Gay characters in children's cartoons

A Weary Exile

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Note: It's been brought to my attention that there was a thread similar to this once before, however I wish to restart the discussion with my own questions and perspective, so please no "Search bar plz" comments.


The recent jokes surrounding the sexual orientation of the character Rainbow Dash from MLP:FiM, while obviously not to be taken seriously, have sparked a bit of thought from me regarding homosexual or otherwise "Gay" characters in cartoons and what others might think of such characters becoming more common. Children's cartoons don't focus on things such as sexuality to any significant degree, I?m thinking more within the context of schoolyard crushes than anything, so keep that in mind while reading the OP.

There is a very distinct lack of gay characters in children?s cartoons, at least here in America there certainly is, and I think that is because being gay still carries a taboo in this part of the world. What better way to get past this archaic stigma than to teach children that gays aren?t to be feared or hated? Including gay characters in children?s television programs could do a lot to help with this, not using their homosexuality to define them but merely as a part of their character as a whole. We don?t need more effeminate men prancing around in drag or butch lesbians to drive the point home, I think we need relatable, well thought-out characters that can claim to respectably represent homosexuals without resorting to stereotypical characterization. Not only would this indirectly foster tolerance of gays in children but it would also give any children who might actually turn out to be homosexual someone to look up to or, at the very least, confirmation that whatever they feel is not abnormal.

An example of one such character that I?ve always thought was very well-done was [a href="http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Haku"]Haku[/a] from the Naruto series. He?s a pacifist by nature but continues to fight out of some misguided devotion to his insane father figure (Or romantic interest, I could never quite tell) Zabuza,.To me that?s brilliant characterization with Haku?s homosexuality being only one feature of his overall complex personality. He does dress and look female but I think it?s done rather tastefully.

Just so that I?m not misinterpreted understand that I don?t want to turn all kid?s shows into some PSA for love and tolerance of all peoples, kids want to be entertained not feel like they?re being lectured, I just think that there is a missed opportunity in excluding gays (Intentional or no) from this type of programming. I would also like to point out that I am not personally gay, so I?m essentially an outsider looking in and probably have a bit of a skewed perspective because of this, any posts from Escapists that are actually gay would be appreciated.

Questions to consider when posting:
-Does the idea of including more or any gay characters in a show targeted at younger audiences bother you? Reasons for why or why not?
-Speaking specifically about the character of Rainbow Dash: In the (Highly unlikely) event that she was to actually turn out to be homosexual how would you feel about this change? Do you think she would make a good gay character or does she fit too neatly into established stereotypes?


EDIT: Accidentally hit post before I could add the poll. Rectifying this ASAP.
 

Bara_no_Hime

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I completely agree.

Positive role models are important for children, and there aren't enough gay ones.

It has been shown that many children are aware they are gay long before they are aware of sexuality or romantic issues - they just know. Having a character who they can relate to as part of the television they watch is essential for developing self-esteem and confidence.

There is no reason to bring 'sex' into it either - if a female character can have a crush on a boy, a female character can have a crush on a girl - we already have characters having crushes in children's shows, so nothing more needs to be added other than changing who the target of the crush is.

Since you brought up MLP - Rarity has a crush on Prince Blueblood. There's no reason Rainbow Dash couldn't have a crush on Spitfire (a female pony) and be just as appropriate.
 

Sehnsucht Engel

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I want to see more gay characters in cartoons. Including those that are targeted at a younger audience, but also animes like black lagoon, which is targeted at an older demographic. I would love it if Revy turned out to be gay or if they actually added some romance.

I think it would be a good thing in children's shows, even if a lot of people would probably complain. Homosexuals do exist and it's alright to be one. If children were taught that when they're young they would have it easier, as they grow up and realize they are gay, if they are. It would with time hopefully become more acceptable to be gay.

A Weary Exile said:
The recent jokes surrounding the sexual orientation of the character Rainbow Dash from MLP:FiM, while obviously not to be taken seriously
What do you mean by not be taken seriously? I think she is a lesbian. I see her as that. She is a flying gay pride flag after all.

I think she'd make a great gay character. I don't actually think they'll ever add it to the show though.
 

JoJo

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I personally wouldn't have any issue with that, on the contary I think it would be a very good thing as from a young age kids would learn that non-heterosexuals exist and should be treated fairly and with respect. Case in point, my little sister Rosie (7) recently found out from an episode of the Simpsons that gay people exist, and doesn't seem to have any problem with the idea of two people of the same gender being in love or even of them getting married, as no-one in my family makes a big deal out of it.

