"Gaming in Color", a Kickstarter Documentary on LGBT+ Gaming

Darken12

New member
Apr 16, 2011
1,061
0
0
JazzJack2 said:
I am sorry but in my experience peoples attitude to gay gamers is just the same online as it is for straight gamers, I have never felt like I was singled out for my sexuality while playing games and I find it difficult to believe any other gay guy has. All this will be is a bunch of whining morons complaining about how someone called him a fag on call of duty, interspersed with segments about how as a whole the gaming community is 'super proggessive' on issues like this and other self righteous, self indulgent platitudes designed to stroke the egos of middle class pseudo progressive hipsters.
I have, my gay friend has, my bi friend has, every single LGBTQ+ person I know has. There are entire threads dedicated to LGBTQ+ people supporting each other when the harassment they receive in their daily lives follows them online. In case you haven't noticed, being told "you fucked up! what are you, fucking gay???" or "YOU FUCKING ******!" is actually harassment based on your sexuality, regardless of whether straight people get told the same or not. This is the exact same reasoning we were talking about the other day regarding the Dragon Crown's artist's homophobic joke, where the reason it was homophobic was precisely because of the implication that there was something wrong with being gay. Likewise, using gay/****** as an insult IS homophobic, because using it as an insult means there's something wrong/shameful/etc. about it.

Please, stop spitting in the face of people who are literally doing nothing to you. You are being selfish and insensitive.

I'd also advise broadening your experiences and listening to what other people have to say on the subject, but apparently are already dead-set against it.
 

JazzJack2

New member
Feb 10, 2013
268
0
0
Darken12 said:
In case you haven't noticed, being told "you fucked up! what are you, fucking gay???" or "YOU FUCKING ******!" is actually harassment based on your sexuality
No it's not, I was harassed for my sexuality when I was a teenager even to the point where I was beaten up by other kids. It's insulting and patronizing to suggest a few online comments are harassment (especially since they are often not intentionally homophobic and are usually just said by mouthy ignorant 13 year olds) and people who are greatly offended by comments like 'hurr ur a fag' are either just looking to get offended or simply need to get thicker skin and get some fucking perspective on life.
 

Ryotknife

New member
Oct 15, 2011
1,687
0
0
While im sure the documentary is well intentioned, I believe things like this create division just as much as hate speech does by focusing on what group you belong to.

As for harassment, Ive been in quite a few games where people insist I was a woman because I don't like to talk in game and would rather type (WoW and L4D2 in particular) or because I play more of a support role. And some things did change when they thought I was a woman.

Instead of people threatening my mother, sister, grandmother, or cousin with rape/death, they threaten me directly. ****** gets thrown around despite your orientation or gender (for gods sake ive heard people use that word against dogs and cats that they didn't like). While these are changes, in the grand scheme of things nothing really changed.
 

Darken12

New member
Apr 16, 2011
1,061
0
0
Milk said:
They want $50,000 to make a documentary about the LBGTQ gamer community?

Sounds like they really need to check their privilege.
I invite you to do the math yourself, when it comes to professional sound, recording and editing equipment. Please include the price of at least 10 airline tickets from remote parts of the US to where they will be filming this, and at least 500 miles of gas for their car trips. Also, hotel stays and food.

And this is assuming they won't be collecting any form of salary or compensating their guests in any way.

Because it seems that in order to be a "true" indie documentary that dispels any distrust in its audience, it has to be done on a Super 8 camera and a literal shoestring budget. And then, such endeavours get disparaged as unprofessional, amateurish and unworthy of the audience's time, because it's not a widescreen, HD, polished release with professional recording, sound and editing. Things that, as anyone will know, cost money.

Complaining about something without thinking it through is still free, though.
 

Darken12

New member
Apr 16, 2011
1,061
0
0
Ryotknife said:
While im sure the documentary is well intentioned, I believe things like this create division just as much as hate speech does by focusing on what group you belong to.
Right, because it's better if we all go out of our way to hide who we are and never talk of our experiences, because obviously everything that happens to us, all the harassment and hate speech, is our fault. We made it okay for them to attack us because we let our identities and/or orientations slip. Or, goodness forfend, we made a documentary about ourselves. What were we thinking. Clearly it was an open invitation to attack us. We should've just gone back to remaining quiet and constantly minding our every word and action in order not to upset straight/cis people.

