Game of Thrones - Well, Stannis fans, what do you think of him NOW? (Spoilers)

[FirstNameLastName]

I actually liked how they handled Jon's scene. Personally, I think it was better done than in the book.
But other than that, this season was kind of a rushed mess (for obvious reasons), and that finale seemed like it was trying to rapidly tie up too many loose ends, which might not have been such a problem if Cersei's scene didn't drag on much longer than it needed to.

And seriously, what the fuck was that bullshit with Meryn Trant?
"Oh shit, we have to kill Meryn off next episode, but what if people have forgotten what to think of him? After all, Syrio died back in season one, and people may not realise that Arya repeating the names of all those she seeks to kill every night actually means she wants revenge."
"Don't worry, we'll just remind their feeble brains that they're supposed to hate him by making him a paedophile. That way it will feel cathartic when he dies without having to care about the story."
"I dunno, that seems a little subtle. People may not realise he's a bad person."
"What if we make him beat the children before fucking them?"
"That's a good start, but still might go over their heads."
"Perhaps we could try dressing him up as the devil, wearing a top-hat and twirling his moustache while kicking a basket of puppies and holding up a sigh reading 'Hate me you idiots, I'm a bad person! Hate me!' "
"Still too subtle."

Christ, Meryn Trant would hardily make anyone's list of nice people, but it was down right cringe-worthy how hard they were trying to make us hate him with this last minute character assassination. He beat Sansa on the king's command, but there was never any evidence that he got off on in, rather that he was a callus lackey. Hell, that was practically his defining character trait, but they abandon this in favour of making him straight up evil. What the hell happened to nuanced characters and complex motivations? Have they just been turfed out while making room for more fan-fiction?

5. Jon drags the Wildling Army he just rescued from the coastal city of Hardhome up to the Gates of Castle Black and asks to be let in. Check out this map:

Spoiler

Note the position of Castle Black, and of Hardhome. Remember he rescued them in ships.

Also remember they did not change the geography for the show. They publish Atlases and puzzle-maps of Westeros that look exactly like this. Now imagine how fucking lazy you have to be to write a scene like that. It's a little thing, but it's so preposterous it totally shatters your immersion.

That was also something that caused me to double take and scratch my head. In the novels, the wildlings are taken through the gate after the battle, and the others who headed to Hardhome are taken to East-Watch, yet in the show they merged the two groups together but for some reason they still travel through the gate. It makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Somekindofgold]

Why was burning Shireen any worse than burning any other people? He burned Mance Rayder alive, but that wasn't sickening enough? (Didn't Mance have King's blood in him?) One of his earliest scenes has him burning people at the stake on a night-time beach with a crowd of onlookers.

Because this is the type of characterization departure that cannot be forgiven. Stannis does NOT believe in burning people, he never has. He does it because he respects the Red Gods power, he isnt a zealot. Stannis hasnt believed in any form of god for a very long time. Even as they're marching to Winterfell he refuses to allow anymore burnings because half of his army are unbelievers.

Also they werent burning people at the stake on a beach in the first scene, they were the idols of the seven. As for everyone else burnt alive, Mance was burned because the price of deserting the Nights Watch is death. Alester Florent is burnt by Stannis after the Blackwater because he tried to sell Shireen to the Lannisters for peace. Everyone Stannis burns is because they're criminals who's sentence is death. Even Renly's death is justified because Renly is literally committing treason against his brother, for which the punishment is death.

So why was burning Shireen worse? because Stannis would never burn his daughter, an innocent girl, no matter what promises of power he is being offered. He only came close to killing an innocent in his darkest moment and Davos pulled him back from it, which in turn developed Stannis' character.

Also lets not even talk about Selyse's 180, what the actual fuck was that about? shes the zealot, always has been, if anyone was to burn Shireen it would be her with Melisandre's encouragement.

And yes, I know GRRM told them that Shireen burns, you know what their reaction was? ""yes this is totally a Stannis thing, he's motivated purely by ambition for power". That was Stannis at the START of his storyline, but by the time he's marching to Winterfell? no, it is not him. That is a misconception so massive its almost baffling.

