Gamergate, No "Right Side." - We Should Avoid Picking Sides

[Akjosch]

To the OP: That's fine. Staying out of it is as valid choice as any. As a firm supporter of GamerGate, I prefer it when people inform themselves, think for themselves, and make their own informed decisions - even if those decisions lead to them not supporting or even opposing my views.

Now, how do I inform mods about everyone else going vastly off-topic and cluttering the board?

 

[Vibhor]

So in other words, she criticised them.

Misrepresentation and slander doesn't really qualify as criticism in any dictionary.

 

[cleric of the order]

]objectively we have proof that she intentionally shut down TFYC,

Actually no. No we don't.

We have this though. [http://imgur.com/a/KEtcp]

Yes, it's well-known by anyone who's done a little homework that ZQ gave this half-hearted "I didn't do anything" apology AFTER having dragged TFYC's name through the mud, garnered negative press for the group on basis of specious allegations, and as a result one of their major backers dropped out, nearly deep-sixing the project --- except that, of all people, 4chan took up a collection to save the fundraiser.

Which was itself a primary core of the "4chan is in cahoots with Gamergate" narrative. Because, for once in their miserable lives, they actually did something NICE. Forget that, it's ammo for more slander! Wheeeee!

Just in case you can't be bothered to check, ZQ's entire argument boiled down to two things:

1) That a woman who gets 8% of sales from a game which they conceived of and then helped with the subsequent design process, was being ripped off. Regardless of 8% of sales being an amazing deal for ANY game designer, ANYWHERE, who doesn't shoulder the entire top-to-bottom burden of development.

2) That TFYC was "bigoted" against transgendered persons --- because they required a TG to have made the transition to female before the contest began. The whole point being to prevent MEN from co-opting a fundraiser aimed at WOMEN, without exclusion the TG crowd altogether. ZQ's response? To scream that TFYC was "checking genitals".

You're not only dragging old news in here, but you're ignoring whatever doesn't suit you in order to defend a person who damaged female access to independent games development. Well, except that 4chan rode to the rescue. Sheesh, that statement curdles my spine.

So in other words, she criticised them.

Where's the evidence she doxxed them?

I feel as if we got of topic one way or another the Zoe thing was largely a thing because of the censor ship in question, while we have no evidence that she has doxxed them we do have at-least the evidence above to a lack of her character, in the axillary points.
I still have to wonder how depression quest got on steam, from what I've seen it's not exactly on merit but that is beyond my station, steam as added a number of things.
Wait a moment, indulge and enlighten a poor aspie' what did Zoe cite her stance on the break up to be and doesn't the Zoe post contain chat logs of the subject. I know it isn't evidence but it does help paint a interesting picture.
If that is to be withheld, i have to ask about your previous chain the Anita at threat, wasn't that her first or only free lecture of sommfin'?

 

[Nikolaz72]

After much research, I can safely declare that everyone is wrong.

Except for you, right? XD

This could have quite easily been posted in one of the existing GG threads rather that further monopolising the front page of OT.

Why would I post a thread about being neutral to a thread that is not neutral?

Well, you're just kind of posting your opinion on the situation. It's not really any more novel than the millions of other opinions in the millions of other threads.

Sounds like you're missing the point of this thread. But if my opinion doesn't matter, why respond to it then? What is it you're trying to honestly prove?

I'm not missing the point, I get it.

I'm not trying to prove anything, I'm just getting slightly tired of the entire front page of OT being clogged up with GamerGate threads, especially when a lot of them could quite easily be posted as part of the pre-existing threads.

I've posted my points to these threads before and they go largely ignored.
/quote]

Not ignored as much as lost, there are tens of thousands of people across the internet that is involved in actively discussing this. Your opinion isn't and shouldn't be more prominent than anyone elses.

 

[Otakun]

ok, let me get this straight.

Gamergate isn't instantly changing things for the better so, we just give up? A movement started to stop the previous ones isn't doing anything instantly so GamerGate supporters should do what they want? Being neutral only supports the stopgamergate side, how does not doing anything help the movement that started to begin with? Just because people disagree with your ideals, and they are more then willing to stand out and make themselves look worse in the process, isn't a reason to just give up and sit on the fence. Plus if Boogie2988 has taught us anything, being neutral just attracts hate from both sides.

 

[cleric of the order]

So in other words, she criticised them.

Where's the evidence she doxxed them?

