Gameloft's Apparently A Terrible Place To Work

[Jumplion]

But I don't think you can make the next Battlefield 3 or GTA 4 or L.A. Noire or whatever, that title that represents a brand new engine and technology with all new assets, without investing a ton of overtime hours for a very large team over a long period of time -- a long period of time that is nowhere near as long as it should be.

See now, I have to wonder how much crunch time those big-time developers really do. L.A. Noire took 7 years, not because they were spit-shining the game to perfection, but because they had piss-poor management, they fired/hired people left and right, there was no focused direction, and McNamara was a douche. Battlefield 3, along with the new Frostbite engine, has probably been in development alongside DICE's other projects, so would they really need any perpetual crunch time?

Blizzard, VALVe, Rockstar, hell even PopCap all employ the "it's done when it's done" mentality to their games, which leads me to believe that they don't have much crunch time. They respect their employees and they have direction. Again, I'm not saying do away with crunch time all together, shit hits the fan every now and again. But if the shit continues to hit the fan, more crunch isn't going to solve it.

Those games sell big numbers (they need to, at least), and that appeals to those involved on the business side. Plus there's something appealing about creating something so monumentally big, even if it's as bad as the recent Transformers movie.

Sure, it must feel great to be a part of a huge project. That does not excuse treating your employees like garbage. I bet even Micheal Bay treated his crew with more respect than these developers, the game industry right now is remarkably similar to the film industry circa 1960s/70s with mistreated crew.

If we follow suit with the Insomniac approach -- simpler, stylized graphics, more focus on the game's design, etc. -- then maybe we're all in a better place. But I don't know that gamers will ever stop wanting those big-budget titles, nor do I think developers will ever want to stop making them.

Insomniac's Resistance series is anything but simple or stylize (to an extent, it is), but that's not the point. You can easily make big-budget games (Resistance could be considered a big-budget game, but let's assume it isn't) without resorting to these kinds of deplorable conditions. I would be very interested to see the working conditions of many big developers (VALVe, Rockstar, Eidos (Deus Ex looks friggin' awesome), Insomniac, Naughty Dog, various EA developers, etc...).

Maybe I'm creating/relying on a lot of fallacies along the way, but that's how I get to a point where I see the options I mentioned earlier as the only viable routes to take this. We can make a game and then build on that foundation -- which kind of seems to be the Assassin's Creed approach. Maybe that is the best real-world situation. :\

The thing is, your options won't be necessary so long as the actual management and development of the game is done smoothly. Yeah, sure, shit hits the fan, but it's this mindset that overworking the employees and putting them in longer hours will somehow make the whole thing more productive in the long run when it doesn't.

 

[Eleima]

My sister, fresh out of business school, ended up finding a position at Gameloft in their Paris offices. She loves it, but they're working her to death. She comes in at 9am and doesn't leave until 11pm, midnight. This in the land of the 35 hour work week (which is basically a myth if you're not working in the public sector anyhow). I'm really concerned about her altered lifestyle (late nights, altered eating habits), but she's still loving it. Apparently, this is what Gameloft does, they take young people and use 'em up 'til they drop. That's why the average age of Gameloft employees is around 26-27. Most often than not, people will stay for a couple of years, until they just can't stand it anymore, burn out and leave for greener pastures.

 

[RvLeshrac]

I'm sure I would be fired quite quickly, but my response to unpaid overtime will always be a resounding "NO".

Same feeling here.
All that time, energy, studies/skills have to be fairly paid.
And i have doubts that "bonuses" and employees "advantages" are worth the same as the potential unpaid overtime. Plus it -seems- to be a trend in the game industry, not paying overtime as they should. Lots of rumors going around, but are they true or not?

Then you're fired. Good luck finding another job. I'm not being facetious. You will be terminated.

The worst part is the chorus of morons who say this treatment should be *accepted*. There are consequences for refusing to be subject to these conditions, but they shouldn't be accepted by anyone.

If people stop allowing themselves to be abused by employers, employers won't have a choice but to stop abusing their employees.

Except, this is kinda the problem with the industry. There are always more people wanting in, than there are positions. There was an article a couple months back, where a psychologist observed that the perception of being replaceable really facilitates this kind of managerial behavior. The unspoken threat seems to be: "You don't want to put up with our bullshit? Fine. Go fuck off. It's not like there aren't kids fresh out of college lining up to replace you."

That was my point. Too many morons growing up with the idea that the only way to earn any money is to bend over for everyone above them.

 

[somonels]

If the people nearby are starting to suspect that it is you who extrudes the unpleasant odors then it may be better to quickly move on.

 

[RvLeshrac]

I wonder if some of this has to do with the Aussie mentality towards work.

"She'll be airight!" "Just cos its not done don't mean I can't leave, do it inna mornin!" "Go down the pub on break, sure I'll be half an hour late back, but its fine!"

