Gaming Journalists Make No Damn Sense

[Houseman]

It sounds like they aren't really a thing then. Like you are inflating them and their influence.

Anita Sarkeesian has had jobs consulting for game studios.

I mean if someone wants to say, why not have more diverse characters, guess what, that isn't a problem and we have gotten much more diverse characters in gaming, which is neat.

This is their motte and bailey. When they are criticized for trying to push progressive politics and for trying to be moral busybodies, the hide behind "oh, but I really just only want diversity!"

No they don't. This is a lie. Don't believe them.

EDIT: The worst thing, and the thing that I think is the most damaging, is that they don't care about games as art, they don't care about making the best game. They don't care if the game is fun or not, since they don't play games. They just want to influence games despite all that. If you do that, no matter what your politics are, then you're automatically bad for the industry.

They're not trying to make a better game. They're trying to make games that push their viewpoint.

 

[Iron]

Except that the Ghost Busters reboot would have been shit regardless of if the cast was male or female. Its weird that people also seem to forget that Ghost Busters 2 even with the original cast wasn't very good, certainly not up to the first one.

Besides, you are completely ignoring a movie like Annihilation which had an all female cast and was awesome.

Annihilation? I didn't like it. I ignored it because, em, it's not an example of a good movie.
See no evil, hear no evil was great. Golden Child with Eddy Murphy. If you're a good actor, you have good material and a good director - you will produce gold, no matter the practicalities of your body. Nowadays it seems to me that bad actors get bad material with crappy directors and produce garbage, while I'm egged on to love it because of the diversity of the cast.

 

[Worgen]

Anita Sarkeesian has had jobs consulting for game studios.

So? She mostly made some good points.

This is their motte and bailey. When they are criticized for trying to push progressive politics and for trying to be moral busybodies, the hide behind "oh, but I really just only want diversity!"

No they don't. This is a lie. Don't believe them.

What are these progressive politics they are trying to push?

 

[Worgen]

Annihilation? I didn't like it. I ignored it because, em, it's not an example of a good movie.
See no evil, hear no evil was great. Golden Child with Eddy Murphy. If you're a good actor, you have good material and a good director - you will produce gold, no matter the practicalities of your body. Nowadays it seems to me that bad actors get bad material with crappy directors and produce garbage, while I'm egged on to love it because of the diversity of the cast.

Well, you are just wrong about that, but onto the next thing.
You seem to be coming at this from the angle that new is bad, old is good, you are letting nostalgia color your opinion of modern media. People forget that most of everything is crap, but over time the crap will be filtered out so only the gold or pyrite is left. People had the exact complaints back in the day and the same praise for the older stuff that came before. Try not to get too caught in that trap.

 

[Houseman]

So? She mostly made some good points.

There is no sort of point or idea that comes from an "outside perspective" that can ever be good for a hobby.
I didn't say the idea can't be good, just that it's not good for the hobby. The hobby will be damaged by outside perspectives.
Every change that is not made from within is inherently damaging to the hobby.

You first need to understand and conform to the hobby before you can ever conceive of ideas that won't be damaging.
She hasn't done that, by her own admission.

What are these progressive politics they are trying to push?

Mostly radical feminism stuff.

 

[Jarrito3002]

Ah yes after a while I have come to the conclusion that gamers and the journalist that cover it sometimes deserve each other most of the time with how petty greivouses blow out of porportion. I just found places that I feel give good coverage and decent opinion pieces and keep it moving.

I mean "we" as in the gaming community that would be asking "fake geek girls" for their credentials.
Maybe if the community gatekept harder, the devs wouldn't be as open to the idea.

Naw looking back that whole "fake geek girl" fear was some of the stupidest shit I have ever seen in my life. Like I am aware where many gamers get there apprehension from "outsiders" from I understand but the way it lashes out always falls on its face. So anyone who actually took that fake gamer girl gatekeeping serious can forever hold the L.

 

[BrawlMan]

Yeah it was the dumbest non issue. Gamers have this weird gate keeping thing going on, to be fair most groups do, remember the 'fake nerd girl' thing from awhile back? Its really weird how we tend to demand credentials from people who we think fall outside of the demographic that enjoy our favorite entertainment.

