because if Viper boy had finished when he had the chance he would have been RELEASED, scott free! Then there wouldn't have been a need for something so VERY risky. How can you call that a plothole?!!!

"Will they make love?"
Don't be ridiculous. He's already established as not having an interest in children, and her sister was quite a lot older!
So unless they time skip (obviously not) many years and she's 18+... how would that make sense?

 

[Greg Tito]

Apart from the obvious 'trying kill your son' thing that Tywin had going for him, I really liked him and wouldn't really call him a villain. Yeah he deserved what he got in the end but he was no worse than some of the many others characters in King's Landing that deserve two crossbow bolts to the torso!

I'd argue the missing reveal makes him pretty clearly a villain, at least in Tyrion's eyes. He's a villain to me and GRRM then!

 

[Greg Tito]

You didn't say anything about Bran, Meerah and Jojen.

I figured 3400 words was enough.

But yeah, I skipped over them completely by accident. Their storyline is so forgettable, even if we lost one of them and Bran gets to meet the Children of the Forest. I just never care about Bran and his seer's journey. Am I the only one? Do you follow his arc as closely as the rest of them?

 

[Bishop Ren]

You didn't say anything about Bran, Meerah and Jojen.

I figured 3400 words was enough.

But yeah, I skipped over them completely by accident. Their storyline is so forgettable, even if we lost one of them and Bran gets to meet the Children of the Forest. I just never care about Bran and his seer's journey. Am I the only one? Do you follow his arc as closely as the rest of them?

I personally dislike the Bran storyline in both the books and the show. I think it was a waste of time to cover him in this already overcrowded episode. That said, I would have liked to hear your feelings on the D&D Skeleton fight and fireball rescue. The wights were completely different than anything we'd seen up to this point, in ether book or show with no reason. It felt so out of place. It reminded me of how they magicked up Pyat Pree in season 2. Just so tonally wrong.

 

[Browncoat86]

The final Hound/Arya seen bugged me, it bugged me when I read it, and it bugged me when I watched it. To me, it felt like the Hound had, if nothing else, earned a quick death from Arya.

*EDIT*
http://imgur.com/gallery/Bb9SJh4

That link is one of the main reasons I didn't like how The Hound/Arya ended. There was nobody left to ransom Arya to, as far as everyone is concerned, all the Starks are dead or missing, he was protecting her for the sake of protecting her at that point, I'm not saying that he wouldn't have offered her up for ransom at the first available opportunity, but in that moment, she meant more to him than a sack of gold.

 

[Frozengale]

You didn't say anything about Bran, Meerah and Jojen.

I figured 3400 words was enough.

But yeah, I skipped over them completely by accident. Their storyline is so forgettable, even if we lost one of them and Bran gets to meet the Children of the Forest. I just never care about Bran and his seer's journey. Am I the only one? Do you follow his arc as closely as the rest of them?

No, I don't. Not really. I think Bran's story is pretty dull. Also it seems everyone that has read the books hates Bran's chapters the most just because they are dull. I think you've said that on the Podcast a few times.

Though I will say that his story was at least entertaining this week, mostly because of the battle with the... I know they have a specific name but I don't think they ever say it in the show... the White Walker Lite Skellies.

 

[Frozengale]

I still can't believe they left that revelation out.
That is THE reason for Tyrions actions after that and they just left it out!
WTF!

Speaking as someone who hasn't read the books (but I do know what you are talking about) I think his actions made perfect sense. He went to go confront his father in some way. I don't think he had a plan really he was just going to play it by ear but I got the feeling that he wanted to have at least a few final words for his father before he left (doubt he was going to kill him). Then when he saw that Shae had left him for Tywin he just sort of lost it. He killed Shae but I got the feeling it was both in self defense and because he was hurt. After learning that the women he loved had abandoned him for his father that's when he finally decided that his final confrontation with his father would be killing him.


The fact is that putting the thing about his ex-wife into the story at that point would feel clunky and strange. "I'm here to break you out Tyrion...OH BY THE WAY, that girl you were married to, she TOTALLY loved you but father made her leave you." I'm guessing one of the reasons they expounded on Shae so much in the show was because they didn't feel it would be fitting to bring back something that was a very short word of mouth exposition story back in Season One. I'm sure they'll bring it back in some form or another later in the Series, but I thought everything played out quite nicely.

 

[Tarsus]

Very disappointed by how much was cut/butchered this season compared to the books.
Coldhands (its totally "the uncle") did not even get so much as a cameo and i got a feeling he would play a larger role in the coming books.
They managed to stay impressively true to the source material for the 1st season but seem to be drifting further away way from the books to the point where they are just making random stuff up.
They really should have stuck with 1 season for each book. Considering the massive following this show has i cant think of a sensible reason for rushing it.