Many Australians ***** constantly about "foreigners" taking their jobs, but are unwilling to work as hard for the same pay. They also tend to have less serious, disciplined, approaches to their work.

That's not to say that these hours are not unreasonable.. they are and ALL games companies should be investing in larger staff and longer development cycles to ensure there is NO crunch for ANY game. But we should take into account that the Australian work culture might well affect their willingness to accept what is considered an industry standard.

There's an incredibly *MASSIVE* gulf between "unwilling to work as hard for the same pay" and "unwilling to be shafted like the immigrants are because they can be shipped off at a moment's notice."

Most of the jobs immigrants get are the most back-breaking labour at the lowest possible wages - they live a dozen to an apartment or house not because they *want* to be crowded into a tiny space, but because that's the only way they can afford to rent, pay bills, and have money left over to send to family on such a tiny amount of money.

If we paid the people who harvest food and clean up after us at the level they are actually worth to society, people would trip over each other trying to get those positions.

 

[snfonseka]

I had often wondered why a lot of modern games seemed like they were made by someone not quite paying attention... I've got my answer!

You are right, working conditions have direct impact on software quality. Even though some don't want to acknowledge that.

 

[sniddy_v1legacy]

She comes in at 9am and doesn't leave until 11pm, midnight. This in the land of the 35 hour work week (which is basically a myth if you're not working in the public sector anyhow

Of course, trust me that's a load of baloney - I've worked int he public sector, and trust me we do have crunch time, I've worked 12 hour day weeks, I've been up at 5 int he morning and home gone 10 at night...the whole 'oh the public sector is a cushy number' is a load of rubbish - If it's so damn fantastic, get a job in yourself....oh wait the pays pretty crappy and becuase you're always under the cosh and your complete upper management is always changing each government swap and your 'goals' can change day to day with the swinging mood of public opinion...and the golden pension, golden as in golden shower esk the way we're going

BUT

We have unions, if they try to bull too much BS we tell them, collectively, NO. If everyone stands together, and what you're asking for is reasonable (a fair days pay for a fair days work) then you shouldn't be work 100+ hours for 40 hours pay

mastiffchild - you seem like a smart person, I salute you

 

[Woodsey]

120 hours a week is about normal when it comes to crunch time. But you have to treat the staff with respect during this time.

If that's the case, then crunch time isn't normal.

Said it before, I'll say it again: Valve games take longer, they're critical darlings and commercial successes, and they don't treat their employees like cunts.

Your project lead/manager should not be so incompetent in scheduling that they have to introduce 120-hour-week crunch periods. Its no excuse.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Oh thats quite common in the gaming industry boys and girls, when the deadlines move close the hours get hella long.
But with good management that that can be ok, if someone put in extra time they should get extra time off, a nonstop 16 hour workday will only make the workforce exhausted and useless.

Alot of employers just think people signed on as slaves to do their bidding, they haven't and you need to treat them with respect, if you want them to do extra time then ask politely and offer a reward.
Motivated people will get you good results, depressed and overworked people will however not make quality they wouldn't even want to make quality, they will just be wasting time in the hope that day ends.

 

[Eleima]

She comes in at 9am and doesn't leave until 11pm, midnight. This in the land of the 35 hour work week (which is basically a myth if you're not working in the public sector anyhow

Of course, trust me that's a load of baloney - I've worked in the public sector, and trust me we do have crunch time, I've worked 12 hour day weeks, I've been up at 5 int he morning and home gone 10 at night...the whole 'oh the public sector is a cushy number' is a load of rubbish - If it's so damn fantastic, get a job in yourself....oh wait the pays pretty crappy and because you're always under the cosh and your complete upper management is always changing each government swap and your 'goals' can change day to day with the swinging mood of public opinion...and the golden pension, golden as in golden shower esk the way we're going
BUT
We have unions, if they try to bull too much BS we tell them, collectively, NO. If everyone stands together, and what you're asking for is reasonable (a fair days pay for a fair days work) then you shouldn't be work 100+ hours for 40 hours pay

I *do* have a job, thank you very much, and I *do* work in the French public sector. And I have a 35 hour work week. So don't make assumptions. I'm not saying all sections of the French public sector are equal (I've quite a few friends and colleagues in the French public health system, and they're closer to a 70 hour work week than a 35 hour work week), but there are places where the 35 hour work week exists. But you're right about the pay not being up to standard, I'll give you that. I get where you're coming from, but don't try to tell me what I'm saying is baloney, when I'm actually dans le bain, so to speak.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

tl;dr

it's highly possible, but after a while it does suck huge cock and becomes very apparent that it is not worth it.

I'm guessing you're pretty young still and took the occasional nap...

But 100 hours a week programming? When you're 20s-30s? I stick with my "mental exhaustion" point.

 

[5t3v0]

Im sorry... but the Kiwi Expat in me is coming out again (he comes out rarely... I've succumb to the Australian Way of life in the last 4 years)... But this is all wrong.

This is about New Zealand. Not Australia.

