#GamerGate Needs Damage Control Badly (Small OP Update)

[carnex]

As I said to someone else, Christians disown WBC. Black metal fans disown Varg Vikernes. Etc.

Gamergate proponents, however, watched Zoe Quinn have a breakdown from the abuse she's receiving, watched Anita Sarkeesian flee her own home due to death threats, and then said that they were lying about/exaggerating their abusers.

And Anita had nothing to do with this in the first place.

Disown abusers? Why should we do that when we can use the abuse to attack our opponents instead?

That is what I mean by "controlling your psychos".

And that is why Gamergate can go drink mercury and die.

Westboro Baptist Church and Varg Vikernes are identifiable person/group. Abusers on internet are anonymous, unknown, unidentifiable part of the mass. It's likely that one or more of abusers is posting here in reasonable manner while sending pure hate in all directions in private. People have already done what they can do about it, that is to distance themselves.

Yes, Zoe snapped, one of who knows how many that snapped during this. And I'm sorry that she is going through it. But I'm considerably more sorry for people who have mental issues and are caught up in this without contributing to it thus having really, REALLY bad days. That said, not that I think this person has any mental issues

-snip-

I'm especially sorry to hear that you got all that. You are one of more balanced people in this mess. Keep it up and stay strong!

Fuck them too.

Fuck them with rusty pitchforks.

Fuck them with chainsaws lined with butchers knives.

Let their hearts be rent asunder with the demonic claws of Satan himself as they're dragged shrieking from this mortal coil into the depths of their worst hells.

That goes for anyone and everyone who sends threats to anyone over an opinion piece.

ps thank you for the death wish.

Are you one of the people who called Sarkeesian a liar when she fled her home and/or sent her rape and death threats? If so, you're welcome. If not, you really need to work on figuring out when things are addressed at you.[/quote]

Well, I don't think you need a mirror to see how much hypocritical you are acting.

 

[lacktheknack]

<spoiler=Redacted>

Disown abusers? Why should we do that when we can use the abuse to attack our opponents instead?

That is what I mean by "controlling your psychos".

And that is why Gamergate can go drink mercury and die.

http://www.change.org/p/the-gaming-industry-please-stop-the-hate

Feel-good platitudes with no real goal and no real method.

I don't care about the hate coming from the games industry. I don't care about gamers hatefully raging at the games industry. I care about people sending death threats and rape threats to people, and then others standing by and all but cheering for them.

I want the first group jailed, and the second group punched in the face. Where's my petition for that?

 

[lacktheknack]

<spoiler=Redacted>

As I said to someone else, Christians disown WBC. Black metal fans disown Varg Vikernes. Etc.

Gamergate proponents, however, watched Zoe Quinn have a breakdown from the abuse she's receiving, watched Anita Sarkeesian flee her own home due to death threats, and then said that they were lying about/exaggerating their abusers.

And Anita had nothing to do with this in the first place.

Disown abusers? Why should we do that when we can use the abuse to attack our opponents instead?

That is what I mean by "controlling your psychos".

And that is why Gamergate can go drink mercury and die.

Westboro Baptist Church and Varg Vikernes are identifiable person/group. Abusers on internet are anonymous, unknown, unidentifiable part of the mass. It's likely that one or more of abusers is posting here in reasonable manner while sending pure hate in all directions in private. People have already done what they can do about it, that is to distance themselves.

Yes, Zoe snapped, one of who knows how many that snapped during this. And I'm sorry that she is going through it. But I'm considerably more sorry for people who have mental issues and are caught up in this without contributing to it thus having really, REALLY bad days. That said, not that I think this person has any mental issues

You're actually very right that abusers aren't easily identifiable, I'll give you that. However, based off my glimpses into the mouth of madness Quinnthread, I'm not sure I'd say that I saw anyone distancing themselves. I tended to see paranoid image-posting about how it's totally impossible for this screenshot Sarkeesian used to be real. That's totally how distancing yourself from abusers works, right?

