Game protagonists who show weakness

[Overusedname]

I recommend...basically every JRPG ever made. Even the open ended ones. Even the bad ones.

Tidus and Yuna (who both share the spotlight almost equally in FF10) act as beacons of hope and positivity for most of the game. Tidus for the team, Yuna for...well, the planet. But they have a powerful moment together where they both reveal their weaknesses together. They each have one crying scene, with Yuna revealing her genuine fear of the sacrifice she committed to, realizing how much she's come to love being alive. Tidus cries at the fact that he never settled things with his father, and has to fight him, as well as say goodbye to his allies forever (unless blah blah sequel spoilers)

I personally think story-based Western games have a very flimsy perception of humanity in comparison to the east's efforts in videogame storytelling. I'll probably be filleted for that assertion, but for every Bioshock I can show you 5 Namco Tales games.

 

[King of Asgaard]

I cannot think of a single protagonist in a videogame who shows weakness, which may be one the primary reasons why games tend to be terrible at character and plot development. The lack of a interesting and believable protagonist will hold back any story no matter how good.


My theory suggests that in an attempt to my the player feel empowered, game designers have severly inhabited there protagonists from acting like people with faults and weaknesses.


Can you name a game protagonist who has weaknesses and contradict my theory?

You mean other than:

Spoiler

and many more....

Yeah, I wondered if you actually play any games with characters in them or not...

Thank you for this post; it's basically exactly what I was going to say.

 

[TheDuckbunny]

Niko Bellic is a flawed character in a lot of ways. On the one hand he's tormented, cynical and violent and on the other hand he's gullible and socially clumsy. I'd say he's a very well written character with more weaknesses than strengths.

 

[Casual Shinji]

The prince from Prince of Persia: Sands of Time.

He's a cocky bastard who gets his own father killed and palace destroyed, and needs to put his trust in a woman he helped imprison. And he remains delightfuly cocky thoughout most of the game, commenting on how Farah (the woman) is very spirited and independent, but he's up to the challenge to tame her.

 

[Casual Shinji]

are you fucking kidding me?

i am an alcoholic that constantly makes stupid and/or bad decisions that end up with almost everyone i like or love killed.

and i am aware of that.

Except in Max Payne 3 the flawed character angle is so overplayed that it's just becomes comical.

 

[Zhukov]

Well, we can't have the big ol' macho power fantasy being impeded by our mega-manly hero sitting down and having a sook, now can we?

However, it does happen every now and again.
- Jade in Beyond Good & Evil. ("You were wrong, boy. You were dead wrong.")
- Altiar in Assassin's Creed. (Albeit in a very bland and hackneyed manner.)
- Lee in The Walking Dead.
- Isaac in Dead Space 2.
- April Ryan in The Longest Journey.
- Zoe Whatshername in Dreamfall.
- The Prince in Sands of Time.
- Shepard in ME3. (Surprisingly enough.)

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

Actually, in one of the most genuinely believable display of emotions I think I've seen in a video game, Joseph Capelli in Resitance 3 reacts to

Spoiler

Malikov's death

by having a small tantrum at his own lack of power. If you've seen it you know what I mean, it went more towards making his character relatable than all that shit with the kid's mitten.

But, there are actually plenty more. I'm guessing you haven't played too many games before reaching this conclusion...?

 

[an annoyed writer]

He was mentioned here before, but I'm going to lay down a case for Adam Jensen.

Spoiler

He was nearly killed at the beginning of the game, with his ex-girlfriend presumably killed. It took six months for him to be in fighting shape, and you can see from his home and office that those six months did not treat him well. His house is a mess, he's got plenty of liquor bottles in both places, his dog's dead, and you can tell from the cracked mirror that Jensen struggled with his humanity after he was augmented. He is pretty much alone, with only a few core people chiming in every now and then, and only a couple of them can be trusted. How's that for flawed?

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

First off, can I say that this is an excellent forum? I wholeheartedly agree that protagonists need to show more of their humanity. I wrote a blog on Red Dead Wiki about how John Marston is one of my all-time favourite characters, because of how human he is.

I agree that a lot of it may be simply for the sake of empowerment, and its a trend I wish would stop. Off the top of my head, I can say that I like Ethan Mars, simply because he's an average bloke.

I remember in a recent video for Obsidian's Project Eternity where Chris Avellone (one of Obsidian's writers) goes on about how he writes companion characters so that they stroke the player's ego. Really, Avellone? REALLY? This is a major reason why I can only take Western RPG writing half-seriously. The protagonists are never properly flawed and anytime someone does throw criticism it's presented in the most strawman manner possible. Game writers, start actually writing characters instead of using games to make players big-headed. Maybe then narrative will actually improve for the medium.