There are two answers to the question of 'why did D&D decide to destroy the Stannis storyline', either they did not understand it on a fundamental level the character,or they hated him so much they decided that everyone else should hate him as well and sabotaged it.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I actually liked how they handled Jon's scene. Personally, I think it was better done than in the book.

Really? It was vastly superior in the book. Not least of which because it was part of Jon's arc (and it didn't paint the Night's Watch as uselessly xenophobic idiots). Jon's entire five book arc, nevermind just ADWD, is about him struggling between love and duty. Between his commitment to the Watch and the events there, and his desire to be a Good Man. It's constant. He wants to ride off after Ned dies and Robb goes to war. He's tempted by Ygritte and torn between his love for her and his duty to his brothers. He helps Stannis because he desires revenge on the Lannisters (and by proxy the Boltons/Freys) and wants to see him succeed. He sends spies to Winterfell, and eventually decides to march on it. It all stems from Aemon's "love is the death of duty" speech, and most probably culminates in a Nissa Nissa moment, if you genuinely believe Jon is Azor Ahai.

What do we get on the show? Well he let the wildlings through, so we might as well kill him. Even though we opened the gate for him a couple days ago, and the area is now full of wildlings that we are reliant on him for a peace with. Jon gets to remain a saintly hero, without flaw, killed by racist idiots.

He also calls for "Olly" when he dies, instead of "Ghost". Which I guess makes sense...why would he feel attached to the Direwolf he raised from a pup and shares a psychic link with, instead of the bowl-headed moppet who has been scowling at him and dropping anvils all season long.

Now, granted, opinions can't really be criticized, but I'm truly intrigued to know what it is you prefer about the show version of events.

So why was burning Shireen worse? because Stannis would never burn his daughter, an innocent girl, no matter what promises of power he is being offered. He only came close to killing an innocent in his darkest moment and Davos pulled him back from it, which in turn developed Stannis' character.

I disagree.

"He may be the best boy who ever drew breath and it would not matter. My duty is to the realm.? His hand swept across the Painted Table. "How many boys dwell in Westeros? How many girls? How many men, how many women? The darkness will devour them all, she says. The night that never ends. She talks of prophecies...a hero reborn in the sea, living dragons hatched from dead stone...she speaks of signs and swears they point to me. I never asked for this, no more than I asked to be king. Yet dare I disregard her?" He ground his teeth. "We do not choose our destinies. Yet we must...we must do our duty, no? Great or small, we must do our duty."

It gets overlooked in the show, but Stannis is not chasing a crown for a crown's sake. Stannis believes it falls to him to defend the realm against the Long Night. He is prepared to make any sacrifice for this. Were things desperate enough, he would very possibly burn Shireen.

Alas, in the show, "desperate" amounts to "a very light dusting of snow".

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Damn there's a lot of hate for this show . I liked it, though this season was a slow burn more than perhaps any other season so far. Good thing I binge-watched the whole thing in three days. There were definitely missteps, but I think it compares well to the books. I mean, were people seriously waiting to see Brienne just piffle around for the entire season and KNOWING she's not going to achieve her goal? To the sand snakes doing some insipid plot to make Myrcella Queen, and then having one of them locked in a prison for half the season? Sam going all angsty-angsty and miserable on a ship for most of the season? I don't see anyone praising the omission of any of that crap, just hating on the mistakes. The Griff and Iron Islands subplots would both have required introducing entire casts of new characters into the series, and both of them are only tangentially related to the big picture even in the books anyway.

I can't really muster that much hate for entire plot lines. Sansa's routine of getting tossed around and made miserable is starting to get really boring, but only boring, not actively annoying or hatable. Jaime's and Bronn's little bro(nn)mance subplot was rather fanfictiony, but they had good chemistry and when I think the alternative would have been just Jaime sitting on his ass I'll take this over that any day. Though that did provide us with perhaps the most "WTF" scene of the season, the bit where one of the Sand Snakes starts flirting with Bronn for no apparent reason and then gives him the antidote. Nice bit of cheesecake, sure, but fuck me was it ever out of nowhere and awkwardly put in. What would we have lost with the omission of that scene?

