#GamerGate Needs Damage Control Badly (Small OP Update)

lacktheknack

Je suis joined jewels.
Jan 19, 2009
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<spoiler=Redacted>
DC_78 said:
lacktheknack said:
shrekfan246 said:
There were also a lovely bunch of PMs sent out to people who, presumably, weren't explicitly on the "side" of GamerGate calling us all "subhumans" this morning.
WHAT?

Fuck this movement.

Fuck everything Gamergate protestors want.

Fuck their precious accountability and unbiased reporting, they ought to have nothing but what they've sown dropped back down on them like a cavalcade of anvils.

If they can't control their psychos, then they DESERVE them. And they deserve nothing more than my utter hate and belligerence.

I am sorry that some idiot decided to do this insulting PM.

That said I am still confused how anyone can control the trolls on the internet? I have seen this said from alot of folks, hell there are dueling petitions out there to stop the harassment, and honestly how do the nice people wrangle the assholes in? We have no power to ban them or stop them from using #gamergate and I doubt some psychotic person is going to be scolded or reasoned with into stopping.

I see no difference in this and any group trying to control their extremists. It can be human nature to simply paint these folks as a model of the group as a whole but that is wrong.
When WBC speaks, Christians shudder and beg for people to ignore them.

When Varg Vikerwhatshisface says and does heinous things, the death metal fandom condems him.

When Sarkeesian flees her home due to death threats, Gamergate calls her a liar.

See a problem?
 

Colour Scientist

Troll the Respawn, Jeremy!
Jul 15, 2009
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Queen Michael said:
shrekfan246 said:
There were also a lovely bunch of PMs sent out to people who, presumably, weren't explicitly on the "side" of GamerGate calling us all "subhumans" this morning.
I didn't get one, even though I am a subhuman. I eat subs, and I'm human. QED.
Aw, man, sucks that you're not part of the subhuman club.

It was a lovely PM to brighten up my morning.

Nothing says 'today is going to be a good day' like waking up to a message about how you're pathetic and shouldn't have any rights. XD
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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Colour Scientist said:
Nothing says 'today is going to be a good day' like waking up to a message about how you're pathetic and shouldn't have any rights. XD
oh as it gendered? cause mine wasn't that interesting
 

IceForce

Is this memes?
Legacy
Dec 11, 2012
2,384
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shrekfan246 said:
There were also a lovely bunch of PMs sent out to people who, presumably, weren't explicitly on the "side" of GamerGate calling us all "subhumans" this morning.
I got one of those too. And I'm not even a "zoe defender".
 

Colour Scientist

Troll the Respawn, Jeremy!
Jul 15, 2009
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Vault101 said:
Colour Scientist said:
Nothing says 'today is going to be a good day' like waking up to a message about how you're pathetic and shouldn't have any rights. XD
oh as it gendered? cause mine wasn't that interesting
No, it didn't really say why I didn't deserve any rights. Just 'people like you.' XD
 

DC_78

New member
Dec 9, 2013
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Semiautodidactic said:
DC_78 said:
That said I am still confused how anyone can control the trolls on the internet? I have seen this said from alot of folks, hell there are dueling petitions out there to stop the harassment, and honestly how do the nice people wrangle the assholes in? We have no power to ban them or stop them from using #gamergate and I doubt some psychotic person is going to be scolded or reasoned with into stopping.

I see no difference in this and any group trying to control their extremists. It can be human nature to simply paint these folks as a model of the group as a whole but that is wrong.

You say that, and yet you and your movement shriek loudly about the angry words a tiny handful of people on the other side use, constantly saying that all 'sjws' think gamers are scum because someone called you a manbaby, or saying that all feminists must want men castrated because some angry frustrated woman wrote a psychopathic revenge fantasy one time.

You are fully willing to take a few angry extreme words and use them to galvanize your support and demonize anyone who criticizes you, but you reject any call to fight the harassment coming from within your own ranks.

It's grossly hypocritical.

How is it hypocritical? These folks that got called out are not anonymous trolls are they? No they are gaming media and indie devs with skin in the game. Financial and personal interests to protect. Names in the gaming public that give their views weight and words power. Professional responsibilities to be better than the trolls not sink to their level. What does @ XXXXjimmy/v/xxxxx have? 140 characters of hate and nothing else. The media have a soapbox to cast the labels over a wide audience and they have.

And again you provide no way for a grass roots movement to curtail these threats or harassment. There is no leader to gamergate. No one voice that can even call for calm anymore, and some big voices have tried. You could no more censor some racist on CoD or WoW. All you can do is ignore her or mute them or try and kick him, but they are still there spewing hate.

And as to the Westboro comparison I actually think it is apt. They are still there protesting funerals and spreading hatred in the name of christianity, but they are denounced by most christians. Just like 99% of gamergate folks do if asked about harassment or threats or doxxing.

So again how about not lumping all of us that believe we are doing something that matters in with the sociopaths that want to fling shit at everyone? That is wrong when folks tried to do it with murderers that played games and is just as wrong now.
 