Yes. I always saw it as a non-issue. People were just making hate targets for girls/women that would not give them the time of day in middle or high school. They never gonna get with another woman or human being alone with nasty, sexist attitudes like that.

Admittedly some of those "fake gamer girls" became cam-girls on twitch.

I don't care much for the cam-girls, but they ain't that a big deal. I know they tend to get a bit more leeway when they mess up or do something stupid. I know it is frustrating, but most of them seem to be okay. You're always gonna have your assholes (and they should be called out and punished fairly like everyone else), but I am not going throw every single gamer girl "real" or "fake" under the bus. Besides, the only people I care about on Twitch are Max_Dood, Woolie, Pat, Mat, Omega Sphere, GodFatherDictator, and Seraphim17. A majority of their stuff they put on or are already on YouTube.

 

[Worgen]

There is no sort of point or idea that comes from an "outside perspective" that can ever be good for a hobby.
I didn't say the idea can't be good, just that it's not good for the hobby. The hobby will be damaged by outside perspectives.
Every change that is not made from within is inherently damaging to the hobby.

You first need to understand and conform to the hobby before you can ever conceive of ideas that won't be damaging.
She hasn't done that, by her own admission.

That is a straight up lie. Having an outside perspective can always be useful. Look at game development, its not uncommon for a team to have a really dumb control scheme but they are so used to it they don't realize how un-intuitive it is, so they get outside feed back and make it better. Plus, this is gaming, gaming is designed to be welcoming to new comers, calling anyone an outsider is weird at this point since games have taken over the world and its not hard to get into them. So I say bullshit to that.

Mostly radical feminism stuff.

What is this radical feminist stuff that is potentially so damaging?

 

[Worgen]

Yes. I always saw it as a non-issue. People were just making hate targets for girls/women that would not give them the time of day in middle or high school. They never gonna get with another woman or human being alone with nasty, sexist attitudes like that.

Its really just insecure guys being all like "ewww women want in our space, NO GIRLS ALLOWED! *fart noise, fart noise, burp*" For as far as I can see, no good reason then because they just want their own exclusive club.

 

[Houseman]

That is a straight up lie. Having an outside perspective can always be useful. Look at game development, its not uncommon for a team to have a really dumb control scheme but they are so used to it they don't realize how un-intuitive it is, so they get outside feed back and make it better. Plus, this is gaming, gaming is designed to be welcoming to new comers, calling anyone an outsider is weird at this point since games have taken over the world and its not hard to get into them. So I say bullshit to that.

For example, see the whole "Dark Souls should have an easy mode!" debate... which is what this thread is (or once was) about.

What is this radical feminist stuff that is potentially so damaging?

All of it is damaging because it's not done for the purpose of making a better game.
Anything that is not done in service to the game is damaging to it.

If someone were to be a gamer first and a radical feminist second, then I would have no problem with their game.

 

[Worgen]

For example, see the whole "Dark Souls should have an easy mode!" debate... which is what this thread is (or once was) about.

It probably should have one, actually it does have one. The ability to call other players to help you.

All of it is damaging because it's not done for the purpose of making a better game.
Anything that is not done in service to the game is damaging to it.

If someone were to be a gamer first and a radical feminist second, then I would have no problem with their game.

Thats.... what? What the hell are you talking about?

 

[CriticalGaming]

Look at game development, its not uncommon for a team to have a really dumb control scheme but they are so used to it they don't realize how un-intuitive it is, so they get outside feed back and make it better

The feedback still comes from people within the hobby of gaming as a whole. So this doesn't validate your point here.

Houseman's point was outside in terms of people who have no interest of knowledge of gaming as a whole, thus being "outside" the hobby itself.

Sure outside perspective can help when it comes from other knowledgeable people that might have no connection to a given project but still have a connection to the medium as a whole.

Which is a very different thing.

Feminist Frequency's issues all came from a result of Anita being an "outsider" of the hobby. She admittedly had no interest, desire, or enjoyment of video games, and the vast majority of her videos showcase her utter disregard for the facts. Every point she made might be valid from an outside point perspective, but her points didn't really hold water to anyone with who knew video gaming as a whole.