JazzJack2 said:
Darken12 said:
In case you haven't noticed, being told "you fucked up! what are you, fucking gay???" or "YOU FUCKING ******!" is actually harassment based on your sexuality
No it's not, I was harassed for my sexuality when I was a teenager even to the point where I was beaten up by other kids. It's insulting and patronizing to suggest a few online comments are harassment (especially since they are often not intentionally homophobic and are usually just said by mouthy ignorant 13 year olds) and people who are greatly offended by comments like 'hurr ur a fag' are either just looking to get offended or simply need to get thicker skin and get some fucking perspective on life.
Right, right, because a community that systematically harasses and denigrates those who are different, in order to turn it into an exclusive white straight boys' club (and therefore shaping industry expectations), is perfectly fine. The blame is on us, for not having thicker skins. Right, right. Please tell me more about how not addressing a problem makes it go away. I'm all ears.
 

GeneralFungi

New member
Jul 1, 2010
402
0
0
I'm also not quite sure what kind of stuff that would be present in this kind of video.

But that's the reason I'm interested in seeing it.

There are a lot of people here saying that something of this nature would not have a lot to talk about. Maybe it's true, I know I'd struggle to fill a documentary on that criteria alone. But if you can't think of any significant message for this documentary to say then that's all of the more reason to watch it. Perhaps you'll learn something that you didn't already know before.

It might come as a surprise but we all have things we've yet to learn. If you knew what to expect then there wouldn't be a point in watching it to begin with.
 

JazzJack2

New member
Feb 10, 2013
268
0
0
Darken12 said:
Right, right, because a community that systematically harasses and denigrates those who are different, in order to turn it into an exclusive white straight boys' club (and therefore shaping industry expectations), is perfectly fine. The blame is on us, for not having thicker skins. Right, right. Please tell me more about how not addressing a problem makes it go away. I'm all ears.
Again I have yet to see this mythical group of people turning gaming into a 'white straight boys club' unless you think the spotty teenagers calling you a fag on call of duty are doing this, in which I reiterate, get some fucking perspective.
 

Darken12

New member
Apr 16, 2011
1,061
0
0
JazzJack2 said:
get some fucking perspective.
I would literally say the exact same thing to you.

You are not the yardstick through which everyone else's experiences are measured.

There are people out there who have actual problems, and your continued disparaging is a slap in the face to us. You don't like the documentary or the idea? Fine, nobody's forcing you to support it. But the least you can do is have some fucking respect.
 

Ryotknife

New member
Oct 15, 2011
1,687
0
0
Darken12 said:
Ryotknife said:
While im sure the documentary is well intentioned, I believe things like this create division just as much as hate speech does by focusing on what group you belong to.
Right, because it's better if we all go out of our way to hide who we are and never talk of our experiences, because obviously everything that happens to us, all the harassment and hate speech, is our fault. We made it okay for them to attack us because we let our identities and/or orientations slip. Or, goodness forfend, we made a documentary about ourselves. What were we thinking. Clearly it was an open invitation to attack us. We should've just gone back to remaining quiet and constantly minding our every word and action in order not to upset straight/cis people.
really?

really?

Are you THAT desperate to be the victim in every single subject? but please, do continue on how everything is apparently my fault and I should cater to your every opinion and whim. Because god forbid someone has an opinion that is different than yours!

Piece of advice, the world owes you (or me) NOTHING.

Oh, and good job breaking your own rule about keeping things civil, apparently that only applies to other people.
 

Johnny Novgorod

Bebop Man
Legacy
Feb 9, 2012
18,557
3,089
118
Requia said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
LGBTQ? That's a new letter right there, 'Q'. I thought it was LGBT? What brand new sexuality did we come up with? :)
It's Queer, and its not really a brand so much as 'everybody else goes here'.
If it's an umbrella term for LGBT, why not shorten LGBTQ to 'Q' then?
 