As for Rainbow Dash, I don't watch MLP so I can't comment on that character...
 

Sehnsucht Engel

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Kipohippo said:
I think you guys are over shooting this. Being straight is biologically normal. Should we not present that as a norm? Yes, homosexuality is a part of life, but we dont need to stuff it into entertainment for the hell of it. Especially a kid's show. If a kid is going to be gay, let them find that out for themselves instead of doing it because this character from this show is gay.
I think people should be able to feel secure in their sexuality. If a kid turn out gay, they'll often be teased and hated for it, because it's not the norm. If they put gay characters in cartoons it will probably become more acceptable with time to be gay.
 

Bara_no_Hime

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Kipohippo said:
I think you guys are over shooting this. Being straight is biologically normal. Should we not present that as a norm? Yes, homosexuality is a part of life, but we dont need to stuff it into entertainment for the hell of it. Especially a kid's show. If a kid is going to be gay, let them find that out for themselves instead of doing it because this character from this show is gay.

Edit: Plus, i dont want to have to explain ANYTHING about sex to my children. Keep it simple.
You don't need to explain anything about sex - explain about love.

Also...

Being straight is biologically normal? Um, no. Homosexuality exists all throughout nature. Homosexuality is as biologically "normal" as heterosexuality.

Please don't make such ignorant and offensive statements.
 

Feralcentaur

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Kipohippo said:
I think you guys are over shooting this. Being straight is biologically normal. Should we not present that as a norm? Yes, homosexuality is a part of life, but we dont need to stuff it into entertainment for the hell of it. Especially a kid's show. If a kid is going to be gay, let them find that out for themselves instead of doing it because this character from this show is gay.
You can present something as the norm while still having things that are unusual exist as well.
What do you mean by "we dont need to stuff it into entertainment for the hell of it."? Do you mean that giving a detail about a character that's considered odd by general society is pointless or silly? Would you also say that it's pointless to have a character who happens to be Spanish?

The way you seem to phrase it, you sound like you think that merely having a homosexual character in a show is forcing homosexuality on the children watching it, if so, was X-Men trying to make people Catholic because Night Crawler was one, was Spider Man trying to force me to take up photography, did Invader Zim try to convince kids they should get a defective robot, was Sessame Street's ultimate goal to cause child death by overeating and Diabetes from Cookies?
 

Radeonx

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I'm indifferent to gay characters in TV shows, as long as the show isn't throwing the fact that that they are gay in your face over and over. Being gay is one thing, but flaunting about bragging/showing off that you are gay is stupid and annoying.
If that isn't the case, then I don't give a shit what sexuality a character is.
This is my view on gay people in general, though, and since I only skimmed through your post, please tell me if I'm completely missing the point.
 

Irony's Acolyte

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Kipohippo said:
I think you guys are over shooting this. Being straight is biologically normal. Should we not present that as a norm? Yes, homosexuality is a part of life, but we dont need to stuff it into entertainment for the hell of it. Especially a kid's show. If a kid is going to be gay, let them find that out for themselves instead of doing it because this character from this show is gay.

Edit: Plus, i dont want to have to explain ANYTHING about sex to my children. Keep it simple.
So a guy (or girl) is shown to be romantically interested in other guys (or girls). How is that any different than all the children's shows and movies that show a male and female character being interested in each other?

OT: I think it would be very good for more characters with sexualities other than heterosexual to be shown in works aimed at children. You don't need to make it about sex, as Exile said, keep to to things like schoolyard crushes or the "romance" that you see in stuff like Disney movies. It would make kids accept people with different sexualities better when they begin to grow up and better understand them.

Although I don't think that throwing in token gay characters whose defining trait is "gay" is a very good idea. Make fleshed out, believable characters that happen to be be something other than straight, that way to kids, it'll just be another part of life. You don't need them in every work, but some more representation would defiantly do some good.
 

A Weary Exile

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Kipohippo said:
I think you guys are over shooting this. Being straight is biologically normal. Should we not present that as a norm?
Right, so we should only have characters that fit within a very specific "Social Norm". I guess that means no more villains in kid's shows since they don't seem to care so much for societal norms either.

Yes, homosexuality is a part of life, but we dont need to stuff it into entertainment for the hell of it. Especially a kid's show.
It's not "For the hell of it". I gave several reasons.