And frankly Anita's influence (which has thankfully faded) on the gaming projects she was able to get her hooks into, didn't work out. The Last of Us 2, for example.

Outsider opinions at best should be taken with a grain of salt. You wouldn't trust a vegetarian to review a Steak House would you, despite they may provide a rave review of the salad.

 

[Houseman]

It probably should have one, actually it does have one. The ability to call other players to help you.

So are you saying that the outside perspectives calling for an easy mode are already obsolete because they only have a surface-level knowledge of the game? Hmm, interesting.

Thats.... what? What the hell are you talking about?

If you have a change in mind, and your goal isn't to make a better game, then your change will automatically be damaging to the game.

 

[Worgen]

So are you saying that the outside perspectives calling for an easy mode are already obsolete because they only have a surface-level knowledge of the game? Hmm, interesting.

No, I'm saying those people whining about people asking for an easy mode are whining because there already is kind of one.

If you have a change in mind, and your goal isn't to make a better game, then your change will automatically be damaging to the game.

Ok, assuming that makes sense, what would be some changes that didn't make for a better game?

 

[Houseman]

Ok, assuming that makes sense, what would be some changes that didn't make for a better game?

Unless the developers tell us exactly why they made the change they did, we can only speculate.

But when someone sees things like TLoU2, they wonder how much was due to Sarkeesian's influence or Druckmann's ideology.
When someone sees Nadine from Uncharted beat up two grown men by herself, people wonder why and how that character came to be.
Then there's the prosthetic-cyborg cricket-bat women in Battlefield V, a game which tanked by Battlefield standards.
And no, Tracer's butt change did not make the game better.

When has censorship ever made a game better? Have you ever been more likely to purchase a game where a character's exposed skin has been covered up by a skin-tight shadow?

 

[Worgen]

Unless the developers tell us exactly why they made the change they did, we can only speculate.

But when someone sees things like TLoU2, they wonder how much was due to Sarkeesian's influence or Druckmann's ideology.
When someone sees Nadine from Uncharted beat up two grown men by herself, people wonder why and how that character came to be.
Then there's the prosthetic-cyborg cricket-bat women in Battlefield V, a game which tanked by Battlefield standards.
And no, Tracer's butt change did not make the game better.

When has censorship ever made a game better? Have you ever been more likely to purchase a game where a character's exposed skin has been covered up by a skin-tight shadow?

They had a story they wanted to tell in TLoU2, doesn't matter if you didn't like that story.
Blaming BFV only selling 7.3 million units on that is really weird when it also faced really strong competition from Fortnite, COD BLOPS 4, Red Dead Redeption 2 and Apex legends.
You are just wrong about this Traces new pose was much more in line with the playfulness of the character, it was a much more dynamic pose that added characterization to her much more then just standing in a dull pose did.

Yes yes it has, but its difficult to find examples since unlike movies, there tends not to be a ton of easy to access development info for most games. But the one that comes to mind is the TF2 german version. When you gib enemies in it instead of body parts you get toys which is fun, you also have the different violence modes in in Serious Sam like hippy mode where all the blood is flowers (although that one is optional). Oh, actually I just remembered, Halo. The developers decided to censor the skull you carry in Oddball, originally it was covered in gore but it made the team rather sick so they just made it a skull.

 

[Houseman]

They had a story they wanted to tell in TLoU2, doesn't matter if you didn't like that story.

Like I said, "Unless the developers tell us exactly why they made the change they did, we can only speculate."

What question are you answering with "Yes yes it has", and how are those connected to the TF2 German version?
Are you saying you were more likely to buy TF2 when the gibs were censored?

 

[Trunkage]

Unless the developers tell us exactly why they made the change they did, we can only speculate.

But when someone sees things like TLoU2, they wonder how much was due to Sarkeesian's influence or Druckmann's ideology.
When someone sees Nadine from Uncharted beat up two grown men by herself, people wonder why and how that character came to be.
Then there's the prosthetic-cyborg cricket-bat women in Battlefield V, a game which tanked by Battlefield standards.
And no, Tracer's butt change did not make the game better.

