Gaming Advocacy Group Reports Black Ops to UK Government

SenseOfTumour

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So I'm the only one who assumed this was some group of ignorant parents going 'wah wah a game has guns in it and turned my child into a violent thug despite him being 7 and the game having a fat 18 rating on the front'?

I'm kinda in 2 minds here, I think to an extent, the PC will always have the need to be followed up with patches , because of the millions of varying setups out there. However, that does NOT mean they should skimp on beta testing and iron out huge game breaking bugs affecting lots of people (See both recent Fallouts - tho I've played both and only experienced minor stuff, I'm willing to believe the reports by due of their numbers.)

However, when you're creating content for a console, if it works on one, it'll work on 10 million of them, so get it right, there's zero excuse for slapping together shoddy code because your boss is too much of an idiot to realise his deadlines are fuckwitted.

Sadly, the reason Activision act like they do, and are so hated by gamers, yet don't change, is because millions of us keep throwing our $60 at them every time they add some new cutscenes and redesign the maps to MW1 and give it a new name.

Stop throwing money at them and they'll need to work out what they have to change to get the cash coming their way again.

I also consider the non returnable status of console games to be a shitty get out clause also.
Of course we can't let people just return games because they don't like them, because people would just finish great but short games then claim a full refund.

However, there should be something in place, that if a game gets enough complaints that it just plain fails to work as intended, a group like the above people can get together and demand a refund is offered to all customers. If it hurts Activision, sorry, but make it work next time.
 

SenseOfTumour

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I'd also suggest that Fallout got away with it, because unless you had truly game breaking bugs, the game was enjoyable enough to overlook them.

I think a fair number of people were disappointed with Black Ops and the bugs compounded that feeling.
 

Azaraxzealot

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Easton Dark said:
Azaraxzealot said:
Easton Dark said:
Wait, so the Wii version is bug-free? MIGRATION, GO GO GO!

Azaraxzealot said:
well then too bad. you knew the risks of getting into PC gaming, just have to go with it until Activision or the community fixes it then. sorry :/ *shrugs*
Buggy games are not a risk of PC gaming...... They shouldn't be a risk of ANY GAMING.

I'm getting tired of the model of releasing 5 patches the month after release. Why is it that people that pay MORE for a game when it comes out get a less enjoyable experience (in most cases)?
how many people complain about buggy/broken/not very well ported PC games? think about that for a moment...
now how many people complain about buggy/broken/not very well ported console games?

see the difference? thank you.
I'll need some numbahs before baseless claims get me to change my mind.
Look:
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/guitar-hero-iii-legends-of-rock/834647p1.html - Guitar Hero 3 for PC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-KrlF3MJqc - saints row 2 for PC
still not convinced? read this article that actually made it into the top articles on the escapist for the year:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_265/7935-Punching-the-Baby-Seal-of-PC-Gaming

theres a WHOLE laundry list of PC games that had console versions that just dont work on a PC because of its risky nature

the only time i see anyone complain about a console game being buggy is when its by Bethesda (but on PC their games are MUCH more buggy, just look at New Vegas) or when its by a smaller studio.

satisfied? or did you not think i had any evidence to back up my claims?
 

Unesh52

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Treblaine said:
The difference between PS3 and 360 are many many times larger than between any two modern PCs.
You may be right (I honestly wouldn't know), but they're still just two systems. The problems each version has on each of the consoles can be ironed out for that console. There are presumably thousands of different set-ups of PCs, and each, no matter how slightly so, is different. It's just harder to make sure on PC.

And yes, the PS3 version is still a mess. It kicks me all the damn time.

Easton Dark said:
You're right, you can't test everything 100%. But glaringly obvious ones please? Fallout New Vegas please? Massive, sometimes game breaking bugs across the board. No way no one caught that. And it's weird because apparently the PC version is the safest from bugs.
Weird. I heard on this same thread that the 360 version was the safest from bugs. Eh, w/e.

You're right though; Bethesda should have caught that.
 

milkkart

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Azaraxzealot said:
Easton Dark said:
Azaraxzealot said:
Easton Dark said:
Wait, so the Wii version is bug-free? MIGRATION, GO GO GO!

Azaraxzealot said:
well then too bad. you knew the risks of getting into PC gaming, just have to go with it until Activision or the community fixes it then. sorry :/ *shrugs*
Buggy games are not a risk of PC gaming...... They shouldn't be a risk of ANY GAMING.

