Games that you love to watch, but hate to play

[EvilRoy]

The "strategy" is basically the resource collection/management and knowing which units to have and where to send them at which times; clicking even 384 times a second can't compensate for not knowing what you're doing. I've always likened it to the video of this kid juggling and solving Rubik's Cubes: immensely impressive feat, but why the hell would you???


Either way, RTSs always leads to confusing, cluster-fuckery in the end, and it amazes me that anyone can competently manage it all and for FUN nonetheless.

I used to play RTS games exclusively, and a lot of the fun really comes from envisioning a strategy and forcing it through to the conclusion - bonus points for winning. Those last cluster fuck moments are often just that - pros can keep a handle on it but if you're playing anywhere else most often you're basically cycling through unit types and making sure they're shooting the right enemy rather than making significant longer term strategic choices. The individual overall strategy at play was decided when you started playing and from there it basically turns into a question of picking right and adjusting if you picked wrong.

Now that I'm older and slowed down a lot (,and honestly enjoy games where you walk through the countryside delivering packages) I've been on the hunt for a more realistic RTS. When I say realistic I don't mean "WW2 down to the nuts and bolts", I'm talking about information availability, order delays, incorrect information and so on.

I'd play red alert 3 again, war bears and all, and still love it but what I want is a game where units can't react immediately to orders because it takes a while to hear and understand it. Or where the information you get is communicated by people under fire and is therefore not necessarily totally accurate.

Something super heavy on the strategy without going turn based on me.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Basically anything designed around inducing rage via finicky physics/controls.

 

[Agema]

The "strategy" is basically the resource collection/management and knowing which units to have and where to send them at which times; clicking even 384 times a second can't compensate for not knowing what you're doing. I've always likened it to the video of this kid juggling and solving Rubik's Cubes: immensely impressive feat, but why the hell would you???

I agree.

But on the other hand, the contribution of being fast and dextrous is sufficient that a top player must be so, and that it has considerable ability to compensate for strategic inferiority against a player less physically adroit.

Perhaps as a little bit of a wargaming enthusiast, I hold to the principle that generals shouldn't win wars because they're good at swordplay.

Now that I'm older and slowed down a lot (,and honestly enjoy games where you walk through the countryside delivering packages) I've been on the hunt for a more realistic RTS. When I say realistic I don't mean "WW2 down to the nuts and bolts", I'm talking about information availability, order delays, incorrect information and so on.

Command Ops 2 - you can download the engine free, with two scenarios. If you like the look, the mission packs are on the pricey side. They term it "pausible continuous time". However, it's more in common with a hex wargame: complexity level very high so might not be what you're looking for.

I'm pretty sure the Combat Mission series is still going - haven't played any for ~20 years so not sure what the latest versions are like.

And the venerable but much-loved Close Combat series, which I think was recently tarted up and re-released, although the price tags are a little steep for what are old games, irrespective of the updating.

Of course, these don't tend to have the classic RTS staples of resource gathering and management.

 

[EvilRoy]

I agree.

But on the other hand, the contribution of being fast and dextrous is sufficient that a top player must be so, and that it has considerable ability to compensate for strategic inferiority against a player less physically adroit.

Perhaps as a little bit of a wargaming enthusiast, I hold to the principle that generals shouldn't win wars because they're good at swordplay.



Command Ops 2 - you can download the engine free, with two scenarios. If you like the look, the mission packs are on the pricey side. They term it "pausible continuous time". However, it's more in common with a hex wargame: complexity level very high so might not be what you're looking for.

I'm pretty sure the Combat Mission series is still going - haven't played any for ~20 years so not sure what the latest versions are like.

And the venerable but much-loved Close Combat series, which I think was recently tarted up and re-released, although the price tags are a little steep for what are old games, irrespective of the updating.

Of course, these don't tend to have the classic RTS staples of resource gathering and management.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll check those out when I'm back in town.

 

[SilentPony]

My girlfriend loves Minecraft, but I get horrifically bored after the first 10 minutes.

Once you get 4 walls, a bed, and a decent supply of food... everything else is just extraneous.

Im a bit of a hypocrite, because I normally roll my eyes when a game advertises itself with crafting and survival elements, but I wish Minecraft would lean into that, more.

To me a great crafting/survival game is Subnautica, because there's a goal and a setting and a plot. You're on an alien ocean world and want to escape, with escaping basically being the final boss. Sure there's a goofy fire breathing lava dragon but its really goofy and sucks all the immersion out of the game instantly. The real boss is the planet and escaping it.
In Minecraft I get that there is a hell dimension, and a final boss dragon but there's no reason to go there, and no actual plot. Like you said once you build a house and bed and get food you've basically peaked, everything else, including fighting the boss is just busy work.

 

[Dalisclock]

Basically anything designed around inducing rage via finicky physics/controls.

I'm all for watching Dunkey suffer through what might be one of the most Infuriating games imaginable for my entertainment.