 

[lacktheknack]

<spoiler=Redacted>

Fuck them too.

Fuck them with rusty pitchforks.

Fuck them with chainsaws lined with butchers knives.

Let their hearts be rent asunder with the demonic claws of Satan himself as they're dragged shrieking from this mortal coil into the depths of their worst hells.

That goes for anyone and everyone who sends threats to anyone over an opinion piece.

ps thank you for the death wish.

Are you one of the people who called Sarkeesian a liar when she fled her home and/or sent her rape and death threats? If so, you're welcome. If not, you really need to work on figuring out when things are addressed at you.

Well, I don't think you need a mirror to see how much hypocritical you are acting.[/quote]

Oh, not at all.

That said, while I wish nothing but ill on these people, I'd never administer it myself. Nor did I ever say I would. I can't say that for them.

 

[Michel Henzel]

I don't care about the hate coming from the games industry. I don't care about gamers hatefully raging at the games industry. I care about people sending death threats and rape threats to people, and then others standing by and all but cheering for them.

You are totally right, people should just do as you do and not use death treats and just wish for other people to die, that is so much better.

 

[wizzy555]

Disown abusers? Why should we do that when we can use the abuse to attack our opponents instead?

That is what I mean by "controlling your psychos".

And that is why Gamergate can go drink mercury and die.

http://www.change.org/p/the-gaming-industry-please-stop-the-hate

Feel-good platitudes with no real goal and no real method.

I don't care about the hate coming from the games industry. I don't care about gamers hatefully raging at the games industry. I care about people sending death threats and rape threats to people, and then others standing by and all but cheering for them.

I want the first group jailed, and the second group punched in the face. Where's my petition for that?

I'm sorry but you said disowning, disowning is pretty much on the level of platitudes.

 

[lacktheknack]

<spoiler=Redacted>

Feel-good platitudes with no real goal and no real method.

again i ask you what you do to suggest people should do other than condemning others and appealing for moderation within the debate which is what the vast majority of people involved with "gamergate" have been doing.

go on,

tell us how to stop the random assholes of the internet.

over and above that...which we are already doing.

i genuinely await your reply with fascination.

Are you actively distancing yourself from abusers and encouraging others to do so as well?

Cool! You're a cool person. You're doing all that's required. I wish I saw more people doing that.

Obviously, this is based off what I've observed. Who knows, maybe I've seen nothing but shit because I keep looking in at the wrong times. I've not seen a "vast majority" do anything levelheaded in this whole affair. Ah well, you can't fix terrible luck.

I don't care about the hate coming from the games industry. I don't care about gamers hatefully raging at the games industry. I care about people sending death threats and rape threats to people, and then others standing by and all but cheering for them.

You are totally right, people should just do as you do and not use death treats and just wish for other people to die, that is so much better.

Admit it: It's a step up. A small one, but a step up nonetheless.

Disown abusers? Why should we do that when we can use the abuse to attack our opponents instead?

That is what I mean by "controlling your psychos".

And that is why Gamergate can go drink mercury and die.

http://www.change.org/p/the-gaming-industry-please-stop-the-hate

Feel-good platitudes with no real goal and no real method.

I don't care about the hate coming from the games industry. I don't care about gamers hatefully raging at the games industry. I care about people sending death threats and rape threats to people, and then others standing by and all but cheering for them.

I want the first group jailed, and the second group punched in the face. Where's my petition for that?

I'm sorry but you said disowning, disowning is pretty much on the level of platitudes.

"pls stahp" is on the same level as "fuck off"? Huh.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

I have never claimed that standard does not apply to me, personally. But I believe that you are trying to say it applies to the movement as if it is a hivemind. Which it is not. There is no Grand King of gamergate or central site that even coordinates strategy. Although here and 4chan seem to be the most likely sources for discussion of strategy and tactics. The Escapist is no more responsible for the worst bile filled forum post or thread than gamergate is to a random horrible tweet.