When has censorship ever made a game better? Have you ever been more likely to purchase a game where a character's exposed skin has been covered up by a skin-tight shadow?

You know that a grown man beating up two grown men is highly unlikely, right? It’s a power fantasy.

 

[Worgen]

Like I said, "Unless the developers tell us exactly why they made the change they did, we can only speculate."

What question are you answering with "Yes yes it has", and how are those connected to the TF2 German version?
Are you saying you were more likely to buy TF2 when the gibs were censored?

Then you admit you are just speculating about censorship or "radical feminists" worse.

I got tf2 with the Orange Box, I didn't get the Orange Box for TF2.

 

[Crystal Violet]

[Post-edits: I read back and I was much too harsh in my language, Please excuse me! I was on the phone to family today and picked up their bad habits lol]

I'm not reading all 22 pages so maybe I am just parrotting everyone else but...

How many articles have there been? How many times does a hard game come out, and countless articles cry about the lack of easy mode in games.

Seikro needs and easy mode. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidt...ts-players-and-add-an-easy-mode/#33c1f8281639

Easy has never ruined a game. https://kotaku.com/an-easy-mode-has-never-ruined-a-game-1833757865

Cuphead is not inclusive enough. https://www.polygon.com/2017/10/4/16422060/cuphead-difficulty-exclusion

You gave 3 examples of crying about a a lack of easy mode but 2/3 of those articles are... not doing that? Forbes? Fine, they want an easy mode. Kotaku. Well no, they're saying developers should consider it and put forth a good argument. And the Polygon one is actually exploring the very real question of whether exclusion is valid and they don't really conclude one way or the other.

Over and over again, name a hard game and you'll find a games journalist, (who is a person that is supposed to be invested in playing video games for a living) bitching about how it is too hard.

Let's be honest, there aren't that many articles about this but buy god there are 10 million fucking threads about it. Arguing for an easy mode, whether you agree or not, is reasonable and these article put forth good arguments even if you don't agree. But your bitching about journalists is just.... bitching.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have come full circle. From too hard, to too fucking easy. Yes that's right Kotaku has done another Journalism, this time bitching that the easy mode in FF7 is TOO easy. https://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-vii-remakes-easy-mode-is-way-too-easy-1842791313

What are you talking about? Those Kotaku articles were written by two different authors? What do you want from them? Isn't it good that Kotaku are willing to publish conflicting opinion pieces? Kotaku is a thrash website but not because two different authors had two different opinions.

Sometimes you can't please people I guess.

I know, right?

Which by the way has ALWAYS been my argument AGAINST easy modes in normally challenging games like Sekiro or Souls or whatever. If the developers design for a specific challenge, do not undermine that challenge by letting players circumvent that challenge with an easy mode you can toggle.

This is a tiresome argument I've been reading since Dark Souls 1 and it doesn't get any less stupid. Mark Brown made a great video about the different ways to integrate an easy mode into the options that avoid this temptation so you can't just flick it on and off. If you don't like it you never have to use it. I'll never use it. But what's the fucking problem if someone else does?

Because the temptation is there always.

That sounds like a you problem. I play Seikiro for the challenge and I've never felt tempted to download any of the easily accessible easy mode mods.

Ya'll can say you don't wouldn't mind Souls having an easy mode because it wouldn't affect the way you play. And it is easy to say that on a forum. But when you are on your 50th death against Gwen, and easy mode is a click away, you are a liar if you say you wouldn't be tempted.

Speak for yourself, dude. Or would you like me to prove it by livestreaming me playing through DS1 Lvl Cleric build with the easy mode mod installed but not turned on? I could do that? Or I could upload it to Youtube? Or what about you come to my place in France and watch me play if you can dry your eyes of the tears you get knowing that someone in the world is arguing for an optional, non-invasive easy mode that you will never have to use.

Yes they beat the fight, but they gained only disappointment from how much easier it was. Thus this writer faced the thing every Souls-like fan has ever said on the topic of difficulty. Overcoming the full challenge is what will grant you satisfaction, not dumbing down the encounter just to get over the hump.

Let's say I play the game on easy mode ( I never will) and I enjoy the game on easy mode (I wouldn't): why would that make the smallest of difference to you?