If a kid is going to be gay, let them find that out for themselves instead of doing it because this character from this show is gay.
That's ridiculous. Do you really think one gay character will completely change a child's sexual orientation? Am I straight because Bugs Bunny loved the ladies? Cartoons don't hold that much influence over the minds of children, you give them too little credit.

Edit: Plus, i dont want to have to explain ANYTHING about sex to my children. Keep it simple.
Somebody didn't read all of what I wrote: I said this applies to mostly non-sexual situations such as one character having a crush on another of the same gender. Nothing more.

By the way, explaining sex to your children is one of the most important things a parent has to do. Just because you find that idea repulsive doesn't mean we have to eliminate everything from children's shows that might possibly lead them to question you about love, sex or sexual orientation.
 

Canid117

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Bara_no_Hime said:
Kipohippo said:
I think you guys are over shooting this. Being straight is biologically normal. Should we not present that as a norm? Yes, homosexuality is a part of life, but we dont need to stuff it into entertainment for the hell of it. Especially a kid's show. If a kid is going to be gay, let them find that out for themselves instead of doing it because this character from this show is gay.

Edit: Plus, i dont want to have to explain ANYTHING about sex to my children. Keep it simple.
You don't need to explain anything about sex - explain about love.

Also...

Being straight is biologically normal? Um, no. Homosexuality exists all throughout nature. Homosexuality is as biologically "normal" as heterosexuality.

Please don't make such ignorant and offensive statements.
Pretty sure he is trolling.

Also pretty sure Rainbow is actually bi. Based on that quickie she gave that brown pony in ep 26.

Oh my god... I.. I think I might be a brony! NOOOOOO!!!!!!
 

Feralcentaur

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Bara_no_Hime said:
Kipohippo said:
I think you guys are over shooting this. Being straight is biologically normal. Should we not present that as a norm? Yes, homosexuality is a part of life, but we dont need to stuff it into entertainment for the hell of it. Especially a kid's show. If a kid is going to be gay, let them find that out for themselves instead of doing it because this character from this show is gay.

Edit: Plus, i dont want to have to explain ANYTHING about sex to my children. Keep it simple.
You don't need to explain anything about sex - explain about love.

Also...

Being straight is biologically normal? Um, no. Homosexuality exists all throughout nature. Homosexuality is as biologically "normal" as heterosexuality.

Please don't make such ignorant and offensive statements.
Well, if were going by majority rule, since the majority of animals with a two sex mating system are heterosexual, you could say that makes it the norm as it's more common...

Although, normal isn't necessarily a good thing and abnormal isn't necessarily bad.
It would be abnormal for someone to donate their lives savings all to charity, but that doesn't make it make it bad, and something normal can be bad, it's normal for Humans to be greedy, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing...
Or in this case, since neither of these things are really so much worse or better than the other, a fitting analogy would be that most people like wearing their Shoes inside, but there's some who like wearing Socks or Slippers...

And yes, I did just write that entire paragraph after the first sentence to emphasize that I'm not Homophobic.
 

Johny64

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I agree but i can't keep from thinking: Often, doesn't the interpretations and examples in the media set a standard in everyday life. Not to be offensive or anything, but if this were to go to far, than we would see a drastic decline in re-population in the country if homosexual characters had a large influence on the medium and heterosexuals became the minority. I'm not trying to be homophobic here, just sayin'
 

Casual Shinji

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I hate to say this, but gay characters have hardly ever worked in any movie/TV show I've seen unless it's specifically about their sexuality.

Hollywood just doesn't seem to be able to write gay characters in casual situations. So I really doubt that writers of children's cartoons are up to the challenge.
 

Erana

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I know people who were shot around here for being the wrong kind of Christian. A huge part of America isn't particularly interested in any depiction of homosexuality.


Yes, the creators confirmed him being gay.

I do find Hey Arnold a great example of how to deal with these sorts of things. They rightfully didn't point out that, say, Helga's mom was an alcholic, they implied it, and the only people who understood the reason for her lethargy and apparent fixation on "Smoothies" were kids it applied to (Thanks Dad) or the older audience. I find that's typically the most mature way to handle real-world and adult issues in children's shows.
 

Feralcentaur

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Doctor Glocktor said:
Isn't Spongebob gay?
He's a Sponge, Sponges have no genders... although I'm not sure about Star fish...
Kipohippo said:
I never said it was bad. Homosexuality is just not normal, it is somewhat rare compared to hetrosexuality. Would majority/minority be better wording?
...So you're saying minorities shouldn't be shown in kids shows?