I feel as if we got of topic one way or another the Zoe thing was largely a thing because of the censor ship in question, while we have no evidence that she has doxxed them we do have at-least the evidence above to a lack of her character, in the axillary points.
I still have to wonder how depression quest got on steam, from what I've seen it's not exactly on merit but that is beyond my station, steam as added a number of things.
Wait a moment, indulge and enlighten a poor aspie' what did Zoe cite her stance on the break up to be and doesn't the Zoe post contain chat logs of the subject. I know it isn't evidence but it does help paint a interesting picture.
If that is to be withheld, i have to ask about your previous chain the Anita at threat, wasn't that her first or only free lecture of sommfin'?

So a woman might have a.. bad character? What has that got to do with ethics in journalism..?

What are you getting at with that question about Sarkeesian? Because it looks like you're trying to create a conspiracy that this is a ploy for attention with zero evidence to back up said conspiracy. So it would, of course, require evidence.

Dammit i have to grab my bus in like 20min so i will have to make this quick.
I like to trade in information and that's why I so far have enjoyed this conversation. Though if her nature is suspect if she is willing to lie then well, everything is in question until more facts can be revealed.

Of for the Anita thing, I wanted to makes sure my facts were in order, i haven't really been paying attention to it and i wanted to make sure the facts I'm getting line up with your's the Zoe one had info withheld to me and well trust no one in a game like this.
That being said i do have my ideas here this is going, going to keep my and to myself thank you. Also that was kind a mean, I have suspect evidence not a lack of it, the hypothesis and theory built on it may be suspect but it is in line with the information given.

 

[sataricon]

there can be no middle ground if one side stands for truth and the other for pure bullshit. Go, find a middle ground with cancer and ebola, tell us how it ends.

 

[Akjosch]

there can be no middle ground if one side stands for truth and the other for pure bullshit. Go, find a middle ground with cancer and ebola, tell us how it ends.

The middle ground is then to find a way to fight cancer with ebola.

Seriously: The "no middle ground!" rhetoric has to go. It's not helping. Most people want to just live their lives in peace and maybe play some video games. Let's just leave them.

This isn't even that much related to the current situation - in most societies only a tiny minority will represent the remainder, who simply couldn't care less, will be fine with whatever the outcome will be, and simply shouldn't be bothered by anyone. See: Election and voting participation, especially for stuff which most people simply aren't interested in or don't have the necessary knowledge to grasp.

 

[sataricon]

there can be no middle ground if one side stands for truth and the other for pure bullshit. Go, find a middle ground with cancer and ebola, tell us how it ends.

The middle ground is then to find a way to fight cancer with ebola.

Seriously: The "no middle ground!" rhetoric has to go. It's not helping. Most people want to just live their lives in peace and maybe play some video games. Let's just leave them.

This isn't even that much related to the current situation - in most societies only a tiny minority will represent the remainder, who simply couldn't care less, will be fine with whatever the outcome will be, and simply shouldn't be bothered by anyone. See: Election and voting participation, especially for stuff which most people simply aren't interested in or don't have the necessary knowledge to grasp.

This is true.

What piss many people off is that Before, conservatives wanted to save the children from the horror of video games -- now the libz want to save the women from the horror of video games. The derping dragon bites its own ass. An endless cycle of it eating its own shit. A fitting metaphor for the echo-chamber of the SJW ideology such as the one spewed by people telling us to take middle ground.

 

[wizzy555]

ok, let me get this straight.

Gamergate isn't instantly changing things for the better so, we just give up? A movement started to stop the previous ones isn't doing anything instantly so GamerGate supporters should do what they want? Being neutral only supports the stopgamergate side, how does not doing anything help the movement that started to begin with? Just because people disagree with your ideals, and they are more then willing to stand out and make themselves look worse in the process, isn't a reason to just give up and sit on the fence. Plus if Boogie2988 has taught us anything, being neutral just attracts hate from both sides.

There is no coherent plan to improve things for the better. Incoherent rage is only good for short periods not a sustained movement.

At the moment you are just escalating the arms war.

 

[IceForce]

ok, let me get this straight.

Gamergate isn't instantly changing things for the better so, we just give up? A movement started to stop the previous ones isn't doing anything instantly so GamerGate supporters should do what they want? Being neutral only supports the stopgamergate side, how does not doing anything help the movement that started to begin with? Just because people disagree with your ideals, and they are more then willing to stand out and make themselves look worse in the process, isn't a reason to just give up and sit on the fence.

The problem is, the focus is all wrong. Rather than tackling genuine journalistic problems (such as Shadow of Mordor -gate), GamerGate is too busy shaking their collective fists at 'those evil feminists and SJWs' instead.

 

[erykweb]

Hey, I wouldn't mention it except you decided it was worth trying to dismiss the entire movement over an incident no one otherwise cares about in the face of "Gamers Are Dead" articles that REALLY pissed everyone off.

