Games where characters make dreadful tactical choices.

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HT_Black

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Irridium said:
Mass Effect 2. Jack's recruitment mission.

The Warden stops you from walking into a cell to tell you he's going to capture you. If he didn't say anything, you would have walked right in there thinking it was an elevator, and he would have gotten you.

He sabotaged his own damn plan.

Freaking moron.

Some more from Mass Effect 2:

TIM not telling you the inactive collector ship is a trap, because he doesn't want you messing up the Collector's trap. He was willing to risk the collectors capturing humanities "last hope" against the Reapers. Fucking idiot.

You destroying the Reaper in orbit around the one Brown Dwarf, and not, oh I don't know, USING IT AS EVIDENCE TO PROVE THE EXISTENCE OF THE REAPERS!

That Star System(where the relay is, I think its Hawking Ete or something) is in Citadel space, since you went there in the first game. This means you can bring Citadel ships there. Which means you can bring people there to prove all this reaper stuff to them. Which would give the council reason to help you, and bolster their forces for the Reaper threat.

Cerberus also dropped the ball there. All the researchers going insane could have been stopped buy just doing routine checkups on them. If TIM did that, he would see that they were going crazy, and could rotate them out with other researchers. This could also be a place to study indoctrination. And don't get me started on studying all that reaper tech.

I know sometimes people have to act stupid for the plot and all, but come on Bioware. Your better then this.

EDIT: Also, placing Legion in the AI core. Really? Your really going to put a Geth in the AI core? In what way does this make any sense?
Somebody has been watching Spoiler Warning.

But the worst decision I've seen in a recent game is adressed within the script itself. In New Vegas, the NCR defense is just a really big line which makes no use of the cover and vantage points afforded by a nearby ridge. Everyone knows that the general is an idiot, but he's too hard-headed to revise his plans.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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HT_Black said:
Irridium said:
Mass Effect 2. Jack's recruitment mission.

The Warden stops you from walking into a cell to tell you he's going to capture you. If he didn't say anything, you would have walked right in there thinking it was an elevator, and he would have gotten you.

He sabotaged his own damn plan.

Freaking moron.

Some more from Mass Effect 2:

TIM not telling you the inactive collector ship is a trap, because he doesn't want you messing up the Collector's trap. He was willing to risk the collectors capturing humanities "last hope" against the Reapers. Fucking idiot.

You destroying the Reaper in orbit around the one Brown Dwarf, and not, oh I don't know, USING IT AS EVIDENCE TO PROVE THE EXISTENCE OF THE REAPERS!

That Star System(where the relay is, I think its Hawking Ete or something) is in Citadel space, since you went there in the first game. This means you can bring Citadel ships there. Which means you can bring people there to prove all this reaper stuff to them. Which would give the council reason to help you, and bolster their forces for the Reaper threat.

Cerberus also dropped the ball there. All the researchers going insane could have been stopped buy just doing routine checkups on them. If TIM did that, he would see that they were going crazy, and could rotate them out with other researchers. This could also be a place to study indoctrination. And don't get me started on studying all that reaper tech.

I know sometimes people have to act stupid for the plot and all, but come on Bioware. Your better then this.

EDIT: Also, placing Legion in the AI core. Really? Your really going to put a Geth in the AI core? In what way does this make any sense?
Somebody has been watching Spoiler Warning.

But the worst decision I've seen in a recent game is adressed within the script itself. In New Vegas, the NCR defense is just a really big line which makes no use of the cover and vantage points afforded by a nearby ridge. Everyone knows that the general is an idiot, but he's too hard-headed to revise his plans.
LIES!

Ok not lies, but I've had issues with those for a while. Especially the Warden one on Jacks recruitment mission. He didn't have to say anything. HE WOULD HAVE GOTTEN US! But no, he screws up his own plan.

And the Reaper one. Its the find of the century. Finally proof we could use to shut that fucking Turian councilor up. And we destroy it.
 