I'm probably a terrible person and I'll cop to that.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Another one is Metal Gear Solid watching people like Dunkey do dumbshit is great me try to move and cycle weapons and stealth bad is not a good look.

Speaking of Dunkey, platformers. Always fun to see either someone skillfully maneuver around a level or absolutely lose it after they die for the umpteenth time.

But I personally fucking hate platformers, instant death and time restrictions are most definitely not my thing.

 

[Gergar12]

War Thunder, it's not very forgiving for those who don't play it a lot.

 

[MrCalavera]

Basically anything designed around inducing rage via finicky physics/controls.

I too am a fan of "suffer for our entertainment" LP genre.

 

[happyninja42]

4X style games, like Stellaris, Crusader Kings 3, Total War, etc. I keep watching videos of people playing them, and enjoy it on several levels, but then I try and play them, and just do not have a fun time of it. I get bored/frustrated with a lot of the micromanagement aspects of them (something that often gets edited out in YT videos), the way the AI will often focus down on the player, even if it doesn't make much sense when they have other threats going on. I just get tired of them very quickly, and regret buying them, and they get uninstalled very quickly.

 

[BrawlMan]

Any Dark Souls style games. I respect the genre for what it did, but it does nothing for me. Metroidvanias. Most of those type of games I do not like, but I don't mind watching certain personalities play.

 

[happyninja42]

Any Dark Souls style games. I respect the genre for what it did, but it does nothing for me. Metroidvanias. Most of those type of games I do not like, but I don't mind watching certain personalities play.

Yeah, that too, usually I only enjoy watching it, when it's some YT streamers who are just taking the piss out of the insanity of the games. I think my favorite example of this, was a...3 part series(?) by SuperButterBuns, of Bloodborne. She got several of her online gaming friends, including Forever_KT (he's amazing), who had never played it. And it's as insane, chaotic, and ludicrous as you can expect from a bunch of goofy nerds trying to go through that game. Forever_KT was triply hilarious, because:
1. He's got a very flamboyantly gay kind of voice and demeanor, so it was hilarious hearing him sass up the game and his friends. I mean seriously, there is nothing funnier than hearing someone treating BLOODBORNE, like an episode of that drag queen show with Ru Paul.
2. He was totally clueless about the game, so he would lose his shit at all the disgusting and bizarre shit that is in that game. And his friends took utter delight in experiencing his virgin responses.
3. He went Gun Build, which was hilarious to watch, as it's apparently a "bad" build, but he turned it into a fucking ridiculous damage dealer. And watching his friends lose their shit as he took out his fucking cannon, and blast massive holes in the health bars of the various bosses, was hilarious.

Here are the vids of their series. I think KT's gun kata becomes insane around part 2, but definitely by part 3. But he's fucking hilarious throughout the whole thing.





Seriously, the series is a riot, even if you hate FROM games, and I consider myself FIRMLY in that camp.

 

[Dreiko]

I tried watching souls games but I am always too frustrated by the way people play them to fully enjoy it. Like some people just don't read the descriptions of the items they get, they don't talk to npcs, they don't search around an area before moving on, they don't try new weapons they get, it's just annoying to watch.

As for what I do enjoy, I've lately been watching this Japanese streamer play Apex among other things, and despite never having any interest in the game I end up liking watching these streams. I first came across this girl from a guilty gear event and then she was streaming it but her gimmick is that she's actually terrible at games and is trying to learn so this stream has this funny feeling of cheering on someone who is really bad at everything she plays but is actually polite and earnest about it and not arrogant so you never get annoyed by her suckage. Also it's fun helping translate what the english speakers who pop up from time to time are writing lol.

 

[happyninja42]

I tried watching souls games but I am always too frustrated by the way people play them to fully enjoy it. Like some people just don't read the descriptions of the items they get, they don't talk to npc, they don't search around an area before moving on, they don't try new weapons they get, it's just annoying to watch.

As for what I do enjoy, I've lately been watching this Japanese streamer play Apex among other things, and despite never having any interest in the game I end up liking watching these streams. I first came across this girl from a guilty gear event and then she was streaming it but her gimmick is that she's actually terrible at games and is trying to learn so this stream has this funny feeling of cheering on someone who is really bad at everything she plays but is actually polite and earnest about it and not arrogant so you never get annoyed by her suckage. Also it's fun helping translate what the english speakers who pop up from time to time are writing lol.

I recall seeing a clip from Apex, of a very small streamer guy, I think like maybe 100 viewers if that, who was part of a team with a MUCH more popular female streamer. Someone spliced together their two streams into a clip, and it was pretty cool. He ended up with apparently a REALLY good chest piece of armor, for the class she was playing, so he tossed it to her, you know, for team effectiveness. The video indicated this is pretty standard practice, as the gear is often very tailored for one class vs another, so sharing gear better used by someone else is just smart strategy to give your team the best chance.

anyway, he tosses her this purple piece of badassery, and but he doesn't know who she is. His thought process, that he states while doing his stream was "oh, here this person can use this." *tosses it at her feet, moves on with more looting* Meanwhile, on her stream, she's quite touched by the offer of the really awesome piece of gear, and her subs find out the other guy is also streaming, and so they go sub bomb his stream in thanks. The video cuts over to him, suddenly freaking out about why so many people are popping into his stream, and donating and all that. He had zero clue, and suddenly sees his viewer count increase by a significantly silly amount. He then hears from some people that she is a streamer, and kind of freaks out at how many people she has. He thanks everyone, and just tries to play it cool and keep playing, and just have a fun session.