 

[Amaror]

Speaking as someone who hasn't read the books (but I do know what you are talking about) I think his actions made perfect sense. He went to go confront his father in some way. I don't think he had a plan really he was just going to play it by ear but I got the feeling that he wanted to have at least a few final words for his father before he left (doubt he was going to kill him). Then when he saw that Shae had left him for Tywin he just sort of lost it. He killed Shae but I got the feeling it was both in self defense and because he was hurt. After learning that the women he loved had abandoned him for his father that's when he finally decided that his final confrontation with his father would be killing him.

The fact is that putting the thing about his ex-wife into the story at that point would feel clunky and strange. "I'm here to break you out Tyrion...OH BY THE WAY, that girl you were married to, she TOTALLY loved you but father made her leave you." I'm guessing one of the reasons they expounded on Shae so much in the show was because they didn't feel it would be fitting to bring back something that was a very short word of mouth exposition story back in Season One. I'm sure they'll bring it back in some form or another later in the Series, but I thought everything played out quite nicely.

Fair enough.
For the rest of my argument on why i thought this revelation was fairly important i am going to spoiler the books.
However i will not go any further in the timeline than the series, so i won't be spoiling any of that.
Decide for youself if you want to read it.

Spoiler

The Confrontation with Shae, hell the whole character of shae was very different in the books. Firstly is was made up as a love affair by Tyrion himself, but it was never hinted that Shae would be feeling it herself. This is something i don't really like about the show. Even though they show some gritty things, when it comes to romance they, well, tend to romanticise it in a way which doesn't fit as much in the world, which is fairly gritty.
Another example of this is how they made the lovestory between rob stark and his wife. It was cliche and romantical and not good in my opinion.
Coming back to Shae. The trial was fairly similar, although there was her pet name. She called Tyrion her "giant of lannister" in the books, which she used in the trial to humiliate Tyrion even further.
When Tyrion is then rescued by Jaime, he's happy. His beloved brother saved him and he just wants to get away from the sister that hates him so much.
To explain the situation, when Jaime saves Tyrion, Tyrion thanks him dearly. Jaime then mentions in passing that he was just paying an old debt. Tyrion demands to know what he means, Jaime tries to back away, but Tyrion persists and Jaime tells him that Tysha wasn't really a whore.
This enflames Tyrions hatred. The only family member that Tyrion thought on his side betrayed him. It makes him realize that his whole family is against him. It also makes his hatred of his father all the stronger, because Tywins deed is even more dispicable than it was before.

Edit: To make clear what Tywin did. He heard that Tyrion had married a commoner girl. Because that can't stain his families reputation, he forced Jaime to tell Tyrion that the girl was a whore. Then he made 30 guardsmen fuck her for a silver coin each. Then he made Tyrion also fuck her for a gold coin.

When he sees Shae in Tywins bed, she doesn't attack him, but actually tries to soothe him by calling him her "giant of lannister" again, but this only makes the thought of her betrayel flare up again and he kills her in his rage.
When he meets his father he inquires about Tysha, in his mind the only women that really loved him, but Tywin only says she's gone were whore's go.
He then kills Tywin in his rage.

In the end, in my mind it just doesn't make any sense that Tyrion kills Tywin because Tywin calls Shae a whore. She obviously is, Tyrion just saw it himself, he just killed her for it!
If it makes sense to you, then maybe it's not as horrible done as i thought it was.
I still think it was pretty badly done, though, because that revelation plays a HUGE role in Tyrions character development. But then again the rape scene showed that they obviously don't have any problem screwing up character development.

 

[Nikolaz72]

You didn't say anything about Bran, Meerah and Jojen.

I figured 3400 words was enough.

But yeah, I skipped over them completely by accident. Their storyline is so forgettable, even if we lost one of them and Bran gets to meet the Children of the Forest. I just never care about Bran and his seer's journey. Am I the only one? Do you follow his arc as closely as the rest of them?

No, I don't. Not really. I think Bran's story is pretty dull. Also it seems everyone that has read the books hates Bran's chapters the most just because they are dull. I think you've said that on the Podcast a few times.

Though I will say that his story was at least entertaining this week, mostly because of the battle with the... I know they have a specific name but I don't think they ever say it in the show... the White Walker Lite Skellies.

I skipped all Brans chapters completely. I seem to have gotten a more fulfilled experience out of reading the books from them. Also means I didn't mind too much when Jon and Him 'almost but didn't' meet. I didn't even know it wasn't in the books!

 

[Greg Tito]

They really should have stuck with 1 season for each book. Considering the massive following this show has i cant think of a sensible reason for rushing it.

While I agree this seasons did feel a little rushed, if they kept it one season per book then the last two seasons would have been squished into one. Talk about rushed!