Cabisco

New member
May 7, 2009
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I didn't get a PM ffs. Boo!

But yes it's exceptionally easy to devalue gamergate because of the actions of the few loudest nutjobs, of course this is also happening the other way round I expect. The internet will always go by the lowest bar set.
 

m19

New member
Jun 13, 2012
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If someone done something to you how about take it with them personally. GamerGate is just internet talking. It's not a hive mind, not an organization, there is no common policy, or code, or hierarchy.

Why should anyone abandon anything when there are "shitty people" around? That's a convenient excuse to dismiss anything. That's like calling a protest violence because some douche broke a window.
 

Lieju

New member
Jan 4, 2009
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I have been of the opinion that gaming journalism has issues for a long time.

But fuck if I'm getting involved in any of this Gamergate shit.

To be honest I have very little respect for the majority of journalists on any media... I know too many.
I don't think most of them are being corrupt because they're being paid off etc. The unfortunate state of the industry is that it's very tightly knit, especially in the indie-scene, and people know each other.

There's no great conspiracy.

I'd like to see things change, but I have no idea how to go on about it, apart from supporting Youtube-channels and stuff who I think do good work.
 

rcs619

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Mar 26, 2011
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shrekfan246 said:
I still find it hilarious that I was accused of "white knighting" because I asked somebody to prove their claim that Zoe Quinn got positive press from Nathan Grayson.

There were also a lovely bunch of PMs sent out to people who, presumably, weren't explicitly on the "side" of GamerGate calling us all "subhumans" this morning.

And I mean, I even said days ago in that massive Quinnthread that people looking in on this whole event from the outside, they're only going to see the anger and rage and harassment and name-calling and character assassination (we're talking borderline libelous comments here), and they're going to think everyone "opposing" the journalists are just crazy. Ignoring the legitimate harm people are causing under the banner of your movement does nothing to help your cause, and remaining complacent because "they don't represent us" isn't going to change the perception that the public gets. Especially once you start celebrating the fact that you've pushed people to quitting their jobs.

At best, it sends a mixed message of what "GamerGate" is really about. At worst, it simply confirms in the eyes of the public what all of those negative editorials everybody is so angry at were saying about "gamers" in the first place. It seems to be human nature to focus on or at least notice far more negative than positive, and unfortunately this entire event has netted just as much negative press for the gaming community as it has certain indie developers or games journalists.
The fact is, when you get down to it, this whole 'controversy' was never really about games journalism.

There is a section of the 'gamer' community (small, in all likelihood, but very loud and extremely motivated) who just hate certain people, certain groups, certain sets of beliefs, and they look for any excuse to lash out at those. Whether they just want to troll the ever-loving hell out of people they don't like, or actually believe in some misguided way that their hobby (which, let's be honest, is really just about playing with very high-tech toys) is under some kind of siege from... something, they're just waiting for any excuse to go on a crusade against whatever it is that pisses them off. You saw the same sort of stuff back during the console wars, especially back in the PS3-360-Wii early days. You saw the same thing when Anita Sarkeesian first committed the unforgivable crime of deciding to make a series of videos about a topic she was interested in, and a topic that is going to have to be addressed at some point for this medium to make its way into the modern age. Hell, you saw it back when Zoe Quinn first came onto the scene with her game.

This is just more of the same wrapped in a different self-justifying wrapper based on (if we're being honest) the face-value word and screencaps of a jilted lover. Has anyone else here been in a relationship that's fallen apart spectacularly? Hell, even just a friendship that falls apart suddenly? People say and do some pretty terrible things just to try and hurt the person they're upset at. Neither should Zoe Quinn be taken at face value either. Whatever actual movement was originally behind this in the beginning (if any) it's been entirely co-opted by angry 4channers, trolls, white knights, "gamers" and "SJW's" (none of which actually represent that majority or the mainstream of the group they claim to be a part of) too wrapped up in petty bullshit to see how ridiculous and dumb this whole thing has become.

This kind of crap is why I don't really pay attention to games media (beyond the handful of people I like) anymore. Too much drama and internet-bullshit to wade through, instead of people playing and/or enjoying games.
 

1Life0Continues

Not a Gamer, I Just Play Games
Jul 8, 2013
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I'm almost offended by the lack of PM too. What, did I not "social justice" hard enough?

Oh, I didn't voice an "opinion" on [stupid fucking hashtag of the week here].

*shrug* Obnoxious isn't worth acknowledging. And the content of these PM's just goes to show why people aren't giving this 'movement' any credence at all. It's poisoned water.

I'm inclined to believe the many others that have said 'this discussion cannot be had on the Internet.' It's abundantly clear many people don't know the meaning of the half the words they are shouting out, many others don't understand the actual problem because any meaning has been leeched out like a game of 'telephone' until it's unrecognisable, and others are just pyromaniacs at a bonfire, with no agenda at all except to keep the fires burning.
 

wizzy555

New member
Oct 14, 2010
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I think you are mostly right.