4nthr4x

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Resident Evil 4:
When Leon decides to go through the castle to lose those pesky peasants following him ^^
 

DeathWyrmNexus

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MaxPowers666 said:
Death_Korps_Kommissar said:
Just wanted to start this thread to see how many games were npc's have used dreadful tactics.
I'm gonna go with dragon age, the first battle with the Darkspawn with King Cailan in charge.
Man it was awful:
Failing to take use of a higher ground advantage, underestimating your enemy, wasting hounds on a ineffective attack, charging a prepared, more numerous enemy from a strong position. Poorly equipped soldiers and a ridiculously stupid signaling system.
I could have done a shit ton better in the same situation.
So anyone else?
That was pretty bad. Dont forget they only fired one volley of arrows before sending in the hounds and then charging.

That is all entirely irrelevent in comparision to what Logain did. To anybody at all his betrayel would have made absolutely no sense at all. You sacrifice half a bloody army when the kingdom is under attack by a force which already has superior numbers. Killing off the king, outlawing grey wardens, starting a civil war, all of this while they were under attack by the darkspawn. You cant even say that he underestimated the darkspawns power because he saw the size of the army at ostagar.

I notice it in nearly every game though. Both sides always make these rediculous tactical errors or dont even think of the most obvious solution available.
I always scratched my head and asked where the mage volley was. There was such a big stink about the mages saving their spells for the darkspawn and I don't recall a single damn fireball, Inferno, tempest, Blizzard, or Earthquake. I just saw typical catapult barrages.

They could have at least used Grease first and then lobbed some fire in. Hell, there could have been an entire barrage of withering artillery and spells before they ever loosed the hounds. I would have kept the hounds with the soldiers for added foot soldier support.

Loghain could have won the day, despite Cailan's tactical errors, by simply doing what he was told.

All said, that front line should have been a hell on Earth for the darkspawn to march though before they even touched the infantry. I kept wanting to yell at Cailan. "USE THE MAGE NUKES DUDE!!!"
 

Souplex

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Jul 29, 2008
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Mass Effect 2: Recruiting Jack. You should have left her to die.
Not using the derelict Reaper as evidence.
Not having an option at the endgame to turn over the Reaper IFF to the council so they could study its technology as opposed to destroying it or turning it over to The Illusive Man.
 

Nylis

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Irridium said:
HT_Black said:
Irridium said:
Mass Effect 2. Jack's recruitment mission.

The Warden stops you from walking into a cell to tell you he's going to capture you. If he didn't say anything, you would have walked right in there thinking it was an elevator, and he would have gotten you.

He sabotaged his own damn plan.

Freaking moron.

Some more from Mass Effect 2:

TIM not telling you the inactive collector ship is a trap, because he doesn't want you messing up the Collector's trap. He was willing to risk the collectors capturing humanities "last hope" against the Reapers. Fucking idiot.

You destroying the Reaper in orbit around the one Brown Dwarf, and not, oh I don't know, USING IT AS EVIDENCE TO PROVE THE EXISTENCE OF THE REAPERS!

That Star System(where the relay is, I think its Hawking Ete or something) is in Citadel space, since you went there in the first game. This means you can bring Citadel ships there. Which means you can bring people there to prove all this reaper stuff to them. Which would give the council reason to help you, and bolster their forces for the Reaper threat.

Cerberus also dropped the ball there. All the researchers going insane could have been stopped buy just doing routine checkups on them. If TIM did that, he would see that they were going crazy, and could rotate them out with other researchers. This could also be a place to study indoctrination. And don't get me started on studying all that reaper tech.

I know sometimes people have to act stupid for the plot and all, but come on Bioware. Your better then this.

EDIT: Also, placing Legion in the AI core. Really? Your really going to put a Geth in the AI core? In what way does this make any sense?
Somebody has been watching Spoiler Warning.