CloudAtlas

New member
Mar 16, 2013
873
0
0
A thread about a documentation on LGBT experiences in gaming? This was bound to be fun. You'd think that making a documentary about the experiences of (mainly, I guess) lesbians and gays in gaming would be a rather innocent undertaking, but not so. But while this discussions didn't turn as nasty as similar discussions about sexism, you still see the same type of comments as when it's about sexism, racism, or what not.

# "This documentation is not necessary". Yea, there's a lot of stuff that isn't necessary, there are documentations about virtually anything, so what's the issue with this one then? And perhaps some people believe it's necessary, perhaps some people find it interesting - so what? It seems that there's a certain subset of "unnecessary" things that some people have greater problems with than with others.

# "I hate this political correctness". That's cool, because that's not what it is about. In fact, these discussions rarely are.

# "Don't complain, just enjoy games" / "It's just a game, stop pushing your agendas". You know what, people from minorities want to enjoy their games too, so wouldn't it be nice if games were not offensive to them, if they were less homophobic (or sexist/racist/whatever)? Wouldn't it be nice if they're treated as respectfully as others online (not that that's a particularly high bar)?

# "No need to pander to very minority". That's easy to say if you're in the majority. What is this "pandering" supposed to be anyway? Things like featuring a more diverse cast in a game, for instance, a cast that includes good gay/female/non-white characters. A game that caters to their wishes too (like gay romance options). And, yea, just not being homophobic (or sexist/racist/whatever). Nothing that should really hurt anyone too much, and you know what? Many straight white dudes would welcome all that too.
Gays have every right to demand that games cater to their wishes as you. Don't worry, your still the majority, your wishes will still have more weight.

# Complaints about the sexuality of certain characters in BioWare games. How dare they to include gay characters! And, even worse, how dare they including gay-only love interests (Mass Effect 3)! It really sucks that not everyone wants to bang with you! And how dare they to make all love interests bisexual (Dragon Age 2)! It really sucks that everyone wants to bang with you!


# "This kickstarter campaign doesn't deserve that much money". What does it matter? What do you care how much they ask for? You're not forced to spend a single dime. Reminds me of a certain other kickstarter campaign; oh boy, did the gamer community showed its ugliest face there...


# "I haven't experienced any problems with the treatment of gays" or "I know gays and they never complained about X." You know what? That's good for you/them. But that doesn't imply that no one else has made bad experiences. That doesn't imply that X is not offensive (to a sizable share).

# "Gays don't have it worse in gaming than elsewhere, so this isn't necessary". Because if things are bad elsewhere, it's no problem that they have it bad here too, right? That's moral relativism, nothing else.
Perhaps gays really don't have it worse in the gaming community than elsewhere. I have some doubts about that, but I'm not the one to judge. But even if that is so, why not set a positive example for once?

# "Being called a fag on XBL is no real harassment, don't be so sensitive". Yes, perhaps gays face more serious issues, like not being allowed to marry. Or being stoned to death. But let me tell you something: There almost always are things that are worse. And there's almost always someone who has it worse, too. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't do something about the more "minor" problems as well. Again, that's moral relativism.
And you know what, if you disagree on that, you shouldn't be here anyway. You should be fighting for world peace or something like that. Because that's surely more important, isn't it?
 

Darken12

New member
Apr 16, 2011
1,061
0
0
Ryotknife said:
Yes, do please do tell me all about how I'm being uncivil and how I'm blaming you for everything. It's fascinating stuff. I especially enjoy the irony of accusing me of playing the victim while you do literally the same.

Johnny Novgorod said:
If it's an umbrella term for LGBT, why not shorten LGBTQ to 'Q' then?
It's already being done. The word "queer" is being used as an adjective as a shorthand for LGBTQ+ and the rest of the letters. In academia, for example, it's often used in terms such as "queer studies".

However, it's a very controversial word, since it's still being used as a slur to this day. A lot of people (myself included) think that usage such as "queer studies" is a lot like saying "****** studies", and therefore the acronym is preferred.
 

Ryotknife

New member
Oct 15, 2011
1,687
0
0
Darken12 said:
how are you being uncivil? Well that is pretty obvious to everyone here. You personally attack anyone who disagrees with you insinuating that they are either evil or bigots.