 

[mjcabooseblu]

Ethan Mars: Depressed, with a loosened grip on reality.
Ezio Auditore: Plagued for much of Assassin's Creed 2 by immaturity.
Alcatraz: Physically wrecked, entirely dependent on his suit to live.
Solid Snake: Old as shit.
Jack Ryan: There's a big one, but it's a hefty spoiler.
Cole Phelps: Haunted by his unsavory actions as a soldier.
Atrus: Too absorbed in his own work to pay attention to his family, often bringing misfortune with him.
Daniel: Physically incapable of combat, mental state easily shaken by disturbing sights.

There's plenty.

 

[Nopenahnuhuh]

I cannot think of a single protagonist in a videogame who shows weakness, which may be one the primary reasons why games tend to be terrible at character and plot development. The lack of a interesting and believable protagonist will hold back any story no matter how good.


My theory suggests that in an attempt to my the player feel empowered, game designers have severly inhabited there protagonists from acting like people with faults and weaknesses.


Can you name a game protagonist who has weaknesses and contradict my theory?

The prince from prince of Persia Sands of time on the PS2. He was flawed, he was impulsive and more often then not that got him into a few very tough scrapes, not to mention his affection blinded him to his companion's true goal who not only played him for a chump (albeit clearly feeling bad for thinking of doing so) and which got him pretty much screwed in the end.

CoD4: MW also had a brilliant moment of weakness, where after clearing out half a city's population worth of enemies a nuke comes down whilst you're on the air and the radiation poisoning slowly kills you as you crawl out of the downed chopper. It really grants a sense of danger and completely changes the face of the game after that.

Batman Arkham Asylum and Arkham city are perfect examples of a powerfull, however vulnerable, protagonist. Batman might be the goddamn batman, but a lowly thug can get you killed if you screw up during a brawl or if you're caught by a henchmen wielding a machine gun. Both games also convey batman's slow deterioration via his suit getting visibily damaged after big events and as you progress you also see batman's demeanor slowly changing towards a more tired and "I've no more time for this BS" fashion, indicating that despite being a badass super-hero, he's just a man, he has limitations and is only as skilled as the player allows him to be.

Let's not forget Super Meat boy, 1 hit kill, everything. He's determined, if only just.

 

[Something Amyss]

Define "shows weakness."

My first thought was Cloud from FFVII. Dude has a breakdown in the middle of the game, for one.

Walker from Spec Ops: The Line seems to fit. Hell, the premise of the game is that there are only bad decisions and worse ones, so it even seems like a core element.

Snake? I'm not a MGS fan, but Snake and Raiden both seem to have shown weakness, and Snake still apparently kept his badass rank.

 

[Marik Bentusi]

JRPGs tend to be about teenagers challenged in one way or another. There's a popular theory saying that Japan was so psychologically broken after WW2 that generation of adults basically couldn't serve as rolemodels, so the country at large turned to Western influences (causing the contermporary gap between tech-neophiles and traditionalists) and produced a generation of adults without an adult compass. You can see reflections of that in otaku, anime and manga culture, but I'm not sure if it's evidence enough.
The author of Neon Genesis Evangelion was quoted to believe in that theory tho, and I'll certainly buy it from him as an individual influence.

Many Western games tend to be more about gruff gritty power & freedom fantasies. Which is why the FPS is so big here. If there's a problem, it's often a) just another challenge to overcome, nothing that shakes the core of the character; or b) something that adds to the character. Military veterans incorporate an image of masculinity that's not quite compatible an optimist, idealistic energetic attitude. Batman's the perfect example. He's cool because of how dark he is. Tho of course people have mistaken dark for profound ever since their first heart-broken world-confronting poem in 10th grade.

Of course there's still a number of exceptions to be found. I like erttheking's example, tho I don't think it qualifies because Alcatraz is still a rather character-devoid protagonist hull. I still like that they put a twist on the superhero trope tho. Alcatraz is pretty useless without the suit, and completely useless without any military hardware whatsoever. Power comes from without. The hero himself doesn't grow. He's nothing but a grunt without his tools. It's a somewhat refreshing view on the whole Citizen Soldier idea, that any one-dimensional person can be a badass with the right gear. Very modern Western view I think. Very intriguing.

/ramble
/opinion.

 

[bafrali]

Dante: The game's name is Devil May CRY for God's sake.

 

[LordFeast58]

are you fucking kidding me?

i am an alcoholic that constantly makes stupid and/or bad decisions that end up with almost everyone i like or love killed.

and i am aware of that.

Except in Max Payne 3 the flawed character angle is so overplayed that it's just becomes comical.

yes, but it still fits the search the op is conducting.

aww, your post makes me drepressed. i am going to drink until i dont remember a word of it while keeping my expert marksmanship. that marksmanship also remains while i should shake like a leaf due Alcohol withdrawal sympthoms.

yeah....

the first max was believable, the second was were it started to get cheesy and the third took the whole cheesecake of cheesiness

(SOME SPOILER) Sometimes I just can't understand people's emotion when playing the game or watching the story of a broken man who may have the skill of a perfect marksman. Some may or may not understand the emotion is painful when he just keep shooting hundreds of guys as well as the suffering that have been haunted him since the first Max Payne, until the conclusion that I'm glad he finally found peace.

