Gamers Only 20 Percent of Games Workshop's Customers
- Thread starter StewShearerOld
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I can only attribute this to the fact that Games Workshop has watered down and abandoned so many of their games that no one takes them seriously as a gaming company anymore. They're just a model company now and it shows. The shit show that is age of sigmar shows how much people really care for their games anymore.
I skimmed the thread but I didn't see this mentioned before: That 20% stat is complete hockus pockus. Tom Kirby has stated in previous documents that Games Workshop does 0 market research. A grand total of nill. They have absolutely no clue what their audience likes, wants, or desires. I'm far too tired from class to link to this, but look for it and you will find it.
Someone in the hobby for modeling will happily buy one cool tank for his collection, maybe two. A gamer will happily buy six at once if the rules are good and he wants six in his army on the table.
Gamers keep them afloat, and with each edition of the rules the armies get crazier and bigger, as do the models. They seem hellbent on making it impossible to play with smaller scale models. It's go big, or go home. This approach prices more and more people out of the hobby, as not everyone can afford the cold war style arms race with the other people in the community. I'm a student, and I love playing Warhammer 40K. It is what gets me to buy, build, and paint the models. I used to love playing at my local Games Workshop here in Ottawa, but as new rules came out, I was priced out. I simply can't afford to go into the store to play random pick up games because I simply cannot fight the big expensive models with my own armies. On top of that, the rules started to go down hill. They become increasingly unbalanced with each release, and me and my wallet simply can't keep up. I can easily coincide my decrease in time spent at the local GW with the new company policies and the new rules. And as I play less and less, I spend less and less. I haven't bought a model in forever, and lately I don't even make the effort to get the newest army books for the armies that I play.
I'll finish by saying that I always wanted to start playing fantasy, but one look at the Age of Sigmar rules stifled that feeling completely. That's easily $1K and more they have lost in sales. The AoS rules are abysmal - no one in their right mind would play it. It really does look like it's designed for frat boys, to be played with beer and pretzels. Perhaps what bothers me the most is that there is no reason why AoS couldn't have existed beside WH Fantasy. They got rid of WH Fantasy for really no reason. And with it, they completely alienated every fantasy player I know in my city, who can now no longer play in the local store.
Edit: I forgot to mention that while I am interested in Total War: Warhammer, you have to keep in mind that when they released AoS they completely axed Warhammer Fantasy, which it is based on.
Someone in the hobby for modeling will happily buy one cool tank for his collection, maybe two. A gamer will happily buy six at once if the rules are good and he wants six in his army on the table.
Gamers keep them afloat, and with each edition of the rules the armies get crazier and bigger, as do the models. They seem hellbent on making it impossible to play with smaller scale models. It's go big, or go home. This approach prices more and more people out of the hobby, as not everyone can afford the cold war style arms race with the other people in the community. I'm a student, and I love playing Warhammer 40K. It is what gets me to buy, build, and paint the models. I used to love playing at my local Games Workshop here in Ottawa, but as new rules came out, I was priced out. I simply can't afford to go into the store to play random pick up games because I simply cannot fight the big expensive models with my own armies. On top of that, the rules started to go down hill. They become increasingly unbalanced with each release, and me and my wallet simply can't keep up. I can easily coincide my decrease in time spent at the local GW with the new company policies and the new rules. And as I play less and less, I spend less and less. I haven't bought a model in forever, and lately I don't even make the effort to get the newest army books for the armies that I play.
I'll finish by saying that I always wanted to start playing fantasy, but one look at the Age of Sigmar rules stifled that feeling completely. That's easily $1K and more they have lost in sales. The AoS rules are abysmal - no one in their right mind would play it. It really does look like it's designed for frat boys, to be played with beer and pretzels. Perhaps what bothers me the most is that there is no reason why AoS couldn't have existed beside WH Fantasy. They got rid of WH Fantasy for really no reason. And with it, they completely alienated every fantasy player I know in my city, who can now no longer play in the local store.