But the worst decision I've seen in a recent game is adressed within the script itself. In New Vegas, the NCR defense is just a really big line which makes no use of the cover and vantage points afforded by a nearby ridge. Everyone knows that the general is an idiot, but he's too hard-headed to revise his plans.
LIES!

Ok not lies, but I've had issues with those for a while. Especially the Warden one on Jacks recruitment mission. He didn't have to say anything. HE WOULD HAVE GOTTEN US! But no, he screws up his own plan.

And the Reaper one. Its the find of the century. Finally proof we could use to shut that fucking Turian councilor up. And we destroy it.
Yeah the turian on the Purgatory messed up, but they had good reason for destroying that reaper. When Shepard got on the reaper, something caused the reaper's kinetic barriers to activate, making it impossible for the Normandy to get Shepard off of the reaper. And remember, the whole reason they were there was to get the reaper IFF so they could get past the Omega 4 Relay. So the only way to shut down the barriers and get back to the ship, was to destroy the main power source.
 

Teh_Lemon

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Curse* you guys and your Mass Effect 2 Spoilers! (I plan to get the games when they release a special edition trilogy pack or something)

Also, all of the other ones are really interesting, but this one I never got:

Bowser. He never captures Mario, Luigi, and Peach all at once. He's captured the princess a thousand times, Mario at least twice, and those three are the only ones who's ever stopped him (besides maybe in Super Paper Mario or something). (IS THE CONSTRUCTION OF INSANE LABRYNTHS AND AMASSING A GIANT ENDLESS ARMY OF MUTANT TURTLES REALLY THAT MUCH EASIER THAN DRAWING A BLONDE AND 2 PLUMBERS INTO A TRAP...?)

Oh, and every time some Great Evil is sealed away for 'all eternity'. Haven't they ever heard the Legends of Zelda? Sheesh.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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Nylis said:
Yeah the turian on the Purgatory messed up, but they had good reason for destroying that reaper. When Shepard got on the reaper, something caused the reaper's kinetic barriers to activate, making it impossible for the Normandy to get Shepard off of the reaper. And remember, the whole reason they were there was to get the reaper IFF so they could get past the Omega 4 Relay. So the only way to shut down the barriers and get back to the ship, was to destroy the main power source.
TIM told you the Reaper was there. You could have flown in, saw it, capture video evidence(after all, if some voice files from a random Quarian are enough evidence to get them to discharge their greatest agent, without bringing him into the conversation to defend himself, then I think video evidence from their second greatest would be fine. If anything Anderson will believe the hell out of you and help), fly away, then come back with lots of Council dudes.
 

Blubberburg

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Soo many of these can be based around the player character appears to be an invinsible god (because game loads cut out you dying and whatnot) and your only vulnerable during cutscenes.
But there was this one part in Dragon age when your breaking someone out of a prison and get attacked by like 20+ archers amungst other things and they just decemated me but then i got arrested instead of killed, but makes me think shouldnt all the bad guys go around in huge partys instead of just small groups that can be easyly picked off one by one by your casual party of four?

Also your dog in fable 2, this is a bit of a spoiler for those who havent heard of this game before. but at the end when your dog dives in front of a bullet to save you, you survived from the same bullet as a little kid while also falling miles. surely your superpowers adult self with armor and everything could have just stopped time or whatever and dealt with him but no the dog kills himself and causes me to have billions of people remain dead so i can revive just my dog with this wish.
 

Gizmo1990

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Batman Arkham Asylum. Every time you are in a room, hanging from a gargoyal and the fool's with guns are talking to each other saying things like 'when the batman shows him self I am going to kill him cuz nobody has tryed shooting at him with a gun before'. Seriously do these guys never learn. IT'S FUCKING BATMAN!! He has been beating the crap out of nameless goons for years why have the not got the hint. You do not go up against batman and win.
 