It was pretty cool seeing his reaction to the friendship horde.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

The "strategy" is basically the resource collection/management and knowing which units to have and where to send them at which times; clicking even 384 times a second can't compensate for not knowing what you're doing. I've always likened it to the video of this kid juggling and solving Rubik's Cubes: immensely impressive feat, but why the hell would you???


Either way, RTSs always leads to confusing, cluster-fuckery in the end, and it amazes me that anyone can competently manage it all and for FUN nonetheless.

I’ve tried playing C&C a few times but was always stopped by the fact that nearly the entire keyboard and mouse are hot keys for some vital function to successfully play them.

 

[Dreiko]

I recall seeing a clip from Apex, of a very small streamer guy, I think like maybe 100 viewers if that, who was part of a team with a MUCH more popular female streamer. Someone spliced together their two streams into a clip, and it was pretty cool. He ended up with apparently a REALLY good chest piece of armor, for the class she was playing, so he tossed it to her, you know, for team effectiveness. The video indicated this is pretty standard practice, as the gear is often very tailored for one class vs another, so sharing gear better used by someone else is just smart strategy to give your team the best chance.

anyway, he tosses her this purple piece of badassery, and but he doesn't know who she is. His thought process, that he states while doing his stream was "oh, here this person can use this." *tosses it at her feet, moves on with more looting* Meanwhile, on her stream, she's quite touched by the offer of the really awesome piece of gear, and her subs find out the other guy is also streaming, and so they go sub bomb his stream in thanks. The video cuts over to him, suddenly freaking out about why so many people are popping into his stream, and donating and all that. He had zero clue, and suddenly sees his viewer count increase by a significantly silly amount. He then hears from some people that she is a streamer, and kind of freaks out at how many people she has. He thanks everyone, and just tries to play it cool and keep playing, and just have a fun session.

It was pretty cool seeing his reaction to the friendship horde.

Yeah so the game is team based and you need all 3 members to do well so things like sharing gear and healing items is commonplace. Also you notify your team of stuff you need like a certain type of ammo or a scope for a particular class of weapon and if they find it they can notify you and it'll appear as a icon on your screen. The purple armor is also pretty high level, it gives up an extra pip of armor and it's the third highest type of armor but depending how early on in the game you are it can be super OP.

But yeah the one I was watching did a 10 hour stream with minimal breaks last time on Apex, can't help cheering on such devotion lol.

 

[Dalisclock]

4X style games, like Stellaris, Crusader Kings 3, Total War, etc. I keep watching videos of people playing them, and enjoy it on several levels, but then I try and play them, and just do not have a fun time of it. I get bored/frustrated with a lot of the micromanagement aspects of them (something that often gets edited out in YT videos), the way the AI will often focus down on the player, even if it doesn't make much sense when they have other threats going on. I just get tired of them very quickly, and regret buying them, and they get uninstalled very quickly.

TW is a bit less Micromanagement then the other two(Paradox games are fucking Notorius for shit like that) but while I do like Paradox games to some extent, they do have a hefty learning curve and CK2 is a game I want to love so much but have yet to reach the fun part of the game where I know WTF I'm actually doing. Stellaris I found a bit less difficult in that regard, but it has it's own issues(where the game swings sharply from "OMG, I'm getting beat from every side" to "The AI is walking right into my traps every time and the question is only how big the curb stomp is going to be" after a certain point.)

 

[BrawlMan]

Danganronpa. I love watching people playing and see other players reaction. I am not in to visual novels, so that is why I don't play them.

 

[Bedinsis]

This takes me back to when I got my hands on an Age of Empires 2 CD and used to play it, but since I never bothered learning the intricate rock-papers-scissors system or any tactics I would go to the scenario editor, randomize a map with 8 players, remove the player's i.e. my base and replace it with one lone villager in the corner of the map surrounded by impassable terrain. Then I would start the game, use the show-the-map and the remove-the-fog-of-war cheats and watch the AI go at each other.

 

[Agema]

Stellaris I found a bit less difficult in that regard, but it has it's own issues(where the game swings sharply from "OMG, I'm getting beat from every side" to "The AI is walking right into my traps every time and the question is only how big the curb stomp is going to be" after a certain point.)

I often don't finish 4X games, precisely because you inevitably tend to hit a point where it's just a mopping-up operation, and if it's a long and tedious mopping up operation (Stellaris) going through the motions, it's not worth the bother. You've won and you know it, the game just hasn't realised yet.