You are congregating and discussing 'strategy' and 'tactics'. There is collusion and discussion of how best to conduct this movement. You are coming to a consensus about how to best conduct yourselves, and you give each other marching orders and have plans for some nebulous endgame. As such, you are all very much responsible for the things that your movement says and does. You cannot sit and discuss 'tactics' openly and then turn around and say 'well, we're not responsible' when your movement is used for its full nefarious purposes. The fact that you're discussing 'tactics' at all indicates that your moves are planned in advance.

Also, as an unrelated tangent, I should point out that you 'gamergate' people are acting and thinking about this like you are a side in a war, while on the other side all you have is a bunch of people who think games should be more inclusive. There are no IRC chatrooms where Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian meet to discuss 'tactics'.

Why are there such discussions at all? What the hell does your movement gain about discussing 'tactics'? Don't you realize how creepy that looks to everyone on the outside?

As someone who has been contributing in the giant thread for a while now, I have to say what we have been doing most is sharing information. Pointing each other to new articles, videos, Twitter posts and information images. The main point of that thread is not a war-room to direct operations, but simply a chamber to make sure everyone is hearing all the news.

The only real 'tactics' that have ever been discussed were when we arranged to email website sponsors about the content of the websites they were advertising on. As far as I can remember that and the decision to use Twitter hashtags to counter the #deathtogamers twitter hashtag that the devs and journalists against us had already set up.

Our main actions other than that have been to keep telling each other to keep calm and not send harassing messages or use personal insults. Unfortunately because of the scale of this controversy it takes a lot of messages to get the point across (and unfortunately it doesn't always work as there are assholes who just want to insult and denigrate people, and because the movement is effectively anonymous we have no way of controlling the peace.) No one in the main thread knew about the PMs sent out today, no one could have done anything to stop them, and I am very sorry they were sent out, but that is the problem with having a debate in this jump in/drop out state across several websites. What gets said by people is for the large part uncontrollable, and due to it's scale there will be actual misogynists, actual trolls, actual people who just want to insult, hack or threaten, and we don't really have the power to combat that apart from telling them not to do it, and condoning it and apologizing when it happens, which is what we are trying to do as much as possible.

Our 'moves' aren't planned in advance. We simply wait to see the next piece of information that is revealed, and discuss its wider implications. There is no overall gameplan, no one has any idea how this will end, how long it will take, or who will be implicated next. We are simply investigating the relationships and conflicts of interest that exist between indie developers and games journalists, noting and discussing what we find, and campaigning videogame websites for stricter rules regarding their journalists.

You say that Zoe Quinn / Anita Sarkeesian have no meetings to discuss tactics. First of all, Anita doesn't have anything to do with this protest at all. Her hands are perfectly clean. Secondly, there have been organised, concerted efforts launched against us. On the 28th August 11 websites all posted articles on a single day EDIT: [10 articels were posted in 24 hours] calling for the death of gamers. It was Zoe Quinn and Silverstring Media that organised the cutieskillingvideogames hashtag, T-shirts, [http://teespring.com/cuties] wristbands [] and badges. (organised to come out at the same time as the death to gamers articles), Zoe Quinn sleuthed 4chan chatlogs and created images to prove /v/ were evil, another guy posted a table on Twitter depicting 10 key words he had searched through the chat logs for, to show that 4chan cursed. If it is use of 'tactics' that concerns you, let me assure you, they have been in no way limited to us. The indie devs and journalists are making a concerted effort to silence us, using every tool at their disposal.

Finally, the abuse that we have received has not been from anonymous sources or from difficult to control members of the other side, but by the personal twitter accounts and articles of the professional journalists and professional developers. We are fully against any hate messages sent in the name of gamergate, and I am ashamed of the people that have harassed in our name, but the people that have been harassing on the other side are the big professional names, and they have repeatedly and unashamedly called us all sorts of unprofessional and horrible things, with no apologies or repentance: http://gamergateharrassment.tumblr.com/

I am truly sorry to everyone who saw abuse in this thread, and if it was someone who frequently posts in the big thread I would encourage you to name and shame, because no matter who they are they will be ostracised for doing such a hateful thing, but please don't tar us as extremists or haters.