 

[StriderShinryu]

I find that this episode almost more than any other is really showing the differences between book and TV show. Many of the complaints I'm seeing about this episode (outside of the common one regarding it just being too packed and the Jon Snow/Mance/Stannis part having been better placed at the end of Ep.9) come down to "this characters choices don't make sense in the TV show because of how things were in the books!" This isn't the books. The characters and even some details in the plot itself are not the same as they are in the books. Thus they are going to feel differently and have different actions/reactions. I'm not saying that the books haven't done some things better (and some things worse) but I am saying that the characters, especially as we see them in this advanced stage of the storyline told in the TV show, are not the same characters as we see in the books.

You didn't say anything about Bran, Meerah and Jojen.

I figured 3400 words was enough.

But yeah, I skipped over them completely by accident. Their storyline is so forgettable, even if we lost one of them and Bran gets to meet the Children of the Forest. I just never care about Bran and his seer's journey. Am I the only one? Do you follow his arc as closely as the rest of them?

I'm not the sort of person who would be comfortable skipping book chapters.. but I've been sorely tempted to skip Bran's. I also have little interest in the details of Dany's chapters either even if I find the overall shape of her storyline interesting. I can definitely see both of them being very important in whatever sort of climax this saga is going to have given what they have going on in their personal plotlines so I pay attention, but do I really care? No, not really.

 

[DeimosMasque]

It's not clear why she flip-flopped from her stance before the trial of Tyrion to support her father's decision, but she returns to her strident self.

She didn't change her mind as she never planned to in the first place. In the earlier episode she approached each of the three judges and used various methods to win them over to her side, so that they'd find Tyrion guilty.

Mace Tyrell she flattered and offered a position of power.
For her father she told him she'd be willing to marry Loras.
With Oberyn she appealed to his sympathy as a parent.

I'm pretty sure he's referring to her seen with Margery where she seemed to have finally accepted that she was going to be marrying the Knight of Flowers. While in this weeks episodes she seems more adamant then ever that she will not be forced into another loveless marriage.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

I prefer books over films/television based on books generally but from the clips I've glimpsed and from what I've seen in season 1...

Well, I need to marathon soon.

Also its a good thing the show is catching up with George. Motivation to write if I ever saw one!

 

[DeimosMasque]

You didn't say anything about Bran, Meerah and Jojen.

I figured 3400 words was enough.

But yeah, I skipped over them completely by accident. Their storyline is so forgettable, even if we lost one of them and Bran gets to meet the Children of the Forest. I just never care about Bran and his seer's journey. Am I the only one? Do you follow his arc as closely as the rest of them?

I'm not the sort of person who would be comfortable skipping book chapters.. but I've been sorely tempted to skip Bran's. I also have little interest in the details of Dany's chapters either even if I find the overall shape of her storyline interesting. I can definitely see both of them being very important in whatever sort of climax this saga is going to have given what they have going on in their personal plotlines so I pay attention, but do I really care? No, not really.

It was funny when we got to the Bran part in episode 10 my lady sighed and said "Can we skip this?" I told her "It's the final episode somethings got to finally happen! Right?"

Granted something finally did happen. And what happened with them was a lot more than happened with Dany the whole season, and she's one of our favorite characters.

 

[Crazy Zaul]

This show needs a 'show nameplates' button. I still hear peoples names in the reviews/podcast and think 'who the fuck is that?' then find out its someone who's been around for 2 seasons and I have been calling them something else.
The show finally got legitimately good this season with plenty of actual things happening, but if GRRM really does keep it to 7 books it still looks like Daenerys and/or the White Walkers invading Westeros will never actually happen.

With all the things they apparently cut out it seems GRRM was right to complain that the show should get 13 episodes like everything else instead of arbitrarily being restricted to 10 for no actual reason.

 

[teamcharlie]

Jaime didn't save Tyrion earlier because Oberyn might have actually won the fight against the Mountain. If so, Tyrion would have been exonerated and nobody would have had to go on the lamb. Saving Tyrion after the fight is exactly as dangerous to Jaime's reputation as it would have been before, but it's clearly his only option to save his brother now.

For the official tally: we've lost Tywin, very likely the Hound, Ygrette, and probably Bronn. I'm also just gonna go ahead and assume that Dany, Arya, and Brienne remain effectively immortal; never get any smarter than they are right now; that their personalities continue to consist of being obstinate, naive, idealistic, and having (rightfully) the basic assumption that they're invulnerable; and that every 'good' male character who meets them will instantly be willing to give his life to protect them. Tyrion out and about should be fun, though.

Edit: Oops, sorry. Oberyn's gone too. I guess I was just counting the interesting characters that we're missing, and not the idealized gay stereotypes and assorted boring people who are also gone.