GameStop Wants to Sell Used Digital Games

[Epona]

This will only work it Europe. Until the American legal system says that it is ok and allowed to sell your digital copies of games it will never happen. Hopefully GameStop spends all their money on this and they go bankrupt.

What kind of anti-consumer BS are you spewing? It isn't illegal to sell used digital games here in the US. Your statement is wrong.

Until the US legal system rules it illegal to resale digital games, it's legal. Just as it's legal for you type anti-consumer BS because there is no ruling against it.

For some unkown reason, the USA allows EULA to override basic consumer rights, which is what the UE ruling prevents them from doing. Basically, in the UE, the EULA is non-binding, because once money exchanged hands, it's a sale, and you can't force a contract on the buyer afterwards (which is what the EULA does, and therefore lacks validity under UE laws). The USA allows this override, however. Unless I'm misinformed.

You are misinformed. Each EULA is different and there is no law that allows every EULA to be legally binding.

The only thing stopping people from reselling digital games is the DRM, not the law. If Gamestop can find a way around the DRM then maybe they can pull this off. After all, there is the First Sale Doctrine.

 

[Falterfire]

But original licenses were available earlier. That's the difference. That they're both available after a point does not cancel the fact that one was available earlier.

Uh. No. That's not a difference. That's like saying that an iPhone made today should cost less than one than was made last week because the one made last week has been around longer. If you have two identical products being sold at exactly the same time, logically they should cost the same amount of money. Have you ever been to a store where the shirts were sorted by how recently they were made with the most recent ones being the cheapest?

If you could swap the labels on them and nobody would be able to tell the difference, it's the same product. With used digital products you could literally switch the 'used' and 'new' licenses around and the customer would be completely unable to tell the difference.

If the same store offers the same product at two different prices, only one of those prices points is ever going to be used. And unlike physical copies, there's no risk of breakage or damage, so if the used copy is cheaper by even 1¢, it's a better deal.

So the end result is that if this goes through, Gamestop can potentially sell new digital copies for say $19.99 and used copies for $19.98 and every single possible used copy would still sell first. (assuming customers are not retarded) Given that they make a percentage of the profit on the $19.99 purchase, and ALL the profit on the $19.98 purchase, I think there's something wrong.

 

[MetallicaRulez0]

What?

But...how would you...what would make it...why would you...what would be the point of...

What?!

Seriously.

How would this even work? I buy a digital game and then... you buy it off of me when I get tired of it? But... how? Why? What's the difference between a regular digital game and a "used" digital game? I don't understand!

Someone with lower IQ than me please explain this to me. My intelligence is holding me back this time.

You get the product another person owned before. It's that simple.

I'm aware of what "used" means, but why in the hell does anyone need this? A digital copy is a digital copy, why would one be less expensive? It costs exactly the same for GameStop, unless I'm simply not understanding this right.

 

[viranimus]

This is a joke, right?

Ok... you do understand that you can produce the platform for used digital games, but you cannot really be entitled for facilitating that the same as a physical space, right? Because there is no such thing as a used digital copy... its just another digital copy. So how do you propose to offer distinction at the lower price for a used digital copy when there is no distinction? If you sell it for the same price, it doesnt matter if you call it new or used. If you sell it for a lower cost given there is no actual item, just endlessly new generated copies how do you get out of submitting the proper levels of payment to the copywrite holders?

There is no deterioration. So the only thing you can viably do is somewhat like what Steam already does with game inventory and allowing games to be traded as items between individuals and simply be the facilitator of license transfers. But you cannot turn it into a business model because there is no legitimate way you can claim all the profit for selling a "used" copy when its really just another copy.

Normally I am very anti steam and I have defended game stop many times over. But as the headline reads, Gamestop wants to sell used digital games. When in actuality in this case, Gamestop wants to keep the profit generated from the sale of digital games and only pay the publishers an arbitrary amount of times for each item sold.

Well I guess that makes sense. It would basically be legalized piracy, and if Steam can make a business model out of it, It stands to reason gamestop would want to too.

 

[Falterfire]

The difference is that Steam sends a hefty percentage (70%?) to the publishers. Game Stop used games don't.

I was joking with a friend during the Steam sale that they must have extra hard drives full of Saints Row: The Third in boxes since it kept going on sale. I didn't think anybody would actually try to treat digital games as though they worked like that.

 

[Irridium]

What?

But...how would you...what would make it...why would you...what would be the point of...

What?!

Seriously.

How would this even work? I buy a digital game and then... you buy it off of me when I get tired of it? But... how? Why? What's the difference between a regular digital game and a "used" digital game? I don't understand!

Someone with lower IQ than me please explain this to me. My intelligence is holding me back this time.

You get the product another person owned before. It's that simple.

I'm aware of what "used" means, but why in the hell does anyone need this? A digital copy is a digital copy, why would one be less expensive? It costs exactly the same for GameStop, unless I'm simply not understanding this right.