We simply want more transparency in videogame journalism, we want more critical thinking and fact checking in articles, less biased stories and reviews and recommendations we can trust. It is very unfortunate that it has come to such a big clusterfuck, but escalation never comes from just one side, and as we have

 

[000Ronald]

That said I am still confused how anyone can control the trolls on the internet?

It's actually very simple. Would you like me to show you?

Fuck them too.

Fuck them with rusty pitchforks.

Fuck them with chainsaws lined with butchers knives.

Let their hearts be rent asunder with the demonic claws of Satan himself as they're dragged shrieking from this mortal coil into the depths of their worst hells.

That goes for anyone and everyone who sends threats to anyone over an opinion piece.

Knack? I'm asking you this as a friend. Presumably a friend.

CALM. DOWN.

I understand you're upset, and that you have very strong feelings about this, and I even understand what those feelings are; however, not only are there a nearly endless amount of better ways to tell them this, but I think I can count the worse ways to tell them this on one hand. Just telling people to go fuck themselves acomplishes very little unless you tell them WHY they can go fuck themselves in the same breath. And while it's frustrating to have to tell someone again and again and again and again and AGAIN WHY they can go fuck themselves, as opposed to just telling them to go fuck themselves, that's what you have to do. If they get you to the point where you've degenerated into unintelligable nonsense-babble, then at best you've lost a great deal of ground, and at worst you have lost period.

I've dealt with rabble-rousers before. You know that, and I know you know that. So understand that I say this from experience; you have to meet them in such a way that they cannot just sweep aside whatever it is you have to say. You have to flood them with evidence, so much evidence that it cannot be ignored. And more than anything else, you have to be respectful to them. Yes, even when they're doing everything they can to bring you down. Even when they don't deserve it. Especially when they don't deserve it. You must be respectful, because a debate isn't just one person talking to another person, it's also both of those people performing for the people passively observing. And the more you can prove that you do have a point, and you are able to make your point without resorting to childish nonsense, and the better you can prove that you have something important to say, the better the odds are that people are going to pay attention to what you are saying.

Again, please, bear in mind; I'm not attacking you, and I'm not even disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that I know you're better than this. The abyss gazes, also, and he who would fight monsters needs make sure he does not become one himself.

 

[lacktheknack]

That said I am still confused how anyone can control the trolls on the internet?

It's actually very simple. Would you like me to show you?

Fuck them too.

Fuck them with rusty pitchforks.

Fuck them with chainsaws lined with butchers knives.

Let their hearts be rent asunder with the demonic claws of Satan himself as they're dragged shrieking from this mortal coil into the depths of their worst hells.

That goes for anyone and everyone who sends threats to anyone over an opinion piece.

Knack? I'm asking you this as a friend. Presumably a friend.

CALM. DOWN.

I understand you're upset, and that you have very strong feelings about this, and I even understand what those feelings are; however, not only are there a nearly endless amount of better ways to tell them this, but I think I can count the worse ways to tell them this on one hand. Just telling people to go fuck themselves acomplishes very little unless you tell them WHY they can go fuck themselves in the same breath. And while it's frustrating to have to tell someone again and again and again and again and AGAIN WHY they can go fuck themselves, as opposed to just telling them to go fuck themselves, that's what you have to do. If they get you to the point where you've degenerated into unintelligable nonsense-babble, then at best you've lost a great deal of ground, and at worst you have lost period.

I've dealt with rabble-rousers before. You know that, and I know you know that. So understand that I say this from experience; you have to meet them in such a way that they cannot just sweep aside whatever it is you have to say. You have to flood them with evidence, so much evidence that it cannot be ignored. And more than anything else, you have to be respectful to them. Yes, even when they're doing everything they can to bring you down. Even when they don't deserve it. Especially when they don't deserve it. You must be respectful, because a debate isn't just one person talking to another person, it's also both of those people performing for the people passively observing. And the more you can prove that you do have a point, and you are able to make your point without resorting to childish nonsense, and the better you can prove that you have something important to say, the better the odds are that people are going to pay attention to what you are saying.

