Games and storys....are we doing it wrong?

[Bostur]

Video game stories are terrible compared to other media. And I completely agree if an artist has a story to tell, video game is not a good medium.

The funny thing is that some years ago stories were not important to games, and were almost added as an afterthought. Adventure games and RPGs were the exception. We have come to expect that games must have stories, we also accept that the quality is low. Even worse in my opinion is that we accept that stories work as crutches for gameplay, because of the story we accept gameplay at a lower quality than we otherwise would have. How fun would Bioshock have been without a story? Well 15 years ago it would have needed to be fun, because there would be no story.

I like a decent story in a game, and in certain genres I expect it. But unfortunately there is now so much focus on story that other aspects go undeveloped.

The first Portal is a great example of a game that would work fine without any story, just a series of test chambers would do. Or how about Terraria or Minecraft, they have no story at all.

 

[BreakfastMan]

I would say that a "story" in a game provides context to the events of the game while providing meaning to each of the player's actions and events in the game.

On average? Yeah, most game stories are pretty terrible. .

jus tout of curiosity I wouldnt mind a list or somthing of games you consider to have bad storys

Okay, here you go:

Spoiler

Gears 1-3
Red Faction: Guerrilla
FEAR1-2 (can't comment on others)
Fable 1-2 (haven't completed 3 yet, so can't comment on that one)
Prey
Halo 2, 3, Reach
Star Wars: TFU
Overlord
Too Human
Ninja Blade
Tales of Vesperia+Symphonia
Jak 1, 3
Onimusha
Star Ocean: Till the End of Time
Dark Cloud
Clock Tower 3
Siren, from what I have played
Hitman: Blood Money
Devil May Cry
GRAW
Splinter Cell 1-3 (can't comment on others)
Chrono Cross
STALKER
Dead Space 2
Just Cause 2
Star Wars: Republic Commando
Realms of the Haunting
P.N.03
Resident Evil 4
Metroid Prime
Metal Gear Solid 4 (weakest of all the MGS games)

There are more, but I got bored of looking though my collection for games with stories that I thought were bad for one reason or another.

thanks!

I can totally see red faction gurrella, though Im unsure about Dead space 2, but Id rather not disucss that one because I havnt finished it (I know..I KNOW) so who knows

If you want to know my problems with dead space 2, you can find them, spoiler free, here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.339192-Breakfastmans-Gamegaddon-Dead-Space-2] in this review I wrote of the game recently. /shamelessplug

Basically: Had potential and a number of good ideas, wasted them all.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

There are some games with brilliant stories that are open to interpretation, and done in a way that allows the player to discover the meaning on their own... The one that comes to mind is Braid...

The problem then with games is that you cannot have 'just story'... that would just suck... Imagine playing 'An Inspector Calls' the game... [footnote]It's a play which takes place entirely in a living room, with dialogue... nothing else happens, its just talking, but it is still a brilliant story about how every member of this particular family is linked to the psychological well-being of a girl who had committed suicide... the inspector himself is open to interpretation, and can be taken in many ways. Some interpret him to be a figment of the viewers imagination, and is only there to instil the conversation and make the family members realise their errors, where as other people take him as literally just an inspector, but one who really knew the families doings inside out... very clever story.[/footnote] The game would suck... you would only just keep pressing A/X over and over until game over... great! Braid itself had very clever fragments of story woven into it, and much of the game was metaphorical to the plot... but the game play itself, although brilliant, was very much irrelevant from a story perspective... What you get with games are fragments of story, broken up with action sequences in between, but this is good, as when you are in control, you don't particularly want to try and focus on an unfolding story as well.
Take a game like Ace Combat, which often puts story in dialogue that play through the in game radios... you can hear TV reports, and ground forces, and even sometimes the enemy... it portrays characters feelings of events that you are watching from 10,000-30,000 feet, and would have therefore been to far from the action to care. The only problem with this is that myself, and I imagine a lot of other players miss lots of this dialogue when they play, because they are to busy being occupied by dogfighting, trying not to crash, and racking up points, to notice the news report of the president escaping in a helicopter...!

Other games which focus on game play and story like Stranglehold, Metal Gear Solid or The Getaway do it brilliantly, but when you look at it, the bits you play are essentially just transporting you to the next bit of story, and you playing has little to no effect on the story what so ever... You know Hammond in the Getaway will get to his son just in time, no matter how many times he stops to have shoot-outs with the police, causing mass genocide, or acting like a spastic and getting repeatedly run over, on the way.