They'll probably just have a set of games be discounted, call them "used", and do it that way. With a set amount of digital units they can sell based on how many have been traded in.

Basically, it seems to just be a way to sell to more people. You can sell the games full-price to people who buy full price, and you can sell not full-price to people who don't/can't afford it/are cheap bastards.

That's how I'd do it at least, if I was this crazy.

 

[The Hungry Samurai]

I bet within 20 min of this service launching someone figures out how to dupe the system and sell 2000 copies of the same game. Serves GameStop right.

 

[Meight08]

What?

But...how would you...what would make it...why would you...what would be the point of...

What?!

Seriously.

How would this even work? I buy a digital game and then... you buy it off of me when I get tired of it? But... how? Why? What's the difference between a regular digital game and a "used" digital game? I don't understand!

Someone with lower IQ than me please explain this to me. My intelligence is holding me back this time.

You get the product another person owned before. It's that simple.

I'm aware of what "used" means, but why in the hell does anyone need this? A digital copy is a digital copy, why would one be less expensive? It costs exactly the same for GameStop, unless I'm simply not understanding this right.

They'll probably just have a set of games be discounted, call them "used", and do it that way. With a set amount of digital units they can sell based on how many have been traded in.

Basically, it seems to just be a way to sell to more people. You can sell the games full-price to people who buy full price, and you can sell not full-price to people who don't/can't afford it/are cheap bastards.

That's how I'd do it at least, if I was this crazy.

But that means no more steam sales since steam sales are supposed to compemsate for a lack of used sales.

 

[gigastar]

Thats brave of them.

If they manage to create this system, the publishers are going to be wanting royalties if Gamestop wants it to work. Assuming they even want in when the likes of Steam and D2D is much better than anything Gamestop has in every respect.

And because such a system would only grant users store credit, it would likely turn into a money sink for Gamestop. Users use store credit to buy new games, not money, every time a copy sells, publishers might have to be paid off.

And im simply not clued up to the legal aspects of such a system. I assume there would be some obstacles there.

 

[Irridium]

What?

But...how would you...what would make it...why would you...what would be the point of...

What?!

Seriously.

How would this even work? I buy a digital game and then... you buy it off of me when I get tired of it? But... how? Why? What's the difference between a regular digital game and a "used" digital game? I don't understand!

Someone with lower IQ than me please explain this to me. My intelligence is holding me back this time.

You get the product another person owned before. It's that simple.

I'm aware of what "used" means, but why in the hell does anyone need this? A digital copy is a digital copy, why would one be less expensive? It costs exactly the same for GameStop, unless I'm simply not understanding this right.

They'll probably just have a set of games be discounted, call them "used", and do it that way. With a set amount of digital units they can sell based on how many have been traded in.

Basically, it seems to just be a way to sell to more people. You can sell the games full-price to people who buy full price, and you can sell not full-price to people who don't/can't afford it/are cheap bastards.

That's how I'd do it at least, if I was this crazy.

But that means no more steam sales since steam sales are supposed to compemsate for a lack of used sales.

I really doubt Gamestop will sell games for $5 and under, like Steam does. With Gamestop, used games are only $5 cheaper.

Steam sales will still exist, since they charge far, far less than that.

 

[Ukomba]

Why would a Digital Distribution system need Game Stop for this?

 

[Sneezeguard]

The weird thing about 2nd-hand digital copies is that, well... what sets them apart from 1st-hand digital copies?

Viruses lots and lots of viruses...

No, in all seriousness the only way I can see this working is with a code like system. You sell game codes attached to your account and you can't use play that game any more.

And you know what, this will work. As long as someone is offering a legal cheaper way of buying something someone will buy it.

 

[Falterfire]

There are still only three ways this can go:
Either...
A: Gamestop doesn't give publishers a percentage on used sales (As they currently don't) and enough used games are in circulation to ensure that after a month or the number of new copies purchased drop drastically. Any game more than a year old basically becomes a source of zero profit for the game dev because digital copies are never lost, damaged, or stolen and take up zero 'shelf space' because a website has an amount of 'shelf space' that's practically limitless. Since we're transferring digital licenses anyways, that effectively means DLC is equally resaleable.

B: Same as A, but not enough used games make it into circulation. In this case, it's just a flash sale for whoever happens to be lucky enough to nab one of the few copies while they're available.

C: Game Stop is forced to give publishers a cut of the used digital sales. In this case, there is no profit for them in selling used digital games because then they become identical to new games from both the consumer's point of view and the seller's point of view.

Since they're partnering with Valve here, situation A also has the side effect of massively hurting Steam, because no dev in their right mind would offer a game to Steam given that a title like Bastion that is amazingly fun but without much replay value will be available in sufficient supply after the end of week one, and if they decided to go to another digital platform instead many would follow.