I never find any game personality that connects me more to Max than any other character that I find 'cheesy' and not worth to talk about. People say that Max Payne is cheesy sounds really awkward and I just don't get all the hate. Please evaluate the reason that Max Payne 3 shows a terrible character or a terrible example for this topic.

 

[Lt._nefarious]

Well James from Silent Hill 2 is weak, cowardly, crazy, stupid and really comes of as a bit of a dick at times. He spends the most of the game having no idea what is going on and the only other "normal" people he either kills, angers or frightens...
Daniel from Amnesia is weak and has the mental stability of a cocaine addled Jason Voorhees.
Everyone in Heavy Rain has a weakness, insomnia, depression, overweight and drug abusing respectively.
Alan Wake frequently makes bad decisions, like getting out of his face on booze, and literally writes himself into a corner.

 

[Padwolf]

No mentions of Silent Hill 2? Oh yay there is one ^_^ My favourite game of all time. Go and try that one, OP, the game tends to revolve around James weaknesses and state of mind.

Alan Wake is another good one for that.
Metal Gear Solid, Snake and Raiden and a few others all show some weakness throughout the game.
Heavy Rain is filled with characters that all have a weakness.
LA Noire, GO PLAY THIS GAME!!! Detective Cole Phelps is often haunted by the memory of the war, haunted by his own actions.
Lost Odyssey. I don't know whether to call it weakness or strength, it's shown as both. The protagnist is bothered by what he is, what he has seen and been through, and it shows in all the stories told through the game.
Dead Space.
Silent Hill Shattered Memories
Alice: Madness Returns
Final Fantasy (most of them)

There are many more out there, go and enjoy!

 

[spartan231490]

Assassin's creed when altair begins as a deluded blind follower.

 

[redmoretrout]

The prince from prince of Persia Sands of time on the PS2. He was flawed, he was impulsive and more often then not that got him into a few very tough scrapes, not to mention his affection blinded him to his companion's true goal who not only played him for a chump (albeit clearly feeling bad for thinking of doing so) and which got him pretty much screwed in the end.

Thats a damn good example of a flawed character touché.

CoD4: MW also had a brilliant moment of weakness, where after clearing out half a city's population worth of enemies a nuke comes down whilst you're on the air and the radiation poisoning slowly kills you as you crawl out of the downed chopper. It really grants a sense of danger and completely changes the face of the game after that.

I don't usually play the campaigns of those games so I don't know the particular scene your are talking about. However, it sounds like the protagonist gives his life for his country becoming a martyr for whatever cause he fought for. When a soldier dies on a battlefield no one thinks less of him, indeed quite the opposite people respect or even admire that. That doesnt seem like a weakness to me.

Batman Arkham Asylum and Arkham city are perfect examples of a powerfull, however vulnerable, protagonist. Batman might be the goddamn batman, but a lowly thug can get you killed if you screw up during a brawl or if you're caught by a henchmen wielding a machine gun. Both games also convey batman's slow deterioration via his suit getting visibily damaged after big events and as you progress you also see batman's demeanor slowly changing towards a more tired and "I've no more time for this BS" fashion, indicating that despite being a badass super-hero, he's just a man, he has limitations and is only as skilled as the player allows him to be.

A man overcoming enormous obstacles despite all odds and contining push forward despite his wounds is not a weakness. He is only vulnerable to make his victories more heroic and impressive. There is never a moment where Batman doubts himself, he never shows any sign of being fearful or intimidated. The player never feels outmatched as he always has a gadget or trick up his sleeve. Every player know for certain that Batman will succeed, and is never given cause to doubt this. (I mean storywise, of course the player can die, at the end of the game Batman WILL save Gotham.)

 

[Milkman]

First off, can I say that this is an excellent forum? I wholeheartedly agree that protagonists need to show more of their humanity. I wrote a blog on Red Dead Wiki about how John Marston is one of my all-time favourite characters, because of how human he is.

I agree that a lot of it may be simply for the sake of empowerment, and its a trend I wish would stop. Off the top of my head, I can say that I like Ethan Mars, simply because he's an average bloke.

I remember in a recent video for Obsidian's Project Eternity where Chris Avellone (one of Obsidian's writers) goes on about how he writes companion characters so that they stroke the player's ego. Really, Avellone? REALLY? This is a major reason why I can only take Western RPG writing half-seriously. The protagonists are never properly flawed and anytime someone does throw criticism it's presented in the most strawman manner possible. Game writers, start actually writing characters instead of using games to make players big-headed. Maybe then narrative will actually improve for the medium.

That's just ridiculous. I really hate it when writers try to hard to make characters too much of an utter badass. I mean, it works for Dante, but more serious stories need realistic characters who aren't characters at all, but people. I need to believe that the person as whom I'm playing is a person with a life outside the plot; the best way to do this is by showing us their humanity.