I can see what Jaffe is implying, but I think he went about it in too much of a broad-brush sweeping way. I think what he was implying is that the types of heavy hitting stories, that you find in other types of media, are not suited to the gaming world, and that other developers should stop kidding themselves that they are actually creating something more than they are.

Personally I disagree with this. I think that we are just yet to see real stories told in games, where the players can discover it themselves, and where the pace is set just enough that the story is more involved with the game play itself... Until then I look forward to more simple, yet effective story telling through cinematic events, set pieces and cut scenes.

EDIT: On another note, does every game need a good story...? I see they try and inject stories in the strangest of places now... Like the new Tiger Woods where you start as a kid, and learn golf with the character as s/he grows up... Do you actually need that, or should games like that just stick to what they are good at...? The action?

 

[BreakfastMan]

The problem then with games is that you cannot have 'just story'... that would just suck... Imagine playing 'An Inspector Calls' the game...

Actually, it has pretty much already been done. It is called "Facade", it is freeware, and it is damn brilliant to boot.

EDIT: "An Inspector Calls" the game, that is...

 

[Joepow]

Well, in 99% of the cases he's right.

In non-independent games the story plays almost always secondary role (or worse). I can't think of any game that was made for its story (although there might be a few).On the other hand independent games with a small team and budget put massive constrains to the story. Now these problems are not exclusive to the game industry, but they are bigger than in any other artistic field.

That's not to say that games are an inherently worse medium than others to tell a story, but at least for the time being 99% of storywriters should look at other mediums to tell their story.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

The problem then with games is that you cannot have 'just story'... that would just suck... Imagine playing 'An Inspector Calls' the game...

Actually, it has pretty much already been done. It is called "Facade", it is freeware, and it is damn brilliant to boot.

EDIT: "An Inspector Calls" the game, that is...

Ooh.. Thank you! I'll have to check that out!! Unfortunately it is bed time for me now! (1330!!) So I will download it tomorrow! Cheers for that though, it looks good!

(for those interested, Facade. Linked because it could help to give a different perspective)

 

[Vault101]

storywriters should look at other mediums to tell their story.

my problem with that is it feels like saying "yeah, it doesnt work, why bother?"

 

[josemlopes]

They all having specific effects that are more important than the actual character response. I actually liked this about Mass Effect. Mass Effect's dialogue didn't have different effects other than steering the conversation. This of course was thrown out the window of overall story thanks to the Para/Ren polarity. Alpha Protocol tried something similar but seeing +1's and -1's popping up completely undermined the point of it. The player would say "I want that character to like me" and chose those options or said "I want to be a renegade" so they chose those options. This completely pulls any real connection to the dialogue out of the writing and pulls the player character into shallow realms.

THIS. It's so true. I really can't help it, it bothers me if I want to make a decision, but I know that the decision will lead to a much less optimal result later. I can understand if it happens sometimes, you can't make all decisions equal, but if it happens often then the story element kind of falls to the side and it becomes a game in and of itself, not roleplaying or whatever it was meant to be. There's an optimal path and sometimes that kind of detracts from things. Of course the alternative is where decisions seem to mean nothing and kind of feel lame...

Try The Witcher 2, they do some cool stuff with choices. You wont know exactly their outcome but they arent random, they are like real choices where you actually never really know if it was the best choice.

 

[Teh Jammah]

Well, a lot of the problem is that video games by nature are a lot more action focussed than their other counterparts. Even an excuse-plot set-piece onslaught film like, say 'Crank' (about as close to a video game as films get), still has moments where there's a lull in the action that doesn't really translate into a video game, save for the usual cut scenes.

And due to the nature of the medium, not many games' plot ultimately tends to go much further than 'go to point x, kill anything in your way, rinse & repeat until done'

 

[Manji187]

"Storys"?

...

Anyway...

I think games could have great stories. Hell, they could have the best stories.

However, they don't. On average, the stories in games are utterly fucking abysmal. Even disregarding the ones that have no story at all, 90% are on the level of The Expendables. Even worse, this seems to have led to gamers having abysmally low standards to match. Most of the stuff we hail as brilliant is barely worth the title of average. Try telling someone who reads good books or watches good movies that Uncharted has a great story. They will laugh in your miserable face, and rightly so.

Some of the reasons for this:

- Storytelling, funnily enough, is really hard. Many game story writers are hacks, plain and simple. Hell, a lot of them aren't even writers at all, just programmers with delusions of talent.

- Most games are built around a blunt power fantasy. They're more concerned with making the player's balls feel big than constructing a decent narrative.