Edit: I forgot to mention that while I am interested in Total War: Warhammer, you have to keep in mind that when they released AoS they completely axed Warhammer Fantasy, which it is based on.
1. Their rules are/were over complicated and broken, while the enjoyable games aren't printed anymore.
2. Their models are/were very detailed and high quality, and many of their kits are cross compatible.
GW: PEOPLE ARE BUYING OUR STUFF BUT NOT PLAYING OUR GAMES, WHHHHHHY!?
2. Their models are/were very detailed and high quality, and many of their kits are cross compatible.
GW: PEOPLE ARE BUYING OUR STUFF BUT NOT PLAYING OUR GAMES, WHHHHHHY!?
20% sounds a bit generous. We used to regularly have a packed store during 6th edition, now I think 40k is basically dead around here, a victim of 7th edition model creep. It's fortuitous for them that they don't consider themselves a games company, as if they were their business model would make no sense. Jacking the prices up AND throwing balance out the window is a great way to alienate people. I mean, I loves me some Orks, but I can't justify shelling out that much cash on a bunch of new stuff, spend tens of hours assembling it, and still get stomped by my friends artillery because Imperium.
At this point, it's basically come down to enjoying the licensed products made by Fantasy Flight Games, and maybe looking into playing some of the out of print specialty products. Balance be damned, Blood Bowl looks like tons of fun, and only needing to build 10-20 models from scratch beats the hell out of the hundreds you'd need to MAYBE have fun in 40k.
At this point, it's basically come down to enjoying the licensed products made by Fantasy Flight Games, and maybe looking into playing some of the out of print specialty products. Balance be damned, Blood Bowl looks like tons of fun, and only needing to build 10-20 models from scratch beats the hell out of the hundreds you'd need to MAYBE have fun in 40k.
This is why I will be forever disappointed that Havok never took off.BeerTent said:
(If you don't know what I'm talking about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havok_%28wargame%29 )
These thing are basically on the same level as artwork and other decorations one would put in their house. Also, most gamers don't have the spare money to buy such items.
This doesn't surprise me at all, for three main reasons.
1. The models are extremely expensive, and collecting Games Workshop stuff has become a hobby for people with quite a bit of disposable income. The people who really care about playing the game often just don't have that kind of money, because the players tend to be younger than the collectors.
2. The game itself simply doesn't mesh well with the collector and hobbyist side of things, because building a competitive army rarely ever allows you to buy the models you personally think look cool and ends up with you having to paint way more grunts than you feel like. Even if none of that scares you away, the time and space required to actually play can be a dealbreaker for lots of people. On top of that there is a competitive aspect to the game that runs completely contrary to the nature of most people who get enjoyment out of painstakingly painting tiny miniatures.
3. There are a ton of games by companies that are just better for gamers. All of the Fantasy Flight stuff pretty much comes with pre-assembled, pre-painted miniatures that just look a thousand times better than anything the average person can produce with a brush. You just throw the pieces on the table and you're ready to play. Games Workshop stuff is twice as expensive when you factor in paints and brushes and you have to build it yourself so you can fuck it up and your models are ruined. (And no, you can't use the same brush for 200 minis and you can't use the paints you used for your last army, not understanding how huge of an impact worn out tools and globby paint make will make your models look much worse)
1. The models are extremely expensive, and collecting Games Workshop stuff has become a hobby for people with quite a bit of disposable income. The people who really care about playing the game often just don't have that kind of money, because the players tend to be younger than the collectors.
2. The game itself simply doesn't mesh well with the collector and hobbyist side of things, because building a competitive army rarely ever allows you to buy the models you personally think look cool and ends up with you having to paint way more grunts than you feel like. Even if none of that scares you away, the time and space required to actually play can be a dealbreaker for lots of people. On top of that there is a competitive aspect to the game that runs completely contrary to the nature of most people who get enjoyment out of painstakingly painting tiny miniatures.