WayOutThere

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I've been playing Killzone 2. At one point the squad is in a large room with windows when an air unit started firing in on them. "Well" I thought, "that isn't so bad. None of you got hit on the first run and now all of you have time to run to a lower floor and get as far from windows as possible." Instead of doing that, one of them yelled "We're sitting ducks! We've got to get to the roof!" To which my response was YOU'RE AN IDIOT.

What followed was a fairly good boss fight though.
 

Ultress

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Don't know if it counts as a tactical decision but not letting Heat eat Bat in DDS 1,it would have saved everyone a fuckton of trouble down the road.
 

Chimpzy_v1legacy

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Gears of War. Turning Sera's surface to ash with the exception of Jacinto Plateau.

Great plan. Effectively making your planet uninhabitable and concentrating all your remaining people and resources into a single spot.
 

Booze Zombie

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In Mass Effect 1, there's a scene where an Asari (disposable minion) and some geth walk in on you making a cure to a bio-weapon and she does a little monologue about how she's going to kill you, etc.

The entire time, your teammates stand there like "duuuuuuuuuh", which is why I love the very smart renegade response: "She's pointing a gun at us and she's surrounded by geth... SHOOT HER!"
 

King Kupofried

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Your allies in Persona 3 during gameplay.
"You encounter a Giant Flaming Wheel Lion.*
"Junpei attempts to use Fire Magic on the Giant Flaming Wheel Lion."
"Fuuka and/or Junpei express their shock that Fire heals it."

Good job team.
 

ecoho

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Irridium said:
Nylis said:
Yeah the turian on the Purgatory messed up, but they had good reason for destroying that reaper. When Shepard got on the reaper, something caused the reaper's kinetic barriers to activate, making it impossible for the Normandy to get Shepard off of the reaper. And remember, the whole reason they were there was to get the reaper IFF so they could get past the Omega 4 Relay. So the only way to shut down the barriers and get back to the ship, was to destroy the main power source.
TIM told you the Reaper was there. You could have flown in, saw it, capture video evidence(after all, if some voice files from a random Quarian are enough evidence to get them to discharge their greatest agent, without bringing him into the conversation to defend himself, then I think video evidence from their second greatest would be fine. If anything Anderson will believe the hell out of you and help), fly away, then come back with lots of Council dudes.
yes lets take a video of the reaper and bring back a bunch of council dudes who will then stop you from takeing the iff and then try to study it therefore getting brain washed. yes they should have taken video of it but leaveing the thing standing would be a no no. While were on the subject why the hell would you not wait to install the iff till your at the citidal? you know were theres a large fleet that could keep your ship safe while your doing this.
 

JoshGod

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I have not played it but i understand isaac makes some poor choices (dead space 2).
 
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ecoho said:
Irridium said:
Nylis said:
Yeah the turian on the Purgatory messed up, but they had good reason for destroying that reaper. When Shepard got on the reaper, something caused the reaper's kinetic barriers to activate, making it impossible for the Normandy to get Shepard off of the reaper. And remember, the whole reason they were there was to get the reaper IFF so they could get past the Omega 4 Relay. So the only way to shut down the barriers and get back to the ship, was to destroy the main power source.
TIM told you the Reaper was there. You could have flown in, saw it, capture video evidence(after all, if some voice files from a random Quarian are enough evidence to get them to discharge their greatest agent, without bringing him into the conversation to defend himself, then I think video evidence from their second greatest would be fine. If anything Anderson will believe the hell out of you and help), fly away, then come back with lots of Council dudes.
yes lets take a video of the reaper and bring back a bunch of council dudes who will then stop you from takeing the iff and then try to study it therefore getting brain washed. yes they should have taken video of it but leaveing the thing standing would be a no no. While were on the subject why the hell would you not wait to install the iff till your at the citidal? you know were theres a large fleet that could keep your ship safe while your doing this.
I was actually at the Citadel when the Collectors attacked. Found that rather funny...