Most memorable line of the season though: "The dwarf lives until we find a cock merchant".

 

[FirstNameLastName]

I actually liked how they handled Jon's scene. Personally, I think it was better done than in the book.

Really? It was vastly superior in the book. Not least of which because it was part of Jon's arc (and it didn't paint the Night's Watch as uselessly xenophobic idiots). Jon's entire five book arc, nevermind just ADWD, is about him struggling between love and duty. Between his commitment to the Watch and the events there, and his desire to be a Good Man. It's constant. He wants to ride off after Ned dies and Robb goes to war. He's tempted by Ygritte and torn between his love for her and his duty to his brothers. He helps Stannis because he desires revenge on the Lannisters (and by proxy the Boltons/Freys) and wants to see him succeed. He sends spies to Winterfell, and eventually decides to march on it. It all stems from Aemon's "love is the death of duty" speech, and most probably culminates in a Nissa Nissa moment, if you genuinely believe Jon is Azor Ahai.

What do we get on the show? Well he let the wildlings through, so we might as well kill him. Even though we opened the gate for him a couple days ago, and the area is now full of wildlings that we are reliant on him for a peace with. Jon gets to remain a saintly hero, without flaw, killed by racist idiots.

He also calls for "Olly" when he dies, instead of "Ghost".

Now, granted, opinions can't really be criticized, but I'm truly intrigued to know what it is you prefer about the show version of events.

Oh, don't misunderstand, I think the books handle his story and character much better, I just mean that luring him into an ambush seemed better than how they did it in the book (partically using Benjen in it). It's been a while since I've read the book, but from what I can remember, after he announces he will be riding south to Winterfell he comes across Wun Wun attacking one of the queen's men, then the watch simply attacks him. It all feels rather disjointed and the bussiness with Wun Wun seems kind of non sequitur, but I might be remembering it wrong.

 

[Somekindofgold]

I disagree.

"He may be the best boy who ever drew breath and it would not matter. My duty is to the realm.? His hand swept across the Painted Table. "How many boys dwell in Westeros? How many girls? How many men, how many women? The darkness will devour them all, she says. The night that never ends. She talks of prophecies...a hero reborn in the sea, living dragons hatched from dead stone...she speaks of signs and swears they point to me. I never asked for this, no more than I asked to be king. Yet dare I disregard her?" He ground his teeth. "We do not choose our destinies. Yet we must...we must do our duty, no? Great or small, we must do our duty."

It gets overlooked in the show, but Stannis is not chasing a crown for a crown's sake. Stannis believes it falls to him to defend the realm against the Long Night. He is prepared to make any sacrifice for this. Were things desperate enough, he would very possibly burn Shireen.

Alas, in the show, "desperate" amounts to "a very light dusting of snow".

I dont agree, maybe before but not now. Note he says that quote before Davos smuggles Edric away and begins Stannis' transformation into the man who marches to the Wall. By the point he burns Shireen in the show has been reminded by Davos that there are some prices too great to pay and I believe that Stannis truly learnt that from his hand. Remember the last part of the quote?

"Your Grace," said Davos, "the cost . . ."
"I know the cost! Last night, gazing into that hearth, I saw things in the flames as well. I saw a king, a crown of fire on his brows, burning . . . burning, Davos. His own crown consumed his flesh and turned him into ash. Do you think I need Melisandre to tell me what that means? Or you?" The king moved, so his shadow fell upon King's Landing. "If Joffrey should die . . . what is the life of one bastard boy against a kingdom?"
"Everything," said Davos, softly.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

I just find it funny how they keep trying really, really, REALLY hard to sell that Jon is dead in interviews...and NOBODY believes them. Mostly because everyone knows how titanically stupid that would be.