You are not interested in discussion, or debate, or being civil. All you want to people to agree with everything you say and pull the victim card whenever you don't get your way. This is just as annoying as someone starting a thread looking for advice and then fighting tooth and nail against every single piece of advice.

The irony of this being you were the first to break the civil rule, at least in our little spat here. Nothing I said in my first post was uncivil, and somehow that warrant you twisting it into an attack against me. Now, if other people throughout this thread were uncivil to you first then im sorry, but that does not justify blindly lashing out at others just for kicks.
 

Darken12

New member
Apr 16, 2011
1,061
0
0
Ryotknife said:
how are you being uncivil? Well that is pretty obvious to everyone here. You personally attack anyone who disagrees with you insinuating that they are either evil or bigots.

You are not interested in discussion, or debate, or being civil. All you want to people to agree with everything you say and pull the victim card whenever you don't get your way. This is just as annoying as someone starting a thread looking for advice and then fighting tooth and nail against every single piece of advice.
And you're just making stuff up because you can't address the actual points I'm making. Don't address the victim-blaming and straight/cis privilege you were engaging in; make vague, general assertions about how I'm conducting myself so that you don't have to own up to your own behaviour.

Also, this isn't looking for advice or judgement. This is, at best, a news post. You can disagree all you like, but if you're going to come to an LGBTQ+ thread to tell us that it's our own fault when we get hate speech? Because we're making a documentary? And then complain when someone calls you out on it? That's not disagreeing, or discussion. That's not civil, either. You're just too proud to admit you made a bad judgment call.

EDIT:

Ryotknife said:
The irony of this being you were the first to break the civil rule, at least in our little spat here. Nothing I said in my first post was uncivil, and somehow that warrant you twisting it into an attack against me. Now, if other people throughout this thread were uncivil to you first then im sorry, but that does not justify blindly lashing out at others just for kicks.
I consider victim-blaming to be excessively uncivil. If you don't consider that to be uncivil, my response wasn't uncivil in the slightest, either.
 

Requia

New member
Apr 4, 2013
703
0
0
Johnny Novgorod said:
Requia said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
LGBTQ? That's a new letter right there, 'Q'. I thought it was LGBT? What brand new sexuality did we come up with? :)
It's Queer, and its not really a brand so much as 'everybody else goes here'.
If it's an umbrella term for LGBT, why not shorten LGBTQ to 'Q' then?
Good question. Maybe because the Queer alliance still taints the word? (this was a protest group way back that fell apart because of racism), maybe because of concerns that nobody would get what it means, while the LGB part is at least commonly understood today.
 

MindFragged

New member
Apr 2, 2009
104
0
0
Fappy said:
Seems kind of cool, but I'd be more interested if the documentary had a wider scope. Frame the narrative so that we see it isn't one particular group that has problems, but that the gaming community as a whole just isn't very accepting of anyone outside the norm (homosexuals, women, squeaky English children,etc.)

If they're going to focus strictly on homosexuals I'd think it would just be full of obvious arguments. I mean, basically they just deal with the same shit while playing games as they do in every other aspect of their life. Though, I suppose it would be interesting to see how they set up those cons and gaming groups.
I was a squeaky English child once, and they annoy me. Is that okay?

Fair point on the second para too. It might be wrong of me to assume it, but the direction/angle of this documentary could be pretty predictable. That said, if people want to fund it, good luck to them. I'm not invested enough to put money in the pot, but if it causes a stir later I might watch it. Indie game: the movie got on Netflix, so I can hope, right?
 

Zeldias

New member
Oct 5, 2011
282
0
0
I gotta lol at the title "Gaming in Color" since that automatically doesn't mean people of color. Also, I hope they actually cover more than just middle-class/upper middle-class cisgender whites like most of the mainstream LGBT shit does.
 

Calcium

New member
Dec 30, 2010
529
0
0
I'm not really interested in games like Blood Dragon. Devs clearly shouldn't be making first person shooters. Why is the industry pandering to those who may be interested in such games?

Anyway, I think my point is clear enough. If you're not interested in this film, cool, we have something in common, I'm not really interested either. If you are interested in this film then cool, people have different interests and I'm fine with that. A small fairly independent film is not going to lead to some kind of society of enforced political correctness, nor is it going to lead to gamers becoming more understanding and less hostile.