Again, please, bear in mind; I'm not attacking you, and I'm not even disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that I know you're better than this. The abyss gazes, also, and he who would fight monsters needs make sure he does not become one himself.

...thank you.

I need a break.

 

[m19]

Can't do any damage control anyway when it's this same media who decide what the narrative is. They decide what to focus on and who to put in the spotlight. And they have decided to paint all of us as harassing misogynists even though you could not find 1 in a 1000 that does this at #gamergate.

What's the point when all they do is cherry pick the easiest targets to highlight and then laugh "lulz gamergate"?

 

[small]

what the hell is gamergate? The Zoey thread is too huge for me to jump in. The only part i read was the stickied part which was suppose to give an unbiased viewpoint of what was happening. All i got from that is that Zoe is a real life Katherine Steiner-Davion.

to sum it up.
all the big gaming websites are owned by a single company that contract out to a single PR firm for their public relations, that anita (i cant be bothered looking up her name) is involved in the PR firm and zoe quinn slept with a PR rep from that company to get positive press for her game, etc

once i did my own research into it (people tend to not check sources and just repeat what they are told) i discovered that the gaming sites are owned by different companies, the "pr firm" doesnt actually do PR they are actually a tiny feminist indy game developer who makes experimental games and as such its meaningless to the argument that zoe quinn slept with anyone. as for the anita angle. shes an adviser for the developer.

people seem to of read she slept with a PR rep and ran with it, assuming its a PR firm as far as i can tell

 

[Davroth]

Now, I haven't really picked a side on the whole Gamergate thing, but this, this reeks once again like double standard. So it's okay to dismiss the Gamergate movement outright for their extremists. Okay, fair enough. Movements need to do damage control, right? How else can anyone take them seriously.

Well, why then are feminists not held to the same standard? Have you guys read what some self-proclaimed feminists write on tumblr or say in Youtube videos? Noone calls for damage control their, or dismisses the cause of feminism. On the contrary, most people just wave that part of the movement away and ridicule people for even bringing it up.

So which one is it? You can't have it both ways.

 

[000Ronald]

Feel-good platitudes with no real goal and no real method.

again i ask you what you do to suggest people should do other than condemning others and appealing for moderation within the debate which is what the vast majority of people involved with "gamergate" have been doing.

go on,

tell us how to stop the random assholes of the internet.

Can't do any damage control anyway when it's this same media who decide what the narrative is. They decide what to focus on and who to put in the spotlight. And they have decided to paint all of us as harassing misogynists even though you could not find 1 in a 1000 that does this at #gamergate.

What's the point when all they do is cherry pick the easiest targets to highlight and then laugh "lulz gamergate"?

If I may chime in with my two cents-

Just because something seems insurmountable doesn't mean you don't try. Plenty of things in history have seemed impossible; plenty of people do things that seemed impossible at the time every day. Speaking from my limited experience, nothing that was worth doing was ever easy. Especially the first time.

...and speaking more pragmatically, and as someone who isn't largely invested in the discussion, seeing one side not only level vitriol and abuse at the other, but seeing the other people in that group just ignore that vitriol and abuse makes the entire group seem complacent in the harassment, even if they aren't. The closest comparison I can make is to The Tea Party, here in The U.S.. I'm not a moron; I don't believe that everyone associated with them is a racist or sexist or wants to take The U.S. back to the 1400s. But there are people like that in the group, and by and large, none of them seem to be willing to address that. Similarly, that you and yours seem unwilling to tell these people to stop because they're damaging any goodwill you may have gotten tells me that some of you are willing to tolerate that kind of behavior, even if it isn't necessarily true. And it becomes something of a feedback loop; the less you speak out, the more people like that come over to your side and behave in that fashion, and the more people who genuinely despise that kind of behavior jump ship.

