Gameloft's Apparently A Terrible Place To Work

Braedan

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Sep 14, 2010
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I'm sure I would be fired quite quickly, but my response to unpaid overtime will always be a resounding "NO".

Bosses try to "make as much money as possible" yet when employees try to do the same they get fired.

Edit: Also, this crunch shit, is just that, shit. If your management can't allot the right amount of time to make your game it shouldn't be taken out on the developers. Just because "it's what they all do", doesn't make it right.
 

Jumplion

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doomboy29 said:
These kinds of stories are becoming more and more common lately haven't they?
They've always been common, just not been exposed for the disgusting reality that it is.

EverythingIncredible said:
120 hours a week is about normal when it comes to crunch time. But you have to treat the staff with respect during this time.
Here's the thing, though; what were they in crunch time for? In some cases, perpetual crunch time of 6 to 8 months consecutively are not uncommon, and that's just to get the game into a regular milestone. The higher-ups seems to think that crunch time can make up for lousy planning and management. It's become so wide-spread that I can't believe more noise hasn't been made about this until now.

Orcboyphil said:
Sounds like somebody couldn't handle the crunch. I hear that pretty much all studios go through the exact same thing when a release gets close to gold. Normally you get a few weeks off after this period in order to relax.
Read what I said above, and we don't know what Watson and his crew were in crunch time for. But when does it turn from "someone couldn't take the heat" to "we need to stop this kind of shit"? These kinds of things are why so many developers are burned out by the industry so early in their careers. Of course some crunch time is necessary when shit hits the fan, but not with crap like this.

It's deplorable and it has to stop. Crunch time like this does nothing to help development and rips off developers on a salary payment. Devs like Insomniac hardly suffer any kind of crunch time and they make great games regardless of it. This. Has. To. Stop.
 

Jezzascmezza

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Not surprising, really, considering the enormous quantity of games that Gameloft churns out at an alarmingly frequent rate.
 

Twad

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Braedan said:
I'm sure I would be fired quite quickly, but my response to unpaid overtime will always be a resounding "NO".
Same feeling here.
All that time, energy, studies/skills have to be fairly paid.
And i have doubts that "bonuses" and employees "advantages" are worth the same as the potential unpaid overtime. Plus it -seems- to be a trend in the game industry, not paying overtime as they should. Lots of rumors going around, but are they true or not?
 

RvLeshrac

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Oct 2, 2008
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Twad said:
Braedan said:
I'm sure I would be fired quite quickly, but my response to unpaid overtime will always be a resounding "NO".
Same feeling here.
All that time, energy, studies/skills have to be fairly paid.
And i have doubts that "bonuses" and employees "advantages" are worth the same as the potential unpaid overtime. Plus it -seems- to be a trend in the game industry, not paying overtime as they should. Lots of rumors going around, but are they true or not?
Then you're fired. Good luck finding another job. I'm not being facetious. You will be terminated.

The worst part is the chorus of morons who say this treatment should be *accepted*. There are consequences for refusing to be subject to these conditions, but they shouldn't be accepted by anyone.

If people stop allowing themselves to be abused by employers, employers won't have a choice but to stop abusing their employees.
 

bobisimo

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This has to stop, yes. We've created a disposable climate, burn out the talent and hire replacements. The problem, or "a" problem, as I see it, is that many developers and/or publishers see success as only happening when it arrives on the back of an aesthetically-beautiful game. They want something that competes with GTA 4 or Battlefield 3. And they want those games ready to ship Q4 2012, none of that "7 years in development" L.A Noire garbage that eats up the profit margin. Games have become huge business. They're not being made in basements anymore by hobbyists having fun. Well, indy games like Minecraft, maybe they are. But not the big-budget titles. How do you stop? You either a) spread out the hours so no one crunches, but games take forever to complete, b) make smaller/episodic games with more DLC, c) I don't know. Come up with a magic formula?
 

Formica Archonis

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doomboy29 said:
These kinds of stories are becoming more and more common lately haven't they?
Not really. Seems like once every two years a few of the abuses come to the surface, we rage, then it dies down and all the studios that didn't get hit breathe a sigh of relief and get back to cracking the whip.
 

Starke

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RvLeshrac said:
Twad said:
Braedan said:
I'm sure I would be fired quite quickly, but my response to unpaid overtime will always be a resounding "NO".
Same feeling here.
All that time, energy, studies/skills have to be fairly paid.
And i have doubts that "bonuses" and employees "advantages" are worth the same as the potential unpaid overtime. Plus it -seems- to be a trend in the game industry, not paying overtime as they should. Lots of rumors going around, but are they true or not?
Then you're fired. Good luck finding another job. I'm not being facetious. You will be terminated.