Also, we would bring them to the Reaper, we would figure out about Cerberus/indoctrinating and all that, then figure out we can't leave, and have to destroy it. Yes its the same result and outcome, but its a much better way of doing it. And we have the added bonus of now proving the Reapers exist.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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DeathWyrmNexus said:
I always scratched my head and asked where the mage volley was. There was such a big stink about the mages saving their spells for the darkspawn and I don't recall a single damn fireball, Inferno, tempest, Blizzard, or Earthquake. I just saw typical catapult barrages.
. I can agree with this in it's entirety. The mages could have done any number of things to turn the tide with devastating AOE attacks and the like but they appear to do absolutely squat in the course of the battle.

DeathWyrmNexus said:
Loghain could have won the day, despite Cailan's tactical errors, by simply doing what he was told.
Actually, he almost certainly could not.

The strategy being employed is a variation of a pincer movement. Such a strategy relies on a number of facts:
1) Any arrangement of troops where offensive/defensive power is directed along the same axis is stronger than when offensive and defensive power are split into different axis.
2) A force, once committed to a close fight, cannot withdraw from the engagement without significant casualties.
3) A force committed to a close fight, when attacked on a flank, is forced to split its axis of attack and defense.

The strategy thus relies on two distinct components: the fixing force (or the anvil if you prefer) and the attacking force (or the hammer). For this stratagem to be successful, an enemy must be lured into attacking the fixing force and committing to the action (i.e. the battle is joined with main troops and support rather than just skirmishing troops. Skirmishing troops exist primarily to gauge the preparation of a defender and slow any attack on a flank long enough for the main element to respond). The fixing force must then manage to hold the enemy in close combat.

Once the critical moment is reached (the enemy is committed to their attack on the fixing force), the second element comes into play and the enemy is attacked on an additional side. Fully enveloping an army is a dangerous maneuver because, once all hope of retreat is cut off a force will fight far more desperately (thus dramatically increasing casualties on the side accomplishing the envelopment) thus unless the force attempting the envelopment has dramatically superior numbers it is generally considered prudent to allow the enemy a means of escape. Since the enemy can retreat, if his ranks are broken they will take enormous casualties trying to disengage on two fronts.

So, that begs the question "Just why wouldn't it have worked"? The strategy was, at the outset, sound. The fixing force had an advantageous position and the enemy quickly committed to the attack. The plan fell apart for a single reason: the command and control of the King's army was disrupted. This illustrates the key problem: the King's Army had but a single means of relaying the message. A better option would to be to have multiple methods of communicating this information to Loghain's force. Because of the disruption, by the time the message had been received by Loghain, the fixing force had been "destroyed" (a military term that means the force was no longer capable of fighting at a given level of strength. A division that has been destroyed may only be able to fight at the effective level of a Brigade where a company that has been destroyed may only be able to maneuver effectively as a platoon). Thus, had the enveloping force committed themselves to an attack, the likely result would be that the majority of the strength of the darkspawn force could turn to face the attack along a wide front (where their superior numbers would prove an enormous advantage) while the fixing force would no longer be able to sufficiently contest this turn. The probable result would be the annihilation of both the enveloping force and the fixing force.

Loghain, as a result, made the sound strategic maneuver. He conceded the field but maintained a significant portion of his army. Even his future maneuverings (which many would question) were strategically given that he had no reason to know (or believe) that the Grey Wardens were actually necessary to win the war. The Wardens were outcast for a number of reasons including convincing the King to make various decisions in spite of his advice to do otherwise, the fact that they requested aid for Orlaisian Wardens (Whom Loghain had plenty of reason to distrust) and the fact that Wardens had, historically, exhibited a propensity for high treason (thus why the had only recently been allowed to return to Ferelden). In trying to murder the Arl of Redcliffe, he sought to end any intra-kingdom fighting before it began by taking out the ring leader of the most powerful faction. This would allow him to muster a stronger force to face the Darkspawn.