3. There are a ton of games by companies that are just better for gamers. All of the Fantasy Flight stuff pretty much comes with pre-assembled, pre-painted miniatures that just look a thousand times better than anything the average person can produce with a brush. You just throw the pieces on the table and you're ready to play. Games Workshop stuff is twice as expensive when you factor in paints and brushes and you have to build it yourself so you can fuck it up and your models are ruined. (And no, you can't use the same brush for 200 minis and you can't use the paints you used for your last army, not understanding how huge of an impact worn out tools and globby paint make will make your models look much worse)
It's such a shame that Creative Assembly has essentially adopted the DLC method of sale.
If Games Workshop was going to breach the divide it would be with Total Warhammer (I refuse to call it Total War: Warhammer, that's just terrible marketing).
Space Marine not getting a sequel is a fucking travesty as well. There was SO much promise and SO much personality to it.
If Games Workshop was going to breach the divide it would be with Total Warhammer (I refuse to call it Total War: Warhammer, that's just terrible marketing).
Space Marine not getting a sequel is a fucking travesty as well. There was SO much promise and SO much personality to it.
I think over the course of my life I've spent or been gifted about $750 worth of Games Workshop products and only ever actually played about five games in any of the rulebooks. I can believe these stats.
10 years ago I and my friend were really into 40k, we used to regularly visit the GW shop in Gothenburg and on weekends it was always packed with people who were either there to play/paint or shop. Then we stopped playing and I haven't visited the store since 2007. Until last week when I was in Gothenburg and recalled that I had read on a Flames of War forum (a 15mm WW2 miniature game) that someone used a GW paint to create some neat looking, yet simple to make, dirt caking on his tanks. So I stopped by the store around noon on a Saturday... And there was maybe seven people in there, of which two were employees. Gone where the 30+ people that I remembered from my active days, replaced with an almost empty store.ccggenius12 said:
I've heard a lot about how GW has lost market shares since I stopped playing, but the sight of a nearly empty GW store was what really drove it home for me.
The low amount of gamers is also due to GW driving them out of their business. We had regular fun tournaments in our rather small city and had 20-30 people that showed up regularly.
That was a few years ago. Nowadays i know at least 15-20 that stopped playing because GW just fucks you over with the rules forcing you to buy their latest imba-shit and also generally makin' the game unplaybable due to constant erratas, rearraging the rules and just flat out wrong reading of their own rules in FAQ's/Errata Sheets.
Ontop of that the playerbase is on the CoD/CS:Go/LoL level of douchiness. People sometimes show behaviour that would net them warnings and DQ's at an MTG event.
That was a few years ago. Nowadays i know at least 15-20 that stopped playing because GW just fucks you over with the rules forcing you to buy their latest imba-shit and also generally makin' the game unplaybable due to constant erratas, rearraging the rules and just flat out wrong reading of their own rules in FAQ's/Errata Sheets.
Ontop of that the playerbase is on the CoD/CS:Go/LoL level of douchiness. People sometimes show behaviour that would net them warnings and DQ's at an MTG event.
Makes sense. Between over priced models and the ever increasing one-upmanship of the codices, 40k doesn't really appeal to people wanting to play a game, not to mention bloody AoS. I was one of the customers buying to actually play, but I haven't bought or played anything GW for a good long while. Moving onto cheaper and better things.
It's something they've been wanting to do for years. I have no idea if these numbers are true (I personally doubt it, but I can't say they are wrong), but they've been trying to claim it's a "hobby store" over a "gaming store" to try and decrease the size of their shops, and remove gaming tables/staff. Part of the reason I stopped caring much about them, they stopped caring about their own game.MerlinCross said:
That and the models just keep getting more and more bloody expensive.
2 reasons for this off the top of my head:
1.) The steady disappearance of brick-and-mortar GW stores, removing what was once the de facto social space for hobbyists/players.
2.) The rules of both major games being ripped to pieces every new edition, almost always for the worse (poor Fantasy...)
1.) The steady disappearance of brick-and-mortar GW stores, removing what was once the de facto social space for hobbyists/players.
2.) The rules of both major games being ripped to pieces every new edition, almost always for the worse (poor Fantasy...)