I'm all for integrity in journalism. Not just in gaming journalism, but all journalsm. But you ought to be able to make that point and decry the sexists and the slut-shamers and the "MEN ARE THE ONES WHO REALLY HAVE IT HARD" types at the same time. Does it take more effort? Certainly. But if you're serious about what you're saying, really, genuinely serious, you ought to be able to do it.

And if you can't...maybe you ought to re-evaluate your position.

 

[Colour Scientist]

Now, I haven't really picked a side on the whole Gamergate thing, but this, this reeks once again like double standard. So it's okay to dismiss the Gamergate movement outright for their extremists. Okay, fair enough. Movements need to do damage control, right? How else can anyone take them seriously.

Well, why then are feminists not held to the same standard? Have you guys read what some self-proclaimed feminists write on tumblr or say in Youtube videos? Noone calls for damage control their, or dismisses the cause of feminism. On the contrary, most people just wave that part of the movement away and ridicule people for even bringing it up.

So which one is it? You can't have it both ways.

Are you joking?

That argument is brought up against feminism all of the fucking time.

People are constantly suggesting that feminism has been tarnished by so-called 'feminazis.' Just pick a thread on feminism on these very forums and I guarantee you that you will see feminists on this site having to basically apologise for other people with particularly extreme or disagreeable opinions.

Feminists are not allowed to forget about the controversial elements of the movement and are constantly having to explain it or defend themselves against it. It's brought up as a means to discredit feminist thought as a whole constantly. I've read feminist works from the 1980s defending themselves against the same shit that feminists are still having to defend themselves against today.

It's funny because I know that some of the people defending GamerGate, saying that you can't judge the many by the actions of the few, have engaged in similar criticisms against "SJWs" and feminists. I guess it's only okay when they do it.

 

[Davroth]

Now, I haven't really picked a side on the whole Gamergate thing, but this, this reeks once again like double standard. So it's okay to dismiss the Gamergate movement outright for their extremists. Okay, fair enough. Movements need to do damage control, right? How else can anyone take them seriously.

Well, why then are feminists not held to the same standard? Have you guys read what some self-proclaimed feminists write on tumblr or say in Youtube videos? Noone calls for damage control their, or dismisses the cause of feminism. On the contrary, most people just wave that part of the movement away and ridicule people for even bringing it up.

So which one is it? You can't have it both ways.

Are you joking?

That argument is brought up against feminism all of the fucking time.

People are constantly suggesting that feminism has been tarnished by so-called 'feminazis.' Just pick a thread on feminism on these very forums and I guarantee you that you will see feminists on this site having to basically apologise for other people with particularly extreme or disagreeable opinions.

Feminists are not allowed to forget about the controversial elements of the movement and are constantly having to explain it or defend themselves against it. It's brought up as a means to discredit feminist thought as a whole constantly. I've read feminist works from the 1980s defending themselves against the same shit that feminists are still having to defend themselves against today.

It's funny because I know that some of the people defending GamerGate, saying that you can't judge the many by the actions of the few, have engaged in similar criticisms against "SJWs" and feminists. I guess it's only okay when they do it.

Yeah, I can see how feminism is generally dismissed based on that, seeing how everyone and their mom jumps to their defence whenever someone jumps out of the woodwork and brings up the femenazis (as you called them). And I totally see all the blog articles on reputable outlets decrying the movement because it contains those individuals.

So why is it acceptable here to dismiss this movement based on their extremists, and not with feminism? I'm asking this as someone who is on the fence on both. But if I dismiss the one based on that, I can't logically support the other one.

 

[Jack Action]

Are you joking?

That argument is brought up against feminism all of the fucking time.

People are constantly suggesting that feminism has been tarnished by so-called 'feminazis.' Just pick a thread on feminism on these very forums and I guarantee you that you will see feminists on this site having to basically apologise for other people with particularly extreme or disagreeable opinions.

...To be fair, when you've got people calling themselves feminists and calling for all men to be castrated, killed, or otherwise being partially or entirely removed from the face of the earth (or laughing at a man who got his dick chopped off, since that was mentioned recently), you really can't blame others for expecting you to distance yourself from them.