- Games are a business and good stories don't translate into sales. You could spend years putting together an intricate, spell-binding, heart warming tale of elation, tragedy and everything in between, rich with profound philosophical insights and capable of making jaded critics burst into tears. Come launch day it will get crushed by Shoot Man 9 and +1 Strength Adventures in Totally-Not-Middle-Earth. Your publisher, if you have one, will not be pleased.

- Developers still aren't sure how to meld story and gameplay. Often they're kept separate, with all the story progression taking place during non-interactive cutscenes and dialogue, constantly interrupted by the player going on a protracted murder spree for no reason other than it being expected of a game. Other times they're in conflict with one another, y'know, like when your regenerating character can shrug off bullets in gameplay but then gets shot once in a cutscene and suddenly it's a big deal.

Now, before people start hurling their favourite "brilliant" story-based games at me, yes, I know there are some decent ones out there and I love them for it. I love Bioshock for it's narrative and setting, I love the Mass Effect games for their characters, I love Shadow of the Colossus for reasons I'm not quite sure about.

But damn if you don't have to laboriously sift through acres of steaming manure to find the worthwhile stuff.

Basically this. All of it.

For instance, the best of Mass Effect has nothing on the best of Star Trek (especially TNG). Mass Effect is just another power fantasy that happens to be set in space. It basically goes "you are awesome, go kick some alien ass cuz you're the only one who can...that's how awesome you are!".

OP mentioned Portal. Although a very good example of fusing narrative and gameplay, Portal still feels very isolated/ reductionist. Maybe it derives most of its strength from being such a limited and controlled environment and experience.

Chell doesn't speak; who knows what goes on in her mind (opportunity for the player to project and attribute things that simply aren't there). There are no NPC's to interact with. The testing labs are the whole world for Chell.

I think that what developers can learn from Portal is that it's all about focussing and directing the attention of the player. The player's gaze is what enables everything. A player can totally miss things like graffiti and whatnot, simply by not looking. But if you have arrows painted in blood (or red paint) on white walls...it's difficult to miss. Developers should study the human perception and psychology. How does the human mind process certain visual cues? What colors and shapes attract the attention and so on.

It's also very refreshing to progress without having to kill anything. That's another lesson. If killing is the only or predominant way of dealing with conflict/ obstacles...the developer is likely to shit out another generic shooter or hack-and-slash. Didn't older games have the option to talk/ charm your way out of almost any situation?

Another refreshing thing is that in Portal you don't have to save the world. You're just trying to survive and escape.

I wonder what kind of games would be made if for the space of one year, all developers would be magically PROHIBITED from making games in which the player has to save other stuff (the princess, the country, the world, the universe) by predominantly killing/ destroying obstacles. Now that would be an interesting challenge. Sadly, it's also never gonna happen.

 

[psychic psycho]

I think video game stories could be better if they didn't just emulate books or movies in how they tell they're stories. It doesn't necessarily have to be interactive (as in dialog choices). The Half-Life and Metroid Prime series do this fairly well. A lot of information is derived from exploring and looking at the envirnoment.

There's also the fact that narratives usually take back-seat to actual gameplay. Of course, that's probably how it should be since they are games. However, that doesn't mean developers should give up on trying to make the gameplay and story a more cohesive experience. As, in telling the story through gameplay. I can only think of one game that melds game and narrative perfectly: the DS adventure game Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors. 999 takes a story and tells it in such away that MASSIVELY improves it and is impossible to achieve in any other medium. The gameplay and story perfectly compliment each other; neither taking away from the other. It does take awhile for it to become apparent though; it looks like a choose your own adventure with "escape the room" puzzles, but is much, much more than that.

 

[FalloutJack]

The guy compares the gaming industry to McDonalds (in the venue of his analogy there). I'm fairly certain that's bullshit in of itself. Because NOT EVERYONE can walk into a frigging game-related ANYTHING and serve it up with the proverbial fries. Not even Indie games are so easy that anybody can do it. Not even FLASH GAMES...on NEWGROUNDS...THAT ARE GOOD...fall under that category, since that requires some decent computer and animation knowledge which many people DO NOT HAVE. That analogy is completely full of it.

 

[Mr.Squishy]

I could start espousing the gospel of gaming and it's importance as a narrative medium, albeit still struggling to find its footing being such a young medium to film, books and all of that, or I could just point you over to www.extra-credits.net

 

[CrystalShadow]

He might have a point if by story you restrict yourself to traditional notions of narrative.

But, those are inherently linear, so of course an interactive environment is kind of at odds with that idea.