Also, it looks like Olly is now going down in the "Most Hate Game of Thrones Character" Hall of Fame. AS if he wasn't insufferable enough.

 

[The Harkinator]

So yeah, that's my thoughts on his death. I know a lot of people are disappointed that he's not going to sit on the Iron Throne and I can sympathise, but I always felt the writing was on the wall with Stannis. Everyone who's read the books tells me he's practically perfect in every way, and I wish that was the version we got here, but the fact that his book counterpart is knocking around with the Lord of Light (and is written full time by George R. R. Martin) makes me doubt Book!Stannis is in for a happier ending.

I wouldn't say 'practically perfect', and I'm a big fan of BookStannis. Lots of what you've been told about him is possibly overcompensation for the character assassination he's had throughout his entire time on Game of Thrones. He got the rawest deal of probably any character on the show, and a lot of it looks like it's because Benioff and Weiss don't like/understand his character.

Stannis isn't a perfect ruler by any means, but he's a very complex and interesting character. The only person vying for the throne that doesn't WANT it for the power or desire to rule, but because it's his legal right and duty. He's also the only ruler to act in the interest of the Seven Kingdoms, when he defeats Mance Rayder's army and saves the Nights Watch.

Unfortunately, it's hard to criticise his portrayal in the show without it looking like nitpicking. Lots of examples of how they diminish his character into bog-standard villain are subtle things, or small differences. But they add up a lot. The biggest thing Benioff and Weiss like to do is change the context of his actions. One example is when Stannis burns his bannermen (and one of his relatives to boot!) in the show, the reason given is he didn't renounce the Seven, worshipping false gods. In the books the man he burns (Alester Florent, related to Queen Selyse) tried to betray him to the Lannisters, which completely changes the reasons for his actions and the meaning of them too.

If you can find interviews with Benioff and Weiss from Season 2, they both say Stannis would make a bad king but think Renly would be brilliant. Having read the books myself, and thinking of a couple of quotes in particular, I can't disagree enough with that thinking. I also can't help but think they've let their personal bias alter some parts of the show. Lots of it reads like Daenerys fan fic at this point, and everything she says and does is framed to make it look like an epic speech of awesomeness which completely discards the complex character she is in the books. None of that "great conqueror terrible ruler" stuff, she's just the unambiguous heroine.

Following the Burning of Shireen with Daenerys riding Drogon is scriptwriting straight out of a fan fic:

"Stannis is a bad man. He is evil and burns his daughter because Melisandre told him to, so he did it straight away. Then he burns his daughter alive. Then Daenerys looks sad because she opened the fighting pits. That was bad and it made her feel bad. Jorah wins the fight and he loves Daenerys, he saves her life. There is a big fight. Jorah, Tyrion, and Daario fight for Daenerys because everyone loves her. Missandei holds hands with Daenerys because she loves her. There is an awesome fight. Then Drogon flies in and saves Daenerys, she flies away on Drogon and looks really cool and awesome. The end."

 

[The Harkinator]

Personally, I didn't like the final episode. It was the culmination of about 4 or 5 different plot threads that had been going on this season, and the success and failure of each hinged on how well each plotline had done so far.

The Stannis stuff didn't work at all. There was nobody left to sympathise with in that particular storyline after burning Shireen. Rooting for Stannis to defeat the Boltons was what fuelled the drama of it, and to make the audience stop rooting for the character cuts off any interest or tension. It just becomes things happening on a screen that the audience has no engament with or interest in. In addition, it ended up being just another notch on the belt of Villain Sue Ramsay Bolton. He's never failed at anything, which removes any tension from what he's doing. He was never in any danger in this climactic clash, it was just putting down a storyline Benioff and Weiss irreparably damaged in Episode 9.