The worst part is the chorus of morons who say this treatment should be *accepted*. There are consequences for refusing to be subject to these conditions, but they shouldn't be accepted by anyone.

If people stop allowing themselves to be abused by employers, employers won't have a choice but to stop abusing their employees.
Except, this is kinda the problem with the industry. There are always more people wanting in, than there are positions. There was an article a couple months back, where a psychologist observed that the perception of being replaceable really facilitates this kind of managerial behavior. The unspoken threat seems to be: "You don't want to put up with our bullshit? Fine. Go fuck off. It's not like there aren't kids fresh out of college lining up to replace you."
 

samsonguy920

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I hope this complaint is legit, because otherwise this guy is being a complete self-serving ass that just screwed over the people he was working with. I have to wonder how the job hunting is going for him, as well.
Worgen said:
its shit like this that made me decide going into the game industry was stupid
Don't expect any other industry to be nicer. Places are finding it cheaper to just work shorter staffs longer hours. Like mine. Which right now I don't mind so much. But that could change with time.
 

Jumplion

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bobisimo said:
...How do you stop? You either a) spread out the hours so no one crunches, but games take forever to complete, b) make smaller/episodic games with more DLC, c) I don't know. Come up with a magic formula?
It should never, ever come down to those kinds of decisions for developers. Insomniac games is one of the best game companies to work with and they consistently put out great games with little to no crunch time whatsoever. Some crunch time is understandable, shit hits the fan every now and again, but for perpetual crunch time going on for many developers it's just maddening.

It should never come down to making a quality game or getting a game out on time. If the management did their jobs correctly, that shouldn't even happen. Instead, the higher-ups in game development think it's okay to work their employees to death and squeeze out every last man-hour they can out of them with no overtime and no benefits. It's ridiculous, and we need to call developers out on that (looking at you, Extra Credits...)
 

bobisimo

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Jumplion, I hear you. I really do. There are a lot of great companies out there. I think if you're smart, like the good companies are, you can get it done the right way without exploiting your talent and ruining them.

But I don't think you can make the next Battlefield 3 or GTA 4 or L.A. Noire or whatever, that title that represents a brand new engine and technology with all new assets, without investing a ton of overtime hours for a very large team over a long period of time -- a long period of time that is nowhere near as long as it should be.

Those games sell big numbers (they need to, at least), and that appeals to those involved on the business side. Plus there's something appealing about creating something so monumentally big, even if it's as bad as the recent Transformers movie.

If we follow suit with the Insomniac approach -- simpler, stylized graphics, more focus on the game's design, etc. -- then maybe we're all in a better place. But I don't know that gamers will ever stop wanting those big-budget titles, nor do I think developers will ever want to stop making them.

Maybe I'm creating/relying on a lot of fallacies along the way, but that's how I get to a point where I see the options I mentioned earlier as the only viable routes to take this. We can make a game and then build on that foundation -- which kind of seems to be the Assassin's Creed approach. Maybe that is the best real-world situation. :\
 
Sep 14, 2009
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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Four consecutive weeks of fourteen hour days...

Sorry...I'm calling bull on that, I've done 70 hour weeks and that's put me into mental exhaustion. If you're pulling a 100 hour week, you'd be losing your marbles after a fortnight. Even with some of the workloads I know some people have, you simply cannot do that.
if you want/need money, it is highly possible.

a few summers back I worked the college world series (national baseball tourny in my city if you haven't heard of it) and we'd work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week (sometimes running the stands, sometimes doing inventory/moving supplies, and sometimes just management type stuff) but that was 84 hours a week, for 3 weeks, and i averaged out to 5 bucks an hour (was fucking pissed off, but needed the money to pay off car)

and daily after everything, they forced staff to park the furthest away, which means they reserved a lot 2 miles away (literally) and it was in a horrible neighborhood so me and my friends would end up running the whole way each night after those 12 hours of working all day.


tl;dr

it's highly possible, but after a while it does suck huge cock and becomes very apparent that it is not worth it.
 

Babitz

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Jan 18, 2010
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This reminds me of the 'EA Spouse'. I thought conditions were getting better after that incident. I've read there have been laws made about not abusing employees like that. Guess it was all for nothing and the cycle repeats.
 