I'm getting tired of the model of releasing 5 patches the month after release. Why is it that people that pay MORE for a game when it comes out get a less enjoyable experience (in most cases)?
how many people complain about buggy/broken/not very well ported PC games? think about that for a moment...
now how many people complain about buggy/broken/not very well ported console games?

see the difference? thank you.
I'll need some numbahs before baseless claims get me to change my mind.
Look:
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/guitar-hero-iii-legends-of-rock/834647p1.html - Guitar Hero 3 for PC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-KrlF3MJqc - saints row 2 for PC
still not convinced? read this article that actually made it into the top articles on the escapist for the year:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_265/7935-Punching-the-Baby-Seal-of-PC-Gaming

theres a WHOLE laundry list of PC games that had console versions that just dont work on a PC because of its risky nature

the only time i see anyone complain about a console game being buggy is when its by Bethesda (but on PC their games are MUCH more buggy, just look at New Vegas) or when its by a smaller studio.

satisfied? or did you not think i had any evidence to back up my claims?
ok sometimes a PC game wont work because of hardware issues but these days thats mostly confined to integrated graphics and obsolete or particularly esoteric hardware. the vast majority of bugs and problems with console to PC ports is shoddy, minimum effort conversion work.

one that springs to mind is marc echo's getting up, the worst title ever exceeded in crapiness only by its horrendous controls that combined with the finicky climbing oriented gameplay make it actually unplayable with a keyboard and mouse at points. just as a bonus kick in the nuts it was fairly unstable too. as a play point iirc they did at least bother to add manual saves, making autosave-only games really should be a crime.

then of course you get things that are just flat out bad, lazy coding and totally inadequate QA testing like fallout 3 pc where it fails on the majority of systems.

either way games companies should not be using paying customers as beta-testers regardless of the platform
 

icame

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Show them with your wallets. This court case is retarded and if they win, I lose faith in humanity.
 

milkkart

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icame said:
Show them with your wallets. This court case is retarded and if they win, I lose faith in humanity.
fanboys will buy it regardless and then defend it to the hilt because PS3/PC FO LYFE YO!!!11!!

also its not a courtcase yet and this is exactly what the office of fair trading is designed for. of course lately they mainly been a lapdog for the copyright companies to send out to bite the ankles of modchip makers and gray-importers.
 

omega_peaches

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Azaraxzealot said:
just get it on the 360 and stop complaining. jeez. its not that hard.

EDIT: though it is a crying shame that they would release "broken" versions of the game. you do realize microsoft paid good money for their advertising of the game as being playable "better" on the 360, right? well, still. companies shouldnt release broken products. BAD ACTIVISION!
Yeah, because I definitely have enough money to buy a new console that I don't even want, just to play a more stable online for Black Ops.
 

Easton Dark

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Azaraxzealot said:
Easton Dark said:
Azaraxzealot said:
Easton Dark said:
Wait, so the Wii version is bug-free? MIGRATION, GO GO GO!

Azaraxzealot said:
well then too bad. you knew the risks of getting into PC gaming, just have to go with it until Activision or the community fixes it then. sorry :/ *shrugs*
Buggy games are not a risk of PC gaming...... They shouldn't be a risk of ANY GAMING.

I'm getting tired of the model of releasing 5 patches the month after release. Why is it that people that pay MORE for a game when it comes out get a less enjoyable experience (in most cases)?
how many people complain about buggy/broken/not very well ported PC games? think about that for a moment...
now how many people complain about buggy/broken/not very well ported console games?

see the difference? thank you.
I'll need some numbahs before baseless claims get me to change my mind.
Look:
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/guitar-hero-iii-legends-of-rock/834647p1.html - Guitar Hero 3 for PC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-KrlF3MJqc - saints row 2 for PC
still not convinced? read this article that actually made it into the top articles on the escapist for the year:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_265/7935-Punching-the-Baby-Seal-of-PC-Gaming

theres a WHOLE laundry list of PC games that had console versions that just dont work on a PC because of its risky nature

the only time i see anyone complain about a console game being buggy is when its by Bethesda (but on PC their games are MUCH more buggy, just look at New Vegas) or when its by a smaller studio.

satisfied? or did you not think i had any evidence to back up my claims?
Ok, so the games not working well is not because of pc's "risky nature". I can play most games on high but even on all low saints row 2 runs like crap. It's a bad port by a company that didn't initially make the game, but well playing I had next to no true "glitches", just bad performance.

And a port is, well, a port. If a game made for console is brought to PC, well fucking duh it will have more problems than its main platform. Killing floor has never bugged out on me, is all I'm saying.

Console games are buggy too, mostly in the crashing department but there are other things too.

And apparently New Vegas is said to work best on PC, so I don't know where you heard it was worst. I heard it's worst on the 360 from friends and the latest escapist article.

And no, not satisfied because I wasn't arguing. You can think whatever you want. (Plus I never like to lose an argument; I wont, I can't!)

summerof2010 said:
You're right though; Bethesda should have caught that.
We can all let it slide because, well, it is Obsidian. Horrible track record with this kind of stuff.
 

Tiswas

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I like this. In the past year I've found more games that have ridiculous bugs in them and it's getting ridiculous.

Hopefully after thy can work on New Vegas
 

halbarad

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There's a few things I've noticed in this thread so I'll go through them.