At this point no scandal could actually justify the crap that is going on and they are shooting themselves in the foot. However there are one or two real issues this has shed light on, some that are being addressed and a few suspicions I personally would like investigated further by someone vaguely neutral and experienced at this sort of things. It could all have been done with a few angry letters to editors and maybe a moderately sized politely run hash-tag on twitter.

The "other" side has been abysmal as well, it could have been nipped in the bud with a few mea-culpas and a few promises for further investigation. Too many jumped into the siege mentality and have been acting what any industry should consider completely unprofessional.

To answer your question, feminism is a factor because last year there was an open letter to editors from a feminist academic urging them to wipe out prejudices in their readership even if it meant resorting to antagonistic means. To be honest I consider this fallout a demonstration of how those tactics are flawed.
 

DC_78

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Dec 9, 2013
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Semiautodidactic said:
DC_78 said:
I have never claimed that standard does not apply to me, personally. But I believe that you are trying to say it applies to the movement as if it is a hivemind. Which it is not. There is no Grand King of gamergate or central site that even coordinates strategy. Although here and 4chan seem to be the most likely sources for discussion of strategy and tactics. The Escapist is no more responsible for the worst bile filled forum post or thread than gamergate is to a random horrible tweet.

That said I can understand the thought process of abandoning gamergate. In fact it has been discussed in the big thread before. Ultimately it was seen to be of more harm than good to the movement to split it. In effect the understanding is if you abandon the gamergate name, even to clean up its image by founding another cause it would simply be relabeled the same by the media. Also it would be infected by the same trolls that started the mud slinging and harassment anyway as there are no serious controls in place to stop them nor could there be realistically. There is no magic kill switch on someone's twitter to keep them from using certain #'s. You would simply confuse people, drive some groups away (that maybe need to be driven away but it is opinion), seem less serious losing momentum, and only get painted with the same brush anyway because that is the media's only real tactic at this point to silence the discussion. That and mass censorship.

Honestly I am sorry that even our good members will be seen as women hating trolls. That has been a burden some have carried well, some have not cared much about it, and one which has been too heavy for others causing real depression. This is why I believe some have made numerous threads to try and get fence sitters and even reasonable folks on the other side to look at all the evidence and arguments we have put forward. To validate their own feelings with the wider community to make themselves feel better and to spread awareness. I know spreading awareness is why I respond to threads like this without rancor or anger.

For instance Gamegate has spawned #notyourshield and financed The Fine Young Capitalists efforts, both highlighting diversity in games and gamers more than a thousand click baiting articles on any gamer web site. We have opened up and shined a light on some of games media and the indie scene's bad practices. We have made some good things happen in the industry on transparency that needed to be addressed for the benefit of everyone. I believe we may have even uncovered a case of legitimate racketeering in the Indie awards scene.

My last thought is some people have been hurt, some people have been harassed, some have been forced by their own words to become disillusioned with gamers enough to quit the industry. That is sad, but I think gamers have stood for their rights for a better media and indie scene and unfortunately do to the actions of a few it hurt some people.
 

Michel Henzel

Just call me God
May 13, 2014
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I don't consider myself as being a part of the gamegate thing, or I should say not by choice, but I have been following it closely for the most part. But seriously, you think generalizing like that is going to help get your point across? Not even bothering addressing the loathsome things that the other side spews forth as well (people on both sides are equality guilty, and needs decrying for both sides). Not even addressing the many of have actively discouraged such behaviour or the massive outcry from gamegate supporters over the CP tweets with some going as far as reporting it to the authorities, something Anita should have done but decided tweeting about it was the best coarse of action. So why ignore all of that? Is it ok for men and women who support gamergate to receive death threats? Is it ok for people like me on the side lines to receive them for just asking questions? (and yes I have received them, plenty of them) Is that all fine?

If you want to help then do something. Point them out, tell them off, report them etc.
 

rcs619

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Mar 26, 2011
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Sleekit said:
I never said nothing is wrong with the games industry (Jim Sterling, among others, has been shouting about it for years now), but trying to graft that sort of stuff onto this current bout of insanity is just... well, at best it's self-defeating, at worst it's just dumb. I'd worry less about who a relatively unimportant indie dev may have allegedly slept with according to her ex, and more about the mainstream reporters who are completely and utterly beholden to the major games publishers for access. Or the way publishers actually do pay for positive press and actively conspire to cheat their customers in the most efficient way. Or the million other shady dealings that go on between publishers and the more mainstream press they allow to report on them.

Those are actual problems with the game industry and games journalism.

Gamersgate is about a bunch of people either trying to troll the hell out of, or defend the hell out of, people that a not-insubstantial portion of the online gaming community decided that they didn't like a long time ago. And then a half dozen other grudges got thrown in because drama begets drama.
 

TakerFoxx

Elite Member
Jan 27, 2011
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shrekfan246 said:
There were also a lovely bunch of PMs sent out to people who, presumably, weren't explicitly on the "side" of GamerGate calling us all "subhumans" this morning.
Wow. I don't have a horse in the whole GamerGate thing, but that's pretty messed up no matter what side you're on. Did the person who sent them at least get banned?