 

[Epona]

The difference is that Steam sends a hefty percentage (70%?) to the publishers. Game Stop used games don't.

I was joking with a friend during the Steam sale that they must have extra hard drives full of Saints Row: The Third in boxes since it kept going on sale. I didn't think anybody would actually try to treat digital games as though they worked like that.

Comparing Steam to Gamestop used is stupid. Gamestop sells NEW digital games right now and I'll bet they also send 70% to the publishers.

Now, if Steam were selling used games, then you could compare it to Gamestop's used games.


Look folks, everyone seems to be scratching their head about how this could work. The simplest method would be that you buy a digital game new from Gamestop and then sell it back to them. There would be a finite number of used copies available because the product key would be transferred from you to Gamestop to the new customer. Once there are no more used product keys, there are no more used copies.

 

[Falterfire]

Comparing Steam to Gamestop used is stupid. Gamestop sells NEW digital games right now and I'll bet they also send 70% to the publishers.

Now, if Steam were selling used games, then you could compare it to Gamestop's used games.


Look folks, everyone seems to be scratching their head about how this could work. The simplest method would be that you buy a digital game new from Gamestop and then sell it back to them. There would be a finite number of used copies available because the product key would be transferred from you to Gamestop to the new customer. Once there are no more used product keys, there are no more used copies.

Well yes, they do send a percentage to the developers right now. They do that because it's a new copy. If it's a used copy, they don't have to, and that's the problem.

Selling used games in person tends to be more trouble than it's worth for the minimal quantity of money received, but if I could just press a button in my Steam library that refunded money to my Steam wallet then suddenly I can sell off Trine, Braid, Bastion, and all the other titles I've already beaten. Many others will do the same.

Although initially there will indeed be a lot of new sales, after a certain point (Likely within a month or two judging by physical used sales) there will be more copies sold back than new copies purchased. at that point the game developer will stop receiving any money for that game for the rest of forever unless there's some bizarre spike in demand for an unforeseen reason. (See: Arma 2 and DayZ for the only example in recent memory)

 

[Epona]

Comparing Steam to Gamestop used is stupid. Gamestop sells NEW digital games right now and I'll bet they also send 70% to the publishers.

Now, if Steam were selling used games, then you could compare it to Gamestop's used games.


Look folks, everyone seems to be scratching their head about how this could work. The simplest method would be that you buy a digital game new from Gamestop and then sell it back to them. There would be a finite number of used copies available because the product key would be transferred from you to Gamestop to the new customer. Once there are no more used product keys, there are no more used copies.

Well yes, they do send a percentage to the developers right now. They do that because it's a new copy. If it's a used copy, they don't have to, and that's the problem.

Selling used games in person tends to be more trouble than it's worth for the minimal quantity of money received, but if I could just press a button in my Steam library that refunded money to my Steam wallet then suddenly I can sell off Trine, Braid, Bastion, and all the other titles I've already beaten. Many others will do the same.

Although initially there will indeed be a lot of new sales, after a certain point (Likely within a month or two judging by physical used sales) there will be more copies sold back than new copies purchased. at that point the game developer will stop receiving any money for that game for the rest of forever unless there's some bizarre spike in demand for an unforeseen reason. (See: Arma 2 and DayZ for the only example in recent memory)

So your objection is that "it's too easy" to sell back digital games? That's not much of an objection.

Oh and it's not a problem that they don't pay the publishers for used copies, that's how used sales work.

 

[GonzoGamer]

Just keep thinking-up ways to screw-over those poor hardworking publishers, don't you GameStop?

Fuck the publishers.
Gamestop just found a whole new exclusive consumer market they can gouge into irrelevance.

 

[Snotnarok]

Sounds like this would require DRM, the game would have to contact gamestop and ask if the player has persmission to play it.

And that's not gonna help them be competitive if the solution is DRM.

 

[Falterfire]

So your objection is that "it's too easy" to sell back digital games? That's not much of an objection.

Oh and it's not a problem that they don't pay the publishers for used copies, that's how used sales work.

No, my objection is that combination of ease of resale combined with the ability of Steam/Game Stop to store as many copies of every game as necessary means that after a certain point, there will be enough used copies in circulation that if desired every person can buy a used copy instead of a new one. Since there is no difference between the two, every person will buy a used copy instead of a new one.

Since these used copies don't give the developer sales money, that means that they completely stop making money on their game once this point is reached. I don't think it's fair to game developers to only allow them to make money on their game for a month or two before they stop getting a cut of any of it.

For people arguing we won't see any negative effects: Yes. We will, and to a minor degree we're already seeing what happens when the big guys think they're being threatened. They believe that used games are a problem, so things like online passes are created to ensure that used sales don't do as well. But what happens when the online passes can ALSO be sold used? That is not a question I want to see EA, Ubisoft, or anybody else answer.