Brienne had no satisfying end to things either. She killed Stannis, but it was more of a formality than anything at this point. An inevitable thing in the story based on Stannis being set up to be deserted and fail, then Brienne comes in after being absent for half a season and just kill him. She's had a rubbish season IMO, but at this point in the books she sort of did anyway. She spends all her time on the page wandering around the Riverlands getting defeated and beaten up by everyone she comes across. *yawn*

The Dorne stuff never worked in the first place, but the ending had some good scenes between Jaime and Myrcella. But the Sand Snakes were still cringeworthy "Yuuu want der baaddd pussssyyyy!" was simply awful. Plus Ellaria Sand winning in the end rendered much of it pointless. It was just giving Jaime and ESPECIALLY Bronn something to do this season. That's never a good thing storytelling wise.

Arya's storyline lost my interest a bit a few episodes ago, as her time in the House of Black and White dragged on and on. Once again, her bits in the books at this point aren't great either. Killing Meryn Trant had no suspense about it, she was going to succeed. Also, the thing with Trant being a paedo was unnecessary. We know he's a bad guy, and we want him to die because he's on Arya's list and we're supposed to be rooting for her in this storyline. No need to tick some extra villain boxes for the sake of it.

The Daenerys/Meereen stuff worked well for the most part. Daenerys herself didn't have much to do and her interactions with Drogon weren't up to much, but the arrival of the Khalasar was decently shot and advanced her plotline. The interactions between Tyrion, Daario, and Jorah were entertaining and good to watch, as was the return of Varys. Plenty of people to root for in that storyline, and some decent dialogue means that one is working for now. Maybe Jorah and Daario will do an adventure pairing better than Jaime and Bronn did this season.

The Cersei scenes were very well done. It stayed true to the source material, was well shot, and Lena Headey did some great acting on the walk without saying a word. It went on a little too long but I think that might have been the point, sort of. Anyways, this bit worked and I'm glad they got it right. Nice to see Ser Kevan back too, I really like Ian Gelder's scenes at the start of the season and I want to see a bit more of him next time around. He'll be the one responsible for keeping Tommen on the throne next season and I'm really looking forward to him interacting with Olenna (if they do so) and the rest of the Small Council. I'm really looking forward to his scenes with Pycelle since he (like Tywin) will likely see through the Grand Maester's act. Still think they shouldn't have deleted the scene where Tywin tells Pycelle he knows the doddering act is bullshit.

The Jon Snow stuff was similarly well done. I do wish I'd seen a few more members of the watch upset about it though. Going through with it with tears in their eyes. Still, very well done from them and a great ending to a struggling season and poor episode. Wondering what Davos is going to do now, I hope he'll stick around but I don't know what he'll do.

Some of the mistakes made this season are basic storytelling errors. The audience engages with certain characters in the narrative, they either sympathise, admire, or respect these characters. Rooting for the characters they like to succeed in their goals is what fuels the audience's interest in the plot. Without it, the audience has nobody to root for and loses all engagement with a particular plotline. In a show like Game of Thrones, having several different plotlines means the audience really needs a character to root for in each one, or they'll become bored with that particular plot and ignore it.

In addition, there was so much padding and bad acting in this season. It's a given that having had so many actors in the show some of them were going to be bad, but the Sand Snakes were awful, Ellaria was pretty bad too, and that being put in the Dorne plotline which was heavily padded and the centrepiece fight badly choreographed didn't help either.

Still, as Season 6 moves past the limits of the books, it moves beyond my knowledge and I'm hopeful that what happens next season will be better. I can but hope, and even when Game of Thrones is rubbish, there's usually something in an episode worth watching.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

If you can find interviews with Benioff and Weiss from Season 2, they both say Stannis would make a bad king but think Renly would be brilliant. Having read the books myself, and thinking of a couple of quotes in particular, I can't disagree enough with that thinking. I also can't help but think they've let their personal bias alter some parts of the show. Lots of it reads like Daenerys fan fic at this point, and everything she says and does is framed to make it look like an epic speech of awesomeness which completely discards the complex character she is in the books. None of that "great conqueror terrible ruler" stuff, she's just the unambiguous heroine.