However, I think games have a great potential to examine a concept from multiple angles.

Like, instead of saying:

"This is a story about a hero who saves the universe", which is what books, plays and films might do...

We can say this instead.

"This is an exploration of what is possible if you task someone with saving the universe from this kind of threat."

It's a scenario, rather than a story.

The difference is basically the difference between going from a one dimensional shape, to a two dimensional one.

You no longer have a fixed story, but a range of possible stories that could all happen.

But... For this to work as a concept, you have to let go of a few things.
Like forcing a specific narrative out of it.

You can give shape to the scenario, and encourage certain directions by what you choose to make possible, and what you don't...

But you can't force a specific narrative on it, because then, yes, you are sort of using the abilities of gaming badly.

Even the most linear of games is a study in choice, and alternatives. Even if those choices are very restricted.

You simply end up with a linear chain of very small scenarios.
You can do whatever within those scenarios, but they are joined together in an inflexible manner.

An open world game is almost the opposite. One huge scenario, with smaller, more restricted parts strewn about almost at random.

A game is a good choice for exploring a story if you have multiple perspectives to show, perhaps less so if you have one, and only one way you want something to work, but regardless I would think it's a bit of an over-statement being made here.

 

[Gatx]

It's a case by case thing. I mean, the story of Shadow of the Colossus just can't be experienced any other way in my opinion, but the Modern Warfare series could easily be a movie. As for a philosophy, an idea, I think a game can get that across better than anything else, letting someone actually experience it quickly and effectively, as opposed to writing down a manifesto for fanatics and intellectuals to dig into.

 

[Bostur]

storywriters should look at other mediums to tell their story.

my problem with that is it feels like saying "yeah, it doesnt work, why bother?"

Why is that a problem? There are several great artforms that aren't particularly well suited at storytelling. Paintings and music comes to mind. They tell something, but it usually isn't what we would call a traditional story. In my mind games do something else, something different than what traditional stories do. Isn't that partly why it can be considered a unique medium?

 

[Zen Toombs]

-stuff-

Good topic. I will say that it was done before [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.345764-Games-Hurt-Stories-Stories-Hurt-Games#13828822], but I feel that the thread died before its time.

OT: While the stories of most games are pretty bad, the stories of most movies and books are terrible as well. Games are a unique medium that can tell a story in a unique way, one that other mediums can never hope to accomplish. It's like Watchmen - from a story and artistic standpoint, the comic was much better than the movie, because it played to the strengths of the medium. The movie, however, did not.

 

[Hosker]

Books are better devices for telling stories, but that's not to say games are bad. I think they need cutscenes or at least a lot of dialogue to work well, though.

 

[Domehammer]

Some of my biggest annoyances with games in story telling for myself are cut scenes not made using game or using game and showing things the player can NEVER do. Really player character moving and talking in a cut scene made with game is fine but when player character does a awesome combat move that is crossing line. Opening cut scene for AC: Revelations I actually hated it. Sure it was action scene telling story but would of been better if it was done in actual game. I wasn't caring about story at end of cut scene I was mashing buttons to see if I could skip it.

Though I probably just am to hard on cut scenes ruining story for myself.

 

[krazykidd]

Guy is an idiot.

Play Bioshock. Tell me it would have been better as a movie. Play Mass Effect, Or Dragon Age. Such games would be terrible as movies. IMO, Gaming is the BEST medium for telling stories on, as it has many more opportunities than film or books to exploit. It also gets you the most engaged in your character by the virtue that the character is you.
Honestly, since I started gaming and playing story driven games, I have watched maybe 5 movies, been disappointed by 3, one of which because it wasn't as good as the game it was based off. I have read 1 book, and found it somewhat underwhelming. Games>Other when it comes to stories for me.
IDK, maybe this guy has only played games with mediocre stories, like CoD, BF3 or 90% of first person shooters. Really though, it is rare I play a game and say 'I wish there was a movie of this for me to watch' (The exception being ToR cinematics. Make a movie of that and take my money). I almost always see some TV show and say 'Wish there was a game like that' though.

Dude a couple of examples doesn't prove him wrong. It just proved that games are capable but most games don't. I think he has a point though . I mean. For me personally story is very important . Most stories in video games are mediocre at best . A few games have exceptional stories . I just thinking video game writers need to step up their game if they want to be taken seriously. This is not to say a game can't be fun with a bad story, but a fun game with a good story would be better . And yes writing a good story is hard i know, but are the writers really trying to write a good story? Or are they just trying to make it coherent?