Kaymish

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Sep 10, 2008
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well i see many people saying Australia but it was not there Auckland is in a different better country, New Zealand
over here we have strict and fair employment laws if the company tries to hold him to the contract they will quickly find that it is either not legal or of dubious legality though without seeing the agreement there is no real way to see
 

mastiffchild

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May 27, 2010
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Braedan said:
I'm sure I would be fired quite quickly, but my response to unpaid overtime will always be a resounding "NO".

Bosses try to "make as much money as possible" yet when employees try to do the same they get fired.

Edit: Also, this crunch shit, is just that, shit. If your management can't allot the right amount of time to make your game it shouldn't be taken out on the developers. Just because "it's what they all do", doesn't make it right.
This is why Unions are a great thing and also why, in most industrialised nations the capitalist powers that be, that like keeping the money exactly in the same pockets it's always been in-have worked so dam hard to demonise unions and trades unionists in their Conservative owned western media outlets( which is nearly all of them).

This shonky way of behaving will, natch, be defended and justified with the "right now, in this climate...you're lucky to even have a job!" in the firm belief that some other unlucky schmoe will pick up where you left off should you have enough crappy treatment. It's all BS as we all know this isn't the way to get best work quality or best productivity from any workforce let alone a creative one. Unrealistic time frames are agreed upon by management who either lost touch with today's game development as they've moved to the money side a long way back or by people who never helped create anything in their lives so it's no wonder you see "crunch"times of months of people working 14 hrs a day for 30-40consecutive days with just the odd day off here and there. even those outside this business would defend these practises but they shouldn't as bad treatment is bad treatment and does nobody any favours in terms of quality,quantity, in terms of health for employees(mental and physical)and in terms of image and reputation of the development company involved.

What, I wonder, do companies who treat people this kind of way expect to happen when things pick up? Where are they gonna find talented people prepared to trust them in the future? Well, if we had stronger unions(and not so we can go all militant and strike whenever a boss farts too near a worker, but to help mediate and represent workers in a bid to stop situations like these spiral out of kilter. We're taught to hate unions these days in the UK and seem to forget that they weren't all about striking and Arthur Scargill but about getting a fair days pay, at fair hours for a fair amount of your work. With them there to curb the worst excesses of the company owners everyone's reputation is better off, workers should be happier and more productive and DEFINITELY will be more loyal to an employer who treats them well.


We shouldn't, though, be shocked at the greed and unfairness of an industry which, unlike ANY other on the planet assumes they deserve money from second hamnd sales of their games/work/product! I'm a musician and if someone sells on my CD do I think I should get a cut? do I think I should do a "passport" so it can now be played by this new owner? NO and NI. I think I should have made a better record that they might want to sodding well keep and will look on the buyer of the second hand copy as a possible future buyer and downloader of my future songs. Why gaming is sop over entitled is beyond me but if they want to cry about used sales and about piracy they need to stop making it a them and us situation.

They give piracy an excuse by being so wanton with their own greed that it's easy for pirates to say the industry deserves whatever we throw at them and, because we legit gamers are the ones hit again and again it becomes easy for us to turn a blind eye to the piracy we see. PSN/online passes are another dividing line that seems way unfair and short sighted to boot considering just how many of us have had, at one time, had to rely on used games just to HAVE a few games to play and now buy enough to support the industry having gone through being poor students. Does gaming REALLY want to lose today's youth and tomorrows big buyers just because they cannot be grown up about used sales and look at the bigger picture just once?

Just sick of us(gamers, workers and game development workers too)being treated like shit by the industry we keep afloat throgh thick and thin and have little clue as to just why games thinks it's always a special case. It's like any other artistic/pop art/creative entertainment industry and needs to learn that and maybe respect the people making and playing the games which fill coffers up a little better. The lack of a decent union at game devs etc will see more of this maltreatment of workers and an over entitled, out of touch industry leaving legit gamers picking up the tab for all the issues that might be sorted out if the industry was forced to show a little respect. If they DID maybe more gamers would be unwilling to turn blind eyes to piracy etc.
 

Craorach

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I wonder if some of this has to do with the Aussie mentality towards work.

"She'll be airight!" "Just cos its not done don't mean I can't leave, do it inna mornin!" "Go down the pub on break, sure I'll be half an hour late back, but its fine!"

Many Australians ***** constantly about "foreigners" taking their jobs, but are unwilling to work as hard for the same pay. They also tend to have less serious, disciplined, approaches to their work.

That's not to say that these hours are not unreasonable.. they are and ALL games companies should be investing in larger staff and longer development cycles to ensure there is NO crunch for ANY game. But we should take into account that the Australian work culture might well affect their willingness to accept what is considered an industry standard.