The thing about Renly is this: he was just another Robert in the making. At best he wouldn't be whoring and drinking, but there is no way he could do tough administrative decisions. Furthermore, it was debatable if he would have been able to even win the war; he just wasn't a tactician, had no real battle experience, and of course was not the type of person to fight on the front lines. The problem is that popularity doesn't mean you'd make a good ruler because sometimes a ruler must make tough decisions that are unpopular because the right choice is often one that people aren't going to like.

Which is something Dany also has problems with. People keep bringing up how she's this great leader and destined to sit on the Iron Throne, but time and time again she just shows that she's a fuckup. The only reasons she's not dead by now is because A) her advisers are a lot smarter, more experienced, and more pragmatic than she is and B) she keeps getting lucky.

 

[The Harkinator]

If you can find interviews with Benioff and Weiss from Season 2, they both say Stannis would make a bad king but think Renly would be brilliant. Having read the books myself, and thinking of a couple of quotes in particular, I can't disagree enough with that thinking. I also can't help but think they've let their personal bias alter some parts of the show. Lots of it reads like Daenerys fan fic at this point, and everything she says and does is framed to make it look like an epic speech of awesomeness which completely discards the complex character she is in the books. None of that "great conqueror terrible ruler" stuff, she's just the unambiguous heroine.

The thing about Renly is this: he was just another Robert in the making. At best he wouldn't be whoring and drinking, but there is no way he could do tough administrative decisions. Furthermore, it was debatable if he would have been able to even win the war; he just wasn't a tactician, had no real battle experience, and of course was not the type of person to fight on the front lines. The problem is that popularity doesn't mean you'd make a good ruler because sometimes a ruler must make tough decisions that are unpopular because the right choice is often one that people aren't going to like.

Which is something Dany also has problems with. People keep bringing up how she's this great leader and destined to sit on the Iron Throne, but time and time again she just shows that she's a fuckup. The only reasons she's not dead by now is because A) her advisers are a lot smarter, more experienced, and more pragmatic than she is and B) she keeps getting lucky.

I don't even think Renly was much of a Robert in the making. At least Robert left the ruling of the Seven Kingdoms to Jon Arryn and his competent council while he went off and enjoyed himself.

Renly would have been a puppet of the Tyrells, doing whatever they told him to do. You're right that he wouldn't make the tough decisions. He has no experience or knowledge on that sort of thing, and while he is loved by many he's not respected.

I think Benioff and Weiss have their own ideas what makes a good ruler, and have decided that it's being loved and popular, rather than doing ones duty. Renly was charismatic and tried to be nice and fair, but he had no competence as a King. He didn't know how to lead men into battle nor keep order in the kingdoms, but Benioff and Weiss think he'd be great because people like him personally.

As for Daenerys, she's surrounded by yes-men as a result of her inspiring devotion in her followers, and in the books she's a terrible ruler. It's an extra bit of complexity for her character, and offers an excellent parallel to Robert Baratheon. Plus providing the double edged sword of her inspiring devotion in her followers, her advisers all think every decision she makes is the bees knees because she made it.

They've really flanderised the main characters, and let their bias affect that too.

 

[WolfThomas]

I'm not mad just...disappointed.

I get it. The medium isn't deep enough to express the morally grey antihero of the books. But why do it this way. If you want a villain make him the bloodthirsty slave of a firegod who crushes the Boltons. If you want a tragic hero make him the dad who won't give up his daughter and loses bravely.

This middle ground ambiguity was pure shit. I want to feel conflict when Brienne killls him not relief. My only hope is they don't assassinate his character further after his death.

 

[Silence]

My highlight of the last episode was the dothraki riding a huge circle around Dany, while only the first arrivals would have seen what exactly they would have circled. Also, some riders rode out of the cliffs.
So clowny. The cringe.
Also the kiss from the whatever-her-name-is was soooo obvious. She kissed, and I was just like "OH, COME ON, I KNOW WHAT HAPPENS NOW."