Feminists are not allowed to forget about the controversial elements of the movement and are constantly having to explain it or defend themselves against it. It's brought up as a means to discredit feminist thought as a whole constantly. I've read feminist works from the 1980s defending themselves against the same shit that feminists are still having to defend themselves against today.

I was going to point out that maybe there is a problem when this has been going on for 30 years and the nutjobs are still around, but that's more of a problem with the label 'feminist', which beyond the basic 'wants women to have equal rights' doesn't really have a definition, and anyone can apply it to themselves regardless of what they do with it.

It's funny because I know that some of the people defending GamerGate, saying that you can't judge the many by the actions of the few, have engaged in similar criticisms against "SJWs" and feminists. I guess it's only okay when they do it.

You could (and should) level the exact same argument against the journalist side of this mess.

Now, if you'll excuse me, as cowardly as this may seem, I'll stick to only reading this thread, because it's getting dangerously close to a flamewar and I have a nasty habit of getting involved in those.

 

[b.w.irenicus]

Now, I haven't really picked a side on the whole Gamergate thing, but this, this reeks once again like double standard. So it's okay to dismiss the Gamergate movement outright for their extremists. Okay, fair enough. Movements need to do damage control, right? How else can anyone take them seriously.

Well, why then are feminists not held to the same standard? Have you guys read what some self-proclaimed feminists write on tumblr or say in Youtube videos? Noone calls for damage control their, or dismisses the cause of feminism. On the contrary, most people just wave that part of the movement away and ridicule people for even bringing it up.

So which one is it? You can't have it both ways.

Are you joking?

That argument is brought up against feminism all of the fucking time.

People are constantly suggesting that feminism has been tarnished by so-called 'feminazis.' Just pick a thread on feminism on these very forums and I guarantee you that you will see feminists on this site having to basically apologise for other people with particularly extreme or disagreeable opinions.

Feminists are not allowed to forget about the controversial elements of the movement and are constantly having to explain it or defend themselves against it. It's brought up as a means to discredit feminist thought as a whole constantly. I've read feminist works from the 1980s defending themselves against the same shit that feminists are still having to defend themselves against today.

It's funny because I know that some of the people defending GamerGate, saying that you can't judge the many by the actions of the few, have engaged in similar criticisms against "SJWs" and feminists. I guess it's only okay when they do it.

I think that's the point he was making. Feminists face this argument all the time and it is (rightfully) dismissed. So how come that suddenly that kind of argument is totaly valid when used against someone else?

 

[Uriel_Hayabusa]

I still find it hilarious that I was accused of "white knighting" because I asked somebody to prove their claim that Zoe Quinn got positive press from Nathan Grayson.

There were also a lovely bunch of PMs sent out to people who, presumably, weren't explicitly on the "side" of GamerGate calling us all "subhumans" this morning.

The side opposing #GamerGate also knows a thing or two about harassment though.

http://gamergateharrassment.tumblr.com/

 

[000Ronald]

I still find it hilarious that I was accused of "white knighting" because I asked somebody to prove their claim that Zoe Quinn got positive press from Nathan Grayson.

There were also a lovely bunch of PMs sent out to people who, presumably, weren't explicitly on the "side" of GamerGate calling us all "subhumans" this morning.

The side opposing #GamerGate also knows a thing or two about harassment though.

http://gamergateharrassment.tumblr.com/

I don't know that the harassment itself is the point. For me, at least looking in from the outside, the point is that one side has so much harassment and vitriol that people have thrown their hands up and decided that there's nothing they can do about it. And, as I said in a previous post, that leads to a cycle where eventually people like that become the norm rather than the exception. If you have a point to make, you should be able to make it without coming off as...biased, I think, is the most neutral term.

Don't get me wrong, people doing that on either side is unacceptable, at least as far as I'm concerned. But you don't stop it by doing nothing about it. In fact, doing nothing about it is the worst thing you can do.