First there is the main point - the black ops being broken on the PC and PS3. While it isn't THAT broken it does have bugs that don't appear on the 360 version which in itself is bad. It proves an unwillingness to support those two versions.

There is the person who said 'just buy it on the 360'. I hate to say mate, but you're an idiot. Why should somebody invest in a new console for a game?
Infact, I own all the consoles and a gaming PC I built myself and I got Black Ops on the PC simply because it is my preferred format for First Person Shooters and generally any multi-player game due to the community being significantly better than that of it's XBL counterpart and a bit better than the PSN counterpart, also the availability of an outstanding modding community is a selling point for every single PC game.


Now I have to mention the number of complaints in this thread thrown at Obsidian's New Vegas. I'm going to defend this game because while it does have it's bugs you will notice that patches have been released quite frequently for each format while Black Ops suffers from barely having any patches released on the PC and PS3 version while the 360 gets support.
Also, Black Ops is a very linear game, small fixed locations and easily spotted and fixed bugs. Do you know how many variables come into an open world game like New Vegas for even one bug to happen? One person may never find a bug that another did because of the number of things that have to happen for this bug to occur - there is so much going on that it is almost impossible to pinpoint what causes something but the point is, they keep trying to fix these things.

The reason why this lawsuit is a good thing is because when it comes to Black Ops, there is no trying.
 

CrystalShadow

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Apr 11, 2009
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Kalezian said:
should I say it?

yes, I should.


YOU bought a game.

If the game is not up to expectations of what YOU think it is, by all means sell it.


this is like someone buying a shit sandwich and complaining that their shit has corn in it.


edit: I mean really, if a game isnt good then get rid of it and voice why you got rid of it, example, Halo Reach because it was just Halo 3 with jetpacks.
Sorry, but this isn't about it being a 'shit' game, it's about it being a buggy game.

Trading standards exist for a reason, and just because something is for entertainment, doesn't mean it shouldn't fulfil some basic requirements.

Game developers, and IT producers in general get away with murder compared to most groups that sell products.

Granted, the complexity of computer software makes this complicated, but in general, a computer is subject to the same 'fitness for purpose' laws as any other product sold at retail. (meaning you are legally allowed to force the retailer to deal with it if it doesn't work, and not be expected to send it off somewhere. And this applies even if it's out of warranty - Assuming you can prove it's a design fault, anyway.)

- But, this gets forgotten so quickly.

And for software, even less people are inclined to complain.

But in the end,

Would you put up with owning a new television that turns off at random intervals?
A toaster that burns bread regardless of the setting?
A radio that changes the frequency it's tuned to unexpectedly?
VCR that chews tapes? (I know. Who still owns a VCR)
DVD player that where the DVD's are ejected constantly?

I could go on, but that's what bugs equate to.

We have gotten so complacent with bugs in games that we put up with a lot of shit that no other product would get away with.

I don't expect things to always be flawless, but if nobody ever complains, these things will only get worse, because companies will end up thinking nobody cares, and that we'll buy their games anyway.

A game can be bad, as long as it works. - That's the only thing being asked here.
 

new_vision

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Cyberjester said:
uppitycracker said:
on the topic of it working for me and not for others, it really does make one wonder just what the issue is. i almost want to say it's geared more towards people who bottleneck their systems, have piss poor configurations, or some other user-end error. i've definitely noticed a trend with the newer video cards causing the issues, between a certain time frame of GPU release anyway. my 9800GT, before it died (RIP), played it flawlessly alongside my E8500. so many people pick up the lower-end models of the newer cards and expect wonderful results with their i7's, and sometimes the other way around (lower clocked CPU's with the higher-end GPU models), and I guess it's just general ignorance on how these things should work.
Could just be they only tested on older cards. Yea, it works on this card, has to work on the newer ones, right? Sure, just ship the thing.

Happens quite a lot. Old graphics card is fine, newer one and my game is all of a sudden unplayable.


Would be good if this worked though. I have a list of games for them to look at..
Actually, it tends to be even worse than this!

When developing a game for pc, the way that the graphics requirements are set is by (and there are exceptions, but this is the general way) simulating different graphics cards. This is done by forcing the game to run with certain Direct X setting and Pixel Shader Technology, and video RAM. Whilst the frequencies aren't actually played with at all, just by changing this information, they can get a good idea of when the game stops being playable and then use a reference chart for recommended specifications.

CPU's are tested in a similar way, but disabling cores and limiting clock speeds and then gradually raising them again.

As far as the new graphics cards go, any issues here are generally just left up to the Manufacturer to fix. Then if the Driver Development team finds a bug which can't be fixed on their end, the game Developer will have to go back and make a patch. This (with buggy games) is generally post-release mind you.
 

Tzatziki3301

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Interesting debate:

Which would you feel more annoyed at, getting a game that turns out to have a few bugs but is largely playable the same day worldwide, or having to wait weeks after it was released on another platform before being able to play it?

I know which option Sony would choose.