Care to talk about those?

The main one being Leigh Alexander's. I just reread it, and frankly, she is right. The old demographic labeling of what people stereotypically think of as a "Gamer" was already fading. She outlines what she means by "Gamer," the idea that marketers have had that says that Video games are for young, white, middle class males. This movement, all of this harassment, is the nail in the coffin- proof that that label no longer fits the stereotype, as much as the ones who were stereotyped with it to keep it the same. Then those very same people over react, and what do they do?

Yeah, they threaten and harass her en masse. They did a great job proving her point.


This is what GG has become; an excuse for people to throw hate at others. Who can really say that their lives are improved by the existence of Gamergate? Now how many have had their interaction with their audience dissolved, their jobs threatened, their lives and the lives of their families threatened? This is why people want to stop GamerGate, because it has created an environment where people on both sides yell and threaten each other, with no real benefit to any of us in the end. You will still be getting almost the exact same news, the same information, it will just be packaged differently. Maybe devs won't give journalists as many T-shirts, but honestly, I think that they would be okay with that. The end result does not look radically different than it does today for how much cost there is to all this bickering.

 

[Akjosch]

What is it about being a "Social Justice Warrior" that stops you from being a member, heck not only that but the straight up opponents, to Gamergate? What is it about ethics and corruption in journalism that excludes people who want social justice from being able to join the cause against it?

Nothing?

I'm in favour of social justice - everyone should have the same chances and opportunities in live, no matter who they are and all that (but it's still on them to do something with those). I'm also a staunch supporter of the GamerGate movement. I don't see why those would in any way be contrary to each other.

 

[know whan purr tick]

ok, let me get this straight.

Gamergate isn't instantly changing things for the better so, we just give up? A movement started to stop the previous ones isn't doing anything instantly so GamerGate supporters should do what they want? Being neutral only supports the stopgamergate side, how does not doing anything help the movement that started to begin with? Just because people disagree with your ideals, and they are more then willing to stand out and make themselves look worse in the process, isn't a reason to just give up and sit on the fence.

The problem is, the focus is all wrong. Rather than tackling genuine journalistic problems (such as Shadow of Mordor -gate), GamerGate is too busy shaking their collective fists at 'those evil feminists and SJWs' instead.

The company publishing it (or promoting it, not 100%) is a shady company. Totalbiscuit won't review their games. jimquisition covered this and the contract required to cover it. Do the movement a favor and track down that publisher/promoter and join the cause!

One of us One of us
One of us One of us
miso eating gymnasts
One of us One of us

 

[grassgremlin]

Can... can this be the new GG thread? Please, with a cherry on top?

Seriously though, as a former GG supporter I'm firmly entrenched in the idea that both sides are utterly abhorrent. So many personal attacks, blatant dismissals, villainization of the opposition, strawmanning the fuck out of people's arguments, complete disregard for being the better person; the list goes on. Nobody's in the right here. Not the pricks calling GamerGaters terrorists and subhuman, nor the monsters devoted to making Sarkessian's life hell. Seriously, at this point the only people that come to mind that I respect in regards to this debate is TB and Tito.

I also don't blame the OP for not wanting to post in the monster thread. I haven't been there in weeks, but if it's anything like it was when I dropped out of it then at best he would have gotten very biased responses, since so few against GG actually post there. At worst... well, I think you already know the answer to that one. We don't go to Ravenholm the GamerGate thread.

Guys, can't we all just get drunk, hang out and relax a bit?
PM me if you want to get drunk and hang out.

But I don't do alchohol! Whatever shall I do?! T-T

I hope more people can explain to my why this so called "war" is important.
Because what I see seems to be the same rhetoric.
Everyone wants the same thing, so it's all just a war of who can slander the other side more.

I won't denounce the achievements gamergate has done, but I still think it's a losing battle as long as it stays as disorganized as it currently is.

My main problem with the whole stink is that I'm just too old for this.
Why are people trying to report this on the mainstream news. Do you have any idea how dumb we look?
For both people for and against gamergate.

I never cringe so hard to find out the nytimes and msnbc are reporting this. Video game problems.
Listen guys, I hate to break it to the gaming public, but the real world doesn't give a shit.

I use to thought this meant something, but all it's been is a waste of time for me. Speaking to either side, it's been a waste. No one wants to actually listen and pay attention to each other.

Like they say, arguing is all about winning. That's all people care about. How much you want to be nothing will change when this is over.

If someone can convince me that this entire "gaming war" isn't a massive waste of everyone's time, I'd like to here it. I agree with you though. The only rational people that exist is Tito and Total Biscuit.