Im sorry, Its slightly unrelated, and probably little to do with any arguments... but I had to say it.

 

[Starke]

That was my point. Too many morons growing up with the idea that the only way to earn any money is to bend over for everyone above them.

I'm not sure I'd phrase it exactly that way. It's the idea that this is their dream, and by the time they get to the place where they learn their dream was a pile of shit to begin with, they've nowhere else to go.

 

[MasAcERd]

Gameloft mistreating there staff? what a suprise ! Next thing you know they will start shamlessly copying every other game that made money!


oh wait a minute...

 

[SouthpawFencer]

These "Crunch Time" horror stories (the article didn't say that this WAS a crunch time situation, but if that was considered a NORMAL schedule, it's even worse) concern me as a gamer because they're going to affect the quality of games in at least two ways:

First, with the high turnover rate, especially due to burnout, game development will be less efficient than it could be. You because a good programmer with experience. You gain experience by screwing stuff up the first time and learning from your screw-ups. You write a hundred lines of code and then learn two hours later about a built-in function in your programming language that could have done the task with a single line, and you REMEMBER that damn command. And you tell the intern that you see sitting down to crank out a hundred lines of unnecessary code.

With experienced programmers quitting (and, trust me kids, once you hit thirty, those all-night workshifts that seem so easy for you won't seem so easy anymore; I effectively lost my ability to work overnight almost precisely on my thirtieth birthday), game companies might be reinventing the wheel each development cycle, repeating mistakes and poor practices that more experienced members of a dev team might know to avoid.

In addition, older programmers might look at their own creation and consider innovations based in quirks in the code that only the original programmers would know about (fresh faces can also bring fresh ideas, admittedly, but nobody knows the ins and outs of computer code like the guys who first wrote it).

Secondly, games aren't likely to mature with perpetually young dev teams. Stuff that I found to be AWESOME in my twenties can often seem very immature and silly now. Female characters smuggling watermelons in their bras, jiggle physics, and the like gets old in a hurry. So does horrible dismemberments being done simply for their shock value. Older dev teams will have more experiences to bring to the table, and could possible add more depth to characters and stories.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

tl;dr

it's highly possible, but after a while it does suck huge cock and becomes very apparent that it is not worth it.

I'm guessing you're pretty young still and took the occasional nap...

But 100 hours a week programming? When you're 20s-30s? I stick with my "mental exhaustion" point.

haha uh naps?

the last time i took a "nap" was when i was a very small child, i hate naps, in general i hate sleeping as i think it's a complete waste of time.

That's fine, I'm just saying it's highly possible when you are correctly motivated, at my current job there is a Quality Control manager I know there, she is fucking 68 years old and she works 9 hours a day, 7 days a week (they can't find anyone to learn all the shit she knows and not make mistakes, so she's one of the very few they got), now while that isn't as much hour wise, she is old as fuck so my "point" still stands, just got to be properly motivated.

 

[rembrandtqeinstein]

The whole "crunch time" concept it total bullshit. It is caused by poor project management. And the managers would rather suck the life out of young developers than admit their mistakes and let the project slip.

That said I don't feel any sympathy for the fresh outs who refuse to stand up for themselves and say "No, I refuse".

There are no victims, only volunteers.

 

[Worgen]

I hope this complaint is legit, because otherwise this guy is being a complete self-serving ass that just screwed over the people he was working with. I have to wonder how the job hunting is going for him, as well.

its shit like this that made me decide going into the game industry was stupid

Don't expect any other industry to be nicer. Places are finding it cheaper to just work shorter staffs longer hours. Like mine. Which right now I don't mind so much. But that could change with time.

and that is why we need more strong unions

 

[geizr]

When I hear stuff like this in the gaming industry, it makes me wonder if the management of game companies fell off a turnip cart in 1782 into a freak time-vortex that ported them to modern times, so they entirely missed all the history and lessons learned regarding work conditions, pay scales, and effective productivity management over the years. Many of the issues the gaming industry has were solved almost 100 years ago in other areas. Even in the more recent software industry, many of the issues were solved at least 30 years ago. What makes the gaming industry so immune to learning from history, other than willful ignorance and obstenance?

What really kills me is the attitude that this is acceptable. No! No, it is not! It is absolutely inhuman and completely unacceptable, and this is what was realized almost 100 years ago. This is the reason we have the laws we do regarding work conditions, work hours, and worker compensation. It has been proven that the cycle of extreme over-work does nothing but kill productivity, increase costs, and reduce quality. It is a losing prospect.

But, for whatever reason, the game industry seems to feel that none of this applies(even though it truly does). End the end, the ultimate result is a continuing degradation of game innovation and quality.

ADDENDUM: the excuse that this is a young industry is no longer valid. This industry has been around for some 30-40 years. It has had more than enough time to work out these issues and get them under control, especially in light of all the existing historical examples from other industries. Many of these issues should not be issues and are just inexcusable failures of the game industry to manage itself.