I actually would like most of the storylines, aside from Dorne (cutting Arianne was a dumb idea from the start, I knew it, I posted that this character holds the Dorne plot together, and it turned out to be true), if they didn't start to make so many quality errors. Bloated Guppy pretty much sums it up.

Also, Stannis has a place as the 1000th commander of the Night's Watch. Killing him off like that, please.

 

[Evonisia]

Damn, Stannis, you took away all the joy I could have gotten out of Brienne's revenge.

It felt more like a "well, while I'm in the neighbourhood" affair than the culmination of three years of a desire for revenge.

Stannis appears to be one, of what, four deaths in this newest episode that get cut off before you see it? Oooo, which ones will be alive in Season 6? Tune in to find out! Just a bit of a shameful ending for him, though after that last episode, why not? He deserved worse.

 

[DanteRL]

It all stems from Aemon's "love is the death of duty" speech, and most probably culminates in a Nissa Nissa moment, if you genuinely believe Jon is Azor Ahai.

That's one thing that got me. Nissa Nissa dies, right? So Azor's sword can be forged? So if Jon has to be Nissa, then his death would be necessary, for some magical reason that I absolutely can't explain, but might involve Melissandre, Longclaw and/or some fire. (Either that, or Olly is Azor Ahai, OOH BOY!). Anyway, this might just have trully being Jon's last moment, which sucks balls. Really since the show can't have the same depth as the books, some deaths seems to come purely for shock value, characters can't have development having good moments, only if it's followed by something bad. Stannis had two of those moments with his daughter, before deciding that "Nah, she has to burn", Jamie and Myrcella had theirs (albeit a bit creepy), so she can't be poisoned.

And that doesn't make a lot of sense, because now, Ellaria just inverted the situation. The Dornish had a Lannister with them, that could be used if necessary. Now, Ellaria fucked the Lannister, will make them angry AND just gave the prince to them, like THAT. The whole Dorne plot seemed to be just so that Sand girl can show her boobs to Bronn.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

That's one thing that got me. Nissa Nissa dies, right? So Azor's sword can be forged? So if Jon has to be Nissa, then his death would be necessary, for some magical reason that I absolutely can't explain, but might involve Melissandre, Longclaw and/or some fire. (Either that, or Olly is Azor Ahai, OOH BOY!). Anyway, this might just have trully being Jon's last moment, which sucks balls. Really since the show can't have the same depth as the books, some deaths seems to come purely for shock value, characters can't have development having good moments, only if it's followed by something bad. Stannis had two of those moments with his daughter, before deciding that "Nah, she has to burn", Jamie and Myrcella had theirs (albeit a bit creepy), so she can't be poisoned.

Nissa Nissa dies, yes. So that Azor Ahai can have his magic sword. The most likely reading of the text is that Jon is Azor Ahai. Which would make someone else, likely yet to be established, his Nissa Nissa. As to him being dead, it's rather convenient that Melisandre came riding back to Castle Black right before his death, yeah? And that she was there all along in the books? And that the story has established a tenuous wall between life and death already? And that Jon is lying in a big ol' pool of King's Blood? Etc, etc.

I guarantee you, you've not seen the last of ol' Jon Snow.

And that doesn't make a lot of sense, because now, Ellaria just inverted the situation. The Dornish had a Lannister with them, that could be used if necessary. Now, Ellaria fucked the Lannister, will make them angry AND just gave the prince to them, like THAT. The whole Dorne plot seemed to be just so that Sand girl can show her boobs to Bronn.

The Dorne plot wasn't FOR anything. It was the result of the show writers being hacks.

 

[McElroy]

I gotta say some of the Dorne stuff bordered on insultingly ridiculous, but I don't watch it for the plot. The sets, cinematography and direction are consistently good even with the stupid writing messing things up. Too bad they killed Stannis off like that, I was expecting a better fight... Myranda finished off nicely though! He-he-he

 

[DanteRL]

It just ocurred me... What if they burn Jon Snow's body?? The